Fusion-12 + BFM Tuba 24 for DJ'ing? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 08-15-2014, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Fusion-12 + BFM Tuba 24 for DJ'ing?

Hi,

I'm helping out a friend who is a DJ from Denmark and he is interested in building a portable rig for DJ'ing at smaller parties (max 200 people indoors). He mainly plays techno and house but also soul and funk. I have been looking for a setup that would work for both DJ'ing and for his studio. As he’s on a limited budget, my idea is to start with building the tops and then eventually supplement the system with subs.

The Fusion-12 Tempest has peaked my interest as they seem to be able to work both with and without subs, depending on the size of the party and music style of course. For subs I have been thinking about building 2 x BFM Tuba 24 (16” wide with Kappa Pro 10LF) and V-couple them to be used as base for a DJ stand.

When the time comes for adding the subs, I am thinking about adding another stereo power amp to the system and use a miniDSP 2x4 for active XO.

What do you think about this setup? Will a pair of Fusion-12s work well with two Tuba 24s? What would you recommend for amps? Any other concerns?

Thanks for your help.

Soren
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-15-2014, 07:00 AM
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Short answer: Bad idea.

Long answer: If you upgraded the XO parts to higher power parts and were prepared to replace the occasional compression driver, then you'd be ok. And they'd certainly sound better than any similar PA offering.

You will need to high pass the speaker around 50hz until you get the subs. And this isn't gonna sound good with that type of music.
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-15-2014, 03:32 PM
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Tell him to buy a pair of these: http://www.thomann.de/gb/ev_zlx_12p.htm and add this sub. http://www.thomann.de/gb/ev_elx_118p.htm That would give a great easy to set up system.

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post #4 of 17 Old 08-15-2014, 03:41 PM
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I suspect it would be too little even for a R&R bandwidth that extended no lower than 40Hz. This is based upon my experience of running small club systems.
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so you wouldn’t recommend the Fusion-12 for this application? What If the passive XOs were made with high power components and the Tuba subs were built from the beginning and added with an active XO? Would there still be a risk of blowing the compression drivers, i.e. are the Fusion-12s not powerful enough compared to the Tubas? By the way, the voltage limit for the Kappa Pro 10LF in a Tuba 24 is 45V. Is there a voltage limit for a Fusion-12?

If the Fusion-12 isn’t recommendable, what would be a good sounding DIY alternative for the tops? I’m eager to build something myself, but only if it could compete with the prices of some of the commercial speakers. For the same money spent, wouldn’t it be possible to build something better than e.g. the EV speakers that Manic1! linked to? That setup costs €1,250, which is about $1,675.

Thanks.
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren5 View Post
what would be a good sounding DIY alternative for the tops?
Jack 10, if you want tops that can be occasionally be used without subs. Or Jack 12s, but if you need that much top then you should go with a bigger subs, like the T30 or T39. You should ask on Bills forum, thats where to chat with guys who use his systems.
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Jack 10, if you want tops that can be occasionally be used without subs. Or Jack 12s, but if you need that much top then you should go with a bigger subs, like the T30 or T39. You should ask on Bills forum, thats where to chat with guys who use his systems.
I posted here as I thought I would get less biased opinions compared to the BFM or DIY Sound Group forum. But if BFM is the way to go for tops as well, then I will post over there.

Thanks for your help
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post #8 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 07:35 AM
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Lots of different top options. Some expensive and some are not.(BFM) Some subwoofer designs also only play down to 45hz while others can play down to 32hz. So lots of variables in others making suggestions for you.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Lots of different top options. Some expensive and some are not.(BFM) Some subwoofer designs also only play down to 45hz while others can play down to 32hz. So lots of variables in others making suggestions for you.
Thanks for the input.

I think I'm pretty much set on the Tuba 24s. It seems they are the most portable DIY subs that will work for recorded music with content below 40 Hz.

Please let me know if you have suggestions for DIY tops that will match these subs and that can also be used without subs for the occasional smaller parties or when DJ’ing at weddings where the music style doesn’t necessarily require subs.

Thanks.
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post #10 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 07:57 AM
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There aren't many DIY plans for PA type speakers because the PA market pretty much has it covered. Unlike hifi where good speakers come with insanely inflated prices (not all). Or the speaker type is rare (waveguide hifi speakers are rare in the commercial world).

I'd check out pro sound web and see what those guys think.
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post #11 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 08:21 AM
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I thought the Behringer 215 was a big hit for value and sound. Not saying there Hifi but may fit your application.
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post #12 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
There aren't many DIY plans for PA type speakers because the PA market pretty much has it covered. Unlike hifi where good speakers come with insanely inflated prices
Google dB Technologies, one example of insane pricing in the PA genre. Or Funktion-One.
It's true that there are many cheap PA options, but just like cheap hifi/HT speakers that's exactly how they sound. The bang for the buck factor in pro-sound DIY is no less significant than that in hifi/HT.

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post #13 of 17 Old 08-16-2014, 11:58 AM
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Well I can't disagree with that Bill especially subs in the PA world. Yours are good value I expect. Commercial subs aren't cheap. But a cheap pair of speakers ($750) will do a weekend warrior dj fairly well I think. I do think DIY wins in both scenarios because you get a higher quality product, provided you can build it high quality.
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post #14 of 17 Old 09-30-2014, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Short answer: Bad idea.

Long answer: If you upgraded the XO parts to higher power parts and were prepared to replace the occasional compression driver, then you'd be ok. And they'd certainly sound better than any similar PA offering.

You will need to high pass the speaker around 50hz until you get the subs. And this isn't gonna sound good with that type of music.
What about the 4pi's with upgraded drivers?
You still think the CD is the limiting factor? It uses the same one so I suppose your answer would be the same...
I only ask because I was planning on doing the same for a friend, but not nearly 200 people, and I figured the pi's with the 2226 might be better suited.

Last edited by Thatsnasty; 09-30-2014 at 01:24 AM.
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post #15 of 17 Old 09-30-2014, 04:47 AM
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Erich has big JBL compression drivers on sale or available for pennies on the dollar. These are $850 pro models. Comes with waveguides. They should take a beating and do well for your application.
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post #16 of 17 Old 09-30-2014, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Short answer: Bad idea.

Long answer: If you upgraded the XO parts to higher power parts and were prepared to replace the occasional compression driver, then you'd be ok. And they'd certainly sound better than any similar PA offering.

You will need to high pass the speaker around 50hz until you get the subs. And this isn't gonna sound good with that type of music.
What about the 4pi's with upgraded drivers?
You still think the CD is the limiting factor? It uses the same one so I suppose your answer would be the same...
I only ask because I was planning on doing the same for a friend, but not nearly 200 people, and I figured the pi's with the 2226 might be better suited.
The 4 Pi uses the same tweeter afaik, but I haven't looked closely at that design. The 2226 is more capable than the delta 12 in the tempest, but there's 15" SEOS models if you can go that size. The issue is more the CD. In these speakers they cross really low for home use. But in the PA world they'd get destroyed.

I did a PA job with a SEOS design of mine but I crossed around 1700hz to a pair of celestion ftr12-3070c. Did quite well. But the XO was specifically thought out for high SPL. No baffle step compensation. Not a razor smooth frequency response. Not a complex XO and it used high wattage resistors.
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post #17 of 17 Old 09-30-2014, 02:00 PM
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I paid $1100 for a pair of new powered RCF 10 inch speakers and $600 for a used powered Yorkville LS720 15 inch sub. System is light weight and easy to set up. Somtimes DIY is not the way to go.
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