MartySub FAQ - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 485 Old 08-18-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elitecrewman View Post
I'll be able to post up a few when I start that part. My box is just in need of bracing and the front baffle to be complete.

I've only got one sub right now, would have had waf issues if I got a second one right away. But I'll try it on one channel and if I want more I can run the amp bridged.
Which one do you have?
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post #32 of 485 Old 08-18-2014, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronlinkous View Post
which one do you have?
X4000 amp. Minimarty box.
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post #33 of 485 Old 08-18-2014, 04:29 PM
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Here's some pics of my down firing martycube that Donny made for me.
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post #34 of 485 Old 08-18-2014, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elitecrewman View Post
X4000 amp. Minimarty box.
Ok cool, thats the same combo that Im looking at. Are you running the SI? I was looking at the UM18 but haven't really decided.
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post #35 of 485 Old 08-18-2014, 05:35 PM
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It seems like an x4000 + minidsp would run two si ht18d4 about as well as an inuke 3000dsp with arguably better build quality and less need for modification (looks/lights/fans)?
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post #36 of 485 Old 08-18-2014, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horfcha View Post
It seems like an x4000 + minidsp would run two si ht18d4 about as well as an inuke 3000dsp with arguably better build quality and less need for modification (looks/lights/fans)?
Yea, but you'd want the D2 for an extra 350w per channel.
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Originally Posted by aaronlinkous View Post
Ok cool, thats the same combo that Im looking at. Are you running the SI? I was looking at the UM18 but haven't really decided.
I've got a SI18D4.
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post #37 of 485 Old 08-18-2014, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elitecrewman View Post
Yea, but you'd want the D2 for an extra 350w per channel.
I already bought the d4 anticipating the inuke as being the only cost-effective option
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post #38 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horfcha View Post
I already bought the d4 anticipating the inuke as being the only cost-effective option
I think you could still consider a Peavey IPR 5000 as a cost-effective option. You can run two drivers per channel.
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post #39 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 12:46 AM
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q: my amp doesn't have binding posts, wtf is a speakon, how do i wire that?


a:


feel free to rephrase my q & a. ;-)


also, while dated now, the original martysub post may be worth referencing:


Large Ported Dayton HO18's


q: who is marty?


a: martycool007, an avs member, whose request for building a relatively simple sub with maximum performance and bang for the buck started the whole thing.


i'll definitely kick in some more over time...


great work Donny!

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post #40 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 01:56 AM
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q: full size marty (which is ~11 cubic feet net internal volume tuned to 17hz), which driver to use?


a: uxl claims it can take 2000 watts, so that is the black line.
green line is stereo integrity ht18 with 1100 watts
red line (very similar to green) is Dayton rs460h0 with 1100 watts
blue line is Dayton um18 with 1100 watts.


the um has lower upper end sensitivity because of its greater mass. it may be able to take more power than 1100 watts, but we'll have to wait and see.


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post #41 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:00 AM
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q: I want a protective high pass filter at 16hz, but the inuke only goes down to 20hz, what to do?


a: Another LTD02 Designed Sub Build
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post #42 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:07 AM
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q: what is a "protective high pass" and do I need one?


a: it filters out the frequencies BELOW the filter point and allows the frequencies ABOVE the filter to PASS. that is why it is called a HIGH PASS.


in a ported cab, below the tuning frequency, the cone motion is acting more or less as though the driver is in 'free air'. there is very little resistive force on the driver and it will flop around all over the place creating massive distortion and potentially damaging itself.


this is cone motion of the subs shown above. note below about 16hz cone motion shoots through the roof, goes way past xmax, and could be damaging.





here are the same drivers with a 16hz high pass in place:





with the protective high pass filter in place, the cone motion no longer explodes and the system remains well behaved even at extreme output.
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post #43 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:16 AM
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q: should I get D2 or D4 if there is an option?


a: it depends on the amp. many folks run the inuke 3000dsp or the 6000dsp. the 3000dsp can handle a 2 ohm load per channel (that's really pushing it, but it can do it) and the 6000 can handle a 4 ohm load per channel (again, that's really pushing it, but it can do it).


with the 3000dsp, the d4 drivers are a good choice. each driver can be wired in parallel for 2 ohms. and then one driver connected to each channel. the amp will supply approx. 1100 watts or so to each driver in this configuration.


with the 6000dsp, the d4 drivers are again a good choice because they can be wired in series for 8 ohms per driver. one driver per channel produces about 1100 watts to each driver. HOWEVER, this configuration is much less taxing on the amp.


