Acoustic Elegance may not continue selling to the DIY market? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 10:14 AM
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I agree. DIY'ers should not expect support unless the driver is broken or defective.

PE offers service like that but they are a whole different animal. They just sell the woofers not build them. It's in their best interest to help you figure out how to use their product to boost the demand.

John. You do not have to feel obligated to provide designs and support for us. There are plenty of folks here willing to help/ teach folks.

A disclaimer stating the buyer accepts there is no support beyond repair/ return/ warranty is a very good idea.
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post #32 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
I agree. DIY'ers should not expect support unless the driver is broken or defective.

PE offers service like that but they are a whole different animal. They just sell the woofers not build them. It's in their best interest to help you figure out how to use their product to boost the demand.

John. You do not have to feel obligated to provide designs and support for us. There are plenty of folks here willing to help/ teach folks.

A disclaimer stating the buyer accepts there is no support beyond repair/ return/ warranty is a very good idea.
this is how I feel as well. I have not yet used any AE drivers but really want to in a future project,


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post #33 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 01:27 PM
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There is no money in selling to the DIY market. The list of the number of companies that have tried and failed is long.
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post #34 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
There is no money in selling to the DIY market. The list of the number of companies that have tried and failed is long.
You are correct, but short sighted in your observation in my opinion. Selling drivers to the DIY market has seemed to work for many manufacturers, but supporting the IP to the DIY market never has as you mentioned.

I think the folly comes in the support, not the sale, hence what others said to use a 3rd party, like PE or madisound.

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post #35 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 06:19 PM
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I hope he finds a way to work this out and in some way make the drivers available to anyone who wants them. Heck, if I had to I would buy a kit just to take the driver out if one of mine failed instead of looking for a new design.

I have in my system some of his drivers and subs and still love them after about 6 years. Would not trade them for anything.
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post #36 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 09:03 PM
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People who buy raw drivers ought not to expect any kind of support for them beyond accurate tech specs and parts & labor warranties. I don't understand how people can honestly believe otherwise.
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post #37 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MrHelpful View Post
People who buy raw drivers ought not to expect any kind of support for them beyond accurate tech specs and parts & labor warranties. I don't understand how people can honestly believe otherwise.
Because we live in world were most people expect everything to be given to them and if not, they will throw a fit and do their best to smear the person who did not give it to them. Pretty simple really.
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post #38 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 09:59 PM
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Most of the issues I saw from afar where in production times. I would be pretty annoyed if I was told 4 to 6 weeks and it took double. End of the day its a speaker driver. He's super talented and I'm sure he will figure it out.
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post #39 of 52 Old 09-03-2014, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post
Selling drivers to the DIY market has seemed to work for many manufacturers
Like who?
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post #40 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 12:43 AM
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Read E-myth, fewer SKU (read up about 80-20 rule / pareto principle), keep stock at all times, even if you need to raise cost a little (look at Emotiva moving part of manufacturing to US), standardize everything which can be standardized, get a FAQ, well documented driver specs and info in PDF, make video presentations of all the drivers, talk about their strengths, intended use, ideas etc and put it on every video site out there, post live updates on the website and have the Cart CMS send out automatic notifications to customers. Get liquid and solid financially by taking on help if you don't have the funds yourself. Define your business and learn to say no when people are asking outside the scope of what you're doing. Become a sponsor or participate in a big forum related to your niche and mindle with your customers there, not through email, as your replies will only be effective once.

He is essentially trying to be price/performance leader and give stellar customer service far beyond what customers should expect, both at the same time. This won't work. Since the products are as good as they are, they will stand on their own, he just need to get his house in order and spend more time marketing his value preposition and standardize the order process, logistics, information flow etc. Also look at what miniDSP is doing with their buyers guide etc. They are not perfect, but their approach seems to be working.

Maybe hire a skillful young guy out of business school as a PA to help your business organized?

Best of luck.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not successful (yet), lol.
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post #41 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Why not still sell to DIYers but have them access a store sales page similar to some sites with adult content have, but instead "Click this button if you understand that DIY sales get no design support". And then not answer and tech emails or send a form email back explaining this again. I don't need his support to design speakers.


