The Undertaker- Two Nearfield SI HST-18's - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
John from AE has always told everyone this also. Unfortunately all the big PR's are gone. 21"

Nick how much does the HST weigh?
62lbs.

Source.
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post #62 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 04:04 AM
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Wow .......all I had to do was look at the other thread. Sorry about that.
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post #63 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 06:19 AM
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With as much throw as the HST, you'd probably want four 18" PRs lol. The Stryke HE15 and tumult (also 15") both had around 35 or so inch of throw and people used a pair of 18" PRs with those.

...unless SI happened to make new PRS with more displacement than the AE ones, which I think is unlikely.
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post #64 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
F**k yeah.

Lol and yeah that's two PR's. A general rule of thumb is that with a liked-sized PR to the active driver (ie: 18's with 18's, 15's with 15's) and like-displacement total is to double up on PR's. If you don't you will most certainly use up all the throw on the PR's, fast! You can even quadruple but the tune shifts up. This may not be bad but if it shifts up too much then the tune is too high for liking. You counter this by adding mass (this one of the elements of tuning PR's) but at some point you reach it's maximum capacity. No free lunch.

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That is a pretty mean looking graph. Just dirty.... I have some other projects I am taking care of around the house but hope to have them almost complete this evening, when I will be turning my full focus to the theater (and box) for the next couple evenings. Looking forward to enhoying some content, and making sawdust again I still haven't gotten a chance to measure, but will likely get to that this evening. I would really like to get this PR thing to work, but space, and $500 worth of PR's is a little rough. I need a new screen first priorities...

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post #65 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 08:06 AM
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post #66 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I thought I was the only person who still posts on the forums who knew about this rule. It is a definite rule and I see more and more companies [and people] trying to go around with with zero success. You MUST have higher Sd on your PR than your active driver. Good post Scott.
Aww, thanks.

Quote:
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With as much throw as the HST, you'd probably want four 18" PRs lol.
Saaayyyy....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post
...unless SI happened to make new PRS with more displacement than the AE ones, which I think is unlikely.
The market has just been opened.
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post #67 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Dang that last graph is 4 PR's for a single HST?

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post #68 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 08:28 AM
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Yup.

It could be tuned slightly lower even but give up about 1dB of output. Maybe 2dB.

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post #69 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
John from AE has always told everyone this also. Unfortunately all the big PR's are gone. 21"

Nick how much does the HST weigh?
I believe I read 62 lbs somewhere in the thread.
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post #70 of 397 Old 08-26-2014, 03:39 PM
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Yes thanks. Popalock responded with that information in the above post.
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post #71 of 397 Old 08-28-2014, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post
With as much throw as the HST, you'd probably want four 18" PRs lol. The Stryke HE15 and tumult (also 15") both had around 35 or so inch of throw and people used a pair of 18" PRs with those.

...unless SI happened to make new PRS with more displacement than the AE ones, which I think is unlikely.
I think it is likely that I can make a PR with more displacement than the AE PR's. Same profile cone/surround used as the HST 18" driver and you have a massive displacement PR. Stretching the limits of the surround and spider you have at least 4" of travel.

I also have 24" PR's available with over 5" of stroke capability.

If anyone is interested in anything mentioned in this thread simply email me at htsales@stereointegrity.com. I'm game for making some pretty wicked stuff.

Last edited by Electrodynamic; 08-28-2014 at 09:08 PM.
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post #72 of 397 Old 08-28-2014, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
62lbs.

Source.
In raw form. Shipping weight is slightly over 70 lbs each in big 20x20x16" shipping boxes.
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post #73 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 12:38 AM
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Will this be similar packaging like the 24's? Zip ties and particle board or whatever?
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post #74 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I am looking at what I can do here, and see only the ability to utilize 2 PR's if at all. All the PR's would be on the front of the box with the regular drivers as I want this box to appear almost like a "bar" to sit in front on the second row. having both HST's inside firing into the front couch, with the PR's as the two outer cones. the box is only going to be 15" deep, so I can't stick anything on the sides. I am not sure if 2 PR's is even worth it vs just traditional sealed.

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post #75 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post
I think it is likely that I can make a PR with more displacement than the AE PR's. Same profile cone/surround used as the HST 18" driver and you have a massive displacement PR. Stretching the limits of the surround and spider you have at least 4" of travel.

I also have 24" PR's available with over 5" of stroke capability.

If anyone is interested in anything mentioned in this thread simply email me at htsales@stereointegrity.com. I'm game for making some pretty wicked stuff.
I'm not sure if the world is ready but we are.

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post #76 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 08:54 AM
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Guys,
What would you put in my wall? 178 cubes.


3-24's
4-HST 18's
12-18ht's
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post #77 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'm not sure if the world is ready but we are.

Scott, what do ya think about only 2 pr's. Keep in mind this is a nearfield box, so crazy output won't be required of the HST's....Oh how am I kidding. I will test its capabilities to the fullest....haha

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post #78 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 09:17 AM
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Guys,
What would you put in my wall? 178 cubes.


3-24's
4-HST 18's
12-18ht's
Option 4: Keep your current Fi's, seal up the new-ish ports and pocket a ton of cash.

But if you just can't help it then I'd personally go with twelve of the 18ht's. Lot's more motor and surface area than the other two.