if you are only going to get one driver, and want to run the 3000dsp, grab a D2 and wire it in series for 4 ohms. then run it in bridged mode on the 3000dsp. that will give up to 2200 watts (which you can back down to 1100 with the limiter). HOWEVER, this configuration is much less taxing on the amp than running one driver on each channel at 2 ohms.
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post #44 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:24 AM
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q: I got a speakon and am used to red/black speaker wire, wtf is 1+ 1- 2+ 2-, I'm confused?!?


a: when running one driver on each channel in NON-BRIDGED MODE, 1+ and 1- will be used. 1+ gets connected to the positive/red on the sub and 1- gets connected to the negative/black on the sub. in NON-BRIDGED MODE 2+ and 2- are NOT used.


when running the amp in BRIDGED MODE, 1+ and 2+ will be used and the cable will go in Channel A. the amp must be set to "bridged mode" (this effectively reverses the polarity of the 2+ terminal into a negative but instead of 0/ground voltage it produces the 'negative version' of what is going to the positive terminal thus doubling the overall voltage output, which increases power by a factor of 4). 1+ goes to the positive/red on the driver and 2+ goes to the negative/black on the driver.
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post #45 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:36 AM
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q: I like a particular marty sub, but want a different form factor, can I just change the shape?


a: yes and no. if the internal volume of the sub is kept the same, and the cross-sectional area of the port is kept the same, and the length of the port is kept the same, then the sub will pretty much perform the same no matter what shape you cook up, which way the port fires, or which face of the sub you mount the driver on.


so if you choose a full size marty with ~11 cubic and a slot port that is 3" tall and 22.5" wide (24"minus to slot braces at 0.75" each) and 36" long, the cross-sectional area of the port is 3" * 22.5" = 67.5 square inches. so if you want to make the port 18" wide, then it would be 67.5 / 18 = 3.75" tall x 36" long.


also, if the port is an inch or two too long or too short, it won't make a material difference.
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post #46 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:41 AM
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q: how do I model a martysub?


a: grab a copy of winisd. if using windows 7, go here: https://www.facebook.com/Winisd

to enter thiele small parameters for a driver (aka t/s specs):
make sure all fields are clear, then
enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material
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post #47 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:42 AM
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q: why is the spacing all screwed up on so many of your posts?


a: I have no idea. :-)
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post #48 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 02:51 AM
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q: who is neodan?


a: many years ago, there was a forum member, neodan, who created a line of subwoofers that he called the "easy button" subs. they were meant to be large, low-tuned, bang-for-the-buck type subs. when we cooked up the design for the original martysub, I had long forgotten about the "easy button" line. upon rediscovering his subs though and how similar the martysubs were to his, I feel that he should get some sort of mention. here is one of his subs: Easy Button End Table MAX 26.5" x 24" x 37.5" hwd
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post #49 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 03:00 AM
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q: is there a sealed marty sub?


a: there are no stupid questions but that one.


ok, maybe that question isn't stupid either. :-)


here is the same driver with 1100 watts in a sealed cabinet (blue) vs. a martysub (red).


the martysub has about 12db more spl around the tuning frequency than the sealed sub.


when you double subs and amp power, you get +6db in the ideal case. when you quadruple subs and power, you get +12db in the ideal case.


the large ported subs simply offers the most bass for the money if you have the space for the large enclosures. not everybody does and not everybody cares about bang for the buck. it is all a tradeoff. the martysubs generally trade off larger size for more bass at the lowest possible cost while remaining a relatively simple build.


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post #50 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 03:06 AM
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q: what are the drawbacks to using a pro amp?


a: they may have connectors that you are not familiar with, they may have noisy fans, and they may have bright annoying lights.


connectors on the input side tend to be XLR instead of the typical RCA cables that you may be used to. simple converter cables are available.


connectors on the speaker side tend to be SPEAKON instead of binding posts/spades/banana plugs/etc. there is a question above how to wire up speakons.


some amps, such as the inuke's and the cerwin vega have noisy fans. there are 'fan mods' that are relatively simple and effective if the amp must be in the same room as the listener.
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post #51 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 03:15 AM
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q: why are there aliens all over the place in martysub discussions?


a: I don't know, just seemed appropriate. this evening I did notice that if a martian had a sub, it would probably be called a 'marti-sub', so perhaps there is a connection. ack ack - ack ack ack ack - ack ack - ack ack - ack. :-)


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post #52 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronlinkous View Post
Basement, are you sure on your last graph? You have the SI 18 in the Micro cube, but Donny has the 15" Dayton listed as what he uses. Just saying for consistency, it might be best to model that one with the other driver.

But I don't know anything about these subwoofers

Also, @chalugadp , Can you include the common wattage/parallel/series methods for the subs? For example, I know I probably won't be getting the inuke so if I knew that I needed x wattage wired in y to give me a z load, that would be really helpful just so I can match it up. Also, don't something these guys need a filter added to protect them?
The last graph is a direct comparison between the different sized boxes, so the driver has to be consistent between them to show the difference. There is already a graph of the 15" dayton being compared to the other subs so that's already covered.




