A center for a wide viewing area, matching L/R? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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A center for a wide viewing area, matching L/R?

Can I get a couple pointers for selecting L/C/R to build? Most of my seating is most of the seating is +- 30 degrees from the center of the TV, but a couple seats are more like 45 degrees over. I don't care if the side seats have perfect hi-fi surround sound, but I want them to be usable, i.e., clear dialog without weird nulls making sound unintelligible. So I figure any horizontal MTM design for a center is right out. The TV is a 62" Toshiba DLP, and the center speaker would have to go above/on top of it.

I'm debating these options:

1099 L/R, 88 Special Center
1099 L/R, Phantom Center
88 Special L/C/R
Tempest L/R, 88 Special Center


So my real concerns are:

The 1099 is a favorite for overall sound quality, do I lose anything by having a different center?
If I go for the 88 center, should I stick with Tempests or 88 for L/R to have the same compression driver and designer voicing the speaker?
Does anyone have any critical listening comments on the 88? There hasn't been a ton of feedback on it yet.
Anyone have an opinion on phantom centers, with toed-in fronts?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 11:41 AM
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1) You may notice a difference you may not with a different center. Many SEOS speakers seem to be voiced similarly and I rarely hear complaints about those who mix the center.
Personally I would just keep LCR the same but to each his own.

2) If you are set on the 88 special then getting them for L and R seems like a good idea. They're made by Jeff Bagby, handle tons of power, are pretty efficient, and are one of the few designs using the SEOS-15.
They seem like a winner and I'm actually surprised we don't hear more about them, probably because they are fairly new and everyone seems to stick with Tux's speakers / the Tempests. Not to take away from them.

3) I have 3x 4pi loudspeakers with the DNA-360 and JBL-2226 upgraded parts. The L + R are ported and the center sealed, purely for aesthetics. I actually haven't used the center since the day I built it simply because without an ideal center position ( my tv is sitting on top of it ) phantom center is just simply better. The sound stage is SWEET.
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post #3 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 12:08 PM
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Phantom center is probably terrible for the side people. fine for the near center.

Need to see the polar plots to know about the 88 special.

The 1099 nulls out at about 45deg so not good center for your need
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post #4 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 02:57 PM
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[QUOTE=rhodesj;26734786]Can I get a couple pointers for selecting L/C/R to build? Most of my seating is most of the seating is +- 30 degrees from the center of the TV, but a couple seats are more like 45 degrees over. I don't care if the side seats have perfect hi-fi surround sound, but I want them to be usable, i.e., clear dialog without weird nulls making sound unintelligible. So I figure any horizontal MTM design for a center is right out. The TV is a 62" Toshiba DLP, and the center speaker would have to go above/on top of it.

I'm debating these options:

1099 L/R, 88 Special Center
1099 L/R, Phantom Center
88 Special L/C/R
Tempest L/R, 88 Special Center

My vote is first to make identical speakers for all 3. All the speakers you have selected are good choices and will perform well for you.

The 1099 is a real favorite on this forum, so is the Tempest. Folks love these designs.
I built 3 of the 88's and just love em! I have been doing DIY for 20 years now and 88's are the real deal.
I went with the 88's over the 1099's for several reasons.
The 88's were available and ready to be shipped.
The 88's cost a little less about $300 less for all three.
The sound stage spreads across the entire room, every seat is the sweet spot. Very little toe in required.
I cross my LCR speakers over at 100hz in my theater so bass reproduction is not really an issue for my LCR. No need to go with larger woofers or a larger enclosure.

For the life of me I can't figure out why the 88's have not taken off yet I love mine that much.
They put the local theaters to shame, they really are that much better.

I am delighted DIYers like us have so many good choices to choose from.
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post #5 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 03:11 PM
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I think I'd agree with the above and go with 3 88s. I think the shape of the 88 might be what holds people back on it.
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post #6 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
I think I'd agree with the above and go with 3 88s. I think the shape of the 88 might be what holds people back on it.

I know your 1099 sound Awesome Tux !, I heard them a Fatshaft's, but I actually hope you come up with a Smaller design someday , something a little more room freindly ?
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post #7 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 07:31 PM
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Well the 1099 is a pretty manageable size. It's pretty tall though when raise up to ear level. I think that's the biggest draw back. It surprises people when they see its size though. They usually expect much bigger.

I designed the Fusion 10, but it's not as good as the 1099, for obvious reasons (only one woofer and no mids).
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post #8 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by randyc1 View Post
I know your 1099 sound Awesome Tux !, I heard them a Fatshaft's, but I actually hope you come up with a Smaller design someday , something a little more room freindly ?
I think its reasonably room friendly. You could keep it at 36" and lean it back so it hits at ear height.
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post #9 of 14 Old 08-20-2014, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
I think I'd agree with the above and go with 3 88s. I think the shape of the 88 might be what holds people back on it.
It definitely looks better behind an at screen
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post #10 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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The 88 is definitely a bit of a weird shape. I'm going to have to figure out how they'll fit in the room... With proper toe-in and the speaker being 21" wide, the left speaker in particular would be sticking out into the room right at the stairs and hallway coming into the den. Plus it needs a pretty tall stand... 28 inches perhaps.

I might have to make a cardboard mockup just to lay it out.

Last edited by rhodesj; 08-21-2014 at 06:06 AM.
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 06:54 AM
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The 88-Special was function over beauty.


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

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post #12 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
The 88-Special was function over beauty.
No kidding. I still remember this from the Rallying thread

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post #13 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
The 88 is definitely a bit of a weird shape. I'm going to have to figure out how they'll fit in the room... With proper toe-in and the speaker being 21" wide, the left speaker in particular would be sticking out into the room right at the stairs and hallway coming into the den. Plus it needs a pretty tall stand... 28 inches perhaps.

I might have to make a cardboard mockup just to lay it out.
What drew me to the 88's was the weird shape and the performance.
I saw these B&W's and just fell in love and wanted them.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speake...T7-3-LCRS.html
The cost to outfit my theater was going to cost about 6k to outfit and that was too much for me.

The 88's were the DIY solution that allowed me to achieve the performance I wantedat I price I could afford right now. I was drawn to B&W CT7 because I wanted more dynamics and volume to fill my large theater space. The 88's provide all the dynamics and volume any sane person can handle. That could be said about all the DIY options you are considering.
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post #14 of 14 Old 08-21-2014, 08:39 PM
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88 Special Form Factor

I really want the performance of the 88 special but it is just too tall for the setup in my living room. Could there be possibility of a design change in the future? Let's hope!
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