Quote:
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Scott, what do ya think about only 2 pr's. Keep in mind this is a nearfield box, so crazy output won't be required of the HST's....Oh how am I kidding. I will test its capabilities to the fullest....haha
I've modeled at least two or three PR systems for you using 2 PR's each. Do you mean to use two PR's for two HST18's? I would not recommend that.

Also I see you mentioned something along the lines of using this cab as a bar or something? If this is some form of table to put drinks or other objects then this may not be a great idea if you plan to have the PR's on one side and the active driver in another position. It's a great practice to dual oppose PR's. Massive mass moving back and forth. Much MUCH higher mass than something like an LMSU, XXX18 or HST18. A lot more. Get ready for that cab to dance.

Lay out some more details. I'd love to help you out with this.

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post #79 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post
I think it is likely that I can make a PR with more displacement than the AE PR's. Same profile cone/surround used as the HST 18" driver and you have a massive displacement PR. Stretching the limits of the surround and spider you have at least 4" of travel.

I also have 24" PR's available with over 5" of stroke capability.

If anyone is interested in anything mentioned in this thread simply email me at htsales@stereointegrity.com. I'm game for making some pretty wicked stuff.

There you go Beast.

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post #80 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 09:36 AM
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I also have 24" PR's available with over 5" of stroke capability.
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post #81 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Option 4: Keep your current Fi's, seal up the new-ish ports and pocket a ton of cash.

But if you just can't help it then I'd personally go with twelve of the 18ht's. Lot's more motor and surface area than the other two.



I've modeled at least two or three PR systems for you using 2 PR's each. Do you mean to use two PR's for two HST18's? I would not recommend that.

Also I see you mentioned something along the lines of using this cab as a bar or something? If this is some form of table to put drinks or other objects then this may not be a great idea if you plan to have the PR's on one side and the active driver in another position. It's a great practice to dual oppose PR's. Massive mass moving back and forth. Much MUCH higher mass than something like an LMSU, XXX18 or HST18. A lot more. Get ready for that cab to dance.

Lay out some more details. I'd love to help you out with this.

Nope, all drivers and PR's would all be on the front side of the box like this [OOOO] with the PR's outside and hst's inside. But yea, that is the only way I could fit them, and fit the box where it would need to go. something like 80x28x15. I guess I could squeeze 2 more on the sides if I went 18 inches deep with the box, but wasn't really looking to do any deeper. 15" deep is already stretching it.

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post #82 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
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Nope, all drivers and PR's would all be on the front side of the box like this [OOOO] with the PR's outside and hst's inside. But yea, that is the only way I could fit them, and fit the box where it would need to go. something like 80x28x15. I guess I could squeeze 2 more on the sides if I went 18 inches deep with the box, but wasn't really looking to do any deeper. 15" deep is already stretching it.
Then I would highly recommend against it. PRs throw tons of mass around and you really need the dual opposed alignment, especially when we are talking about the mass you'd use on these 18" systems.
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post #83 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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The PR's would move opposite the operational drivers though, so wouldn't the two offset if they were to be on the same face of the box?

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post #84 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 10:43 AM
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Nope. They still gonna dance real good.

The active drivers do not have the same mass and the PR's will easily outgun them in the 'moving s**t arena'.

I have this great anecdote from a few years back visit to CES in Vegas. So every year in the South Hall there is Earthquake audio. I'm sure you are familiar. So they have a couple open booths with speakers playing some lame demo and then they have an open area with scattered gear. Each year though they have one of their subs out with a frequency generator hooked up. One of the reps will come out and playing around with 25-40hz tones and make a racket and shack up stuff. So one time I'm walking by and the guy is just sitting on the sub and he's enjoying himself. He notices me stop and look at him and he says, "these give a GREAT massage!". I smile, walk away and I am still shaking my head in disbelief and amusement.

So that's great. The thing shakes itself up a storm and does a good 30hz. Wow. Color me amazed.


The jist of it is this is your classic example of a poorly engineered subwoofer. The damn thing should not move a g-damn'd inch. That's all wasted energy moving the cab and not producing.... uhhh bass.
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Last edited by Scott Simonian; 08-29-2014 at 10:48 AM.
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post #85 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 10:46 AM
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The 18HST has a moving mass of about 500 grams. a passive radiator can have a moving mass of 1000 to 5000 grams. each. (typically closer to 2200 grams. That's 5lbs being slung back and forth)
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post #86 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 10:46 AM
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at the resonant frequency, the driver will be moving minimally, while the pr's will be moving quite a bit.


also, consider that pr's are typically loaded up with quite a bit of additional mass.
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post #87 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright. I am going to reengineer this thing and see about getting double PR's on each side of box with just the HST drivers on the front. The box was originally going to go on TOP of the riser, but if i put it on the floor that would gain me some more available height to where it would be close, but possible.

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post #88 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 11:06 AM
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So if it's possible (and it sounds like a bit of stretch) increase the dimensions. You can make it really long and narrow and place the PR's dual-opposed on each opposite end then put the HST-18 on top.

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post #89 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 11:13 AM
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This is a dangerous thread. Think pink mist...
The subs themselves sound inexpensive, I need to do more homework.
I love the term "dual opposed", I gotta get me some of that...

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post #90 of 397 Old 08-29-2014, 11:14 AM
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^
So if it's possible (and it sounds like a bit of stretch) increase the dimensions. You can make it really long and narrow and place the PR's dual-opposed on each opposite end then put the HST-18 on top.


would that possibly be a largish up firing "coffee table" re kevings design?

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