Remember: you can add 6 dB to any of the graphs to show what having two of the subs will be like. So basically having 2 SI 18 is identical to having 1 UXL 18. The dual SI gives room smothing, but takes up more space and the boxes take longer to build.
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post #53 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 06:39 AM
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Great Post LTD !

...Is the Inuke6000 also good for 4 SI18D4 , 2 per channel @ 4ohm load ?
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post #54 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by randyc1 View Post
Great Post LTD !

...Is the Inuke6000 also good for 4 SI18D4 , 2 per channel @ 4ohm load ?
ya
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post #55 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 07:07 AM
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2 taller ones are full marty (last 2 pics), other 2 are vertical mini marty (first 2 pics). Chalug I assume you used ultralite MDF on the full marty's you built me. I used normal MDF from lowe's and wow what a difference. I noticed it the first time I picked up the boards....took me forever to figure out why yours were so much lighter. I kept measuring the width of the sheets thinking they had to be 1/2" or something. Then stumbled across ultralite being discussed in Tux's thread when I figured that was what was used. Anyhow long story short..ultralite vs standard MDF is extremely noticeable in weight. I feel like I could easily pick up that full marty if it wasn't so hard to get my arms around where that vertical mini marty is a little tank.







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post #56 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 07:13 AM
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If you cut your terminal holes (whatever connector type your using for the cab) before you assemble everything, make sure you align your back board properly, as you can see in the 4th pic (was the first cab I was assembling) I didn't really think about it until I put the port boards on....they are covering the holes for the connector....oops!
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post #57 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyc1 View Post
Great Post LTD !

...Is the Inuke6000 also good for 4 SI18D4 , 2 per channel @ 4ohm load ?

You can't use two SI 18D4's on a single channel as a 4ohm load, you'd have to run them in series as a 8ohm load. If you run them parallel that would be a 2ohm load and the iNuke 6000 isn't 2ohm stable.


You could power two SI 18D2's per channel of an iNuke 6000 in series as a 4ohm load though.


**EDIT**


Sorry I forgot that the SI 18's have dual voice coils. You can use two SI18D4's per channel of an iNuke 6000 because two of them are a 4ohm load.

Last edited by jbrown15; 08-19-2014 at 05:26 PM.
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post #58 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 08:54 AM
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The lightweight MDF is noticeably lighter, but also weaker. I would not recommend trying to attach any 18 to the lightweight stuff without some additional means of holding the screw/bolt. There are numerous threads on different means to accomplish this with lots of different opinions.

One thing I wish I did when I assembled mine was wire both voice coils to the terminal mounted on the box. This way if you ever need to rewire the voice coils you can just take off the terminal and fix it there. Even if you're wiring in series, you could run a separate wire from each terminal on the speaker to the box mounted terminal and just connect those two wires to each other, and zip tie them to the terminal somehow. If you want to change to parallel wiring, just remove the terminal cup/speakon and fix it. Eliminating the need to remove the speaker.
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post #59 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
The lightweight MDF is noticeably lighter, but also weaker. I would not recommend trying to attach any 18 to the lightweight stuff without some additional means of holding the screw/bolt. There are numerous threads on different means to accomplish this with lots of different opinions.

One thing I wish I did when I assembled mine was wire both voice coils to the terminal mounted on the box. This way if you ever need to rewire the voice coils you can just take off the terminal and fix it there. Even if you're wiring in series, you could run a separate wire from each terminal on the speaker to the box mounted terminal and just connect those two wires to each other, and zip tie them to the terminal somehow. If you want to change to parallel wiring, just remove the terminal cup/speakon and fix it. Eliminating the need to remove the speaker.
Samps can you show me the info where the light MDF is weaker? I didn't see that info in the discussion I saw about it, most were thinking it was indeed the same strength. I did put blocks behind my screw points regardless on all 4 of them.
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post #60 of 485 Old 08-19-2014, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
One thing I wish I did when I assembled mine was wire both voice coils to the terminal mounted on the box. This way if you ever need to rewire the voice coils you can just take off the terminal and fix it there. Even if you're wiring in series, you could run a separate wire from each terminal on the speaker to the box mounted terminal and just connect those two wires to each other, and zip tie them to the terminal somehow. If you want to change to parallel wiring, just remove the terminal cup/speakon and fix it. Eliminating the need to remove the speaker.
One thought that occurred to me was to wire one voice coil to the +-1 terminals, and the other voice coil to the +-2 terminals, and then wire the connector in the cable for series or parallel. Just label the cable appropriately so it's used on the correct speaker.
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