I would just like to echo this thought, I would love to have AE available as probably my main choice for speakers in the future. I do not need support, just the ability to buy your drivers with T/S specs.
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post #42 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 02:12 AM
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fwiw, a key point may be to recognize that anybody who purchases a driver(s) is getting at least as much in return as he is paying for the driver. thus, no additional support/design work/q&a/etc. is required for the buyer to "come out ahead".


if capital is so tight that inventory can't be carried, partnering with a retailer seems like a reasonable option. that way inventory can be available at most all times and that alone will increase sales quite a bit. I'm not sure what retail margins on something like this are, but it would seem that retail pricing wouldn't have to go up all that much (if at all) in this scenario.


best,

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post #43 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
Like who?
I am referring to the availability of drivers from SEAS, Vifa, Scan-Speak, etc that all sell through outside vendors to the DIY community. They have seemingly been doing that a very long time without hiccup. I am sure it doesn't make up much of a portion of their sales, but they still do it.

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post #44 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 01:39 PM
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They also have a huge OEM presence. They are in so many different full products offerings I can't list them all.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #45 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 02:21 PM
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There are a lot of if's and's or but's...we don't really know what it can be. I'm guessing that being the hard working fellow he is that he has a hard time handing over the reigns to anybody to do things from assembly to shipping. He needs to have his hand in it all and it's just the way he does things. Not bashing him just saying.
Now being the spiritually dedicated person I hear he is and having a family I'm sure his better half gives him the death stare when he needs to put together drivers on the weekend instead of spending it with the family.

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post #46 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post
I am referring to the availability of drivers from SEAS, Vifa, Scan-Speak, etc that all sell through outside vendors to the DIY community. They have seemingly been doing that a very long time without hiccup. I am sure it doesn't make up much of a portion of their sales, but they still do it.
The DIY market for them is tiny. When is the last time you have seen a build on this forum using Seas, vifa, or Scan-Speak?
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post #47 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
The DIY market for them is tiny. When is the last time you have seen a build on this forum using Seas, vifa, or Scan-Speak?
look at diy audio all the build are little crummy speakers
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post #48 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
The DIY market for them is tiny. When is the last time you have seen a build on this forum using Seas, vifa, or Scan-Speak?
You're joking right?

AVS is far from the speakerbuilding mecca. There's no shortage of Scanspeak, Seas, Vifa, etc builds out there.

As much as I love loud prosound drivers and horns, those kind of speakers absolutely have their place and it's obvious when you look at what people bring to DIY meets.
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post #49 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post
You're joking right?

AVS is far from the speakerbuilding mecca. There's no shortage of Scanspeak, Seas, Vifa, etc builds out there.

As much as I love loud prosound drivers and horns, those kind of speakers absolutely have their place and it's obvious when you look at what people bring to DIY meets.
It's still small.
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post #50 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
The DIY market for them is tiny. When is the last time you have seen a build on this forum using Seas, vifa, or Scan-Speak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post
You're joking right?

AVS is far from the speakerbuilding mecca. There's no shortage of Scanspeak, Seas, Vifa, etc builds out there.

As much as I love loud prosound drivers and horns, those kind of speakers absolutely have their place and it's obvious when you look at what people bring to DIY meets.
After this next subwoofer build, I plan on working through a fun 3 way design that will be passive using AE midbass (will be close to full rangers) , scanspeak mids (2), and a ribbon or amt of some sort. Think legacy focus type deals, but a horn loaded top end to have a little more directivity.

Look at the Salk offerings for SEAS componentry, Legacy even uses scanspeak products. I have a pair of OLD vifa 6.5's in probably the silliest orientation right now that I built out in college, but they are still being commissioned in my garage and do their job just fine I basically used leftover parts from car audio stuffs and got a decent result that has literally been bulletproof for close to 10 years now. Is it a hi-fidelity bookshelf, heck no, but it very easily could be with some custom XO work and a new tweeter. The old vifa's that used to have the phase plug and the grey coated paper surround are absolute beasts. I don't know how I haven't destroyed them yet but they have persevered through many a night where there was enough beer for everyone's hearing to dissappear and the volume knob get turned to obscene levels and they have absolutely taken every bit of it

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post #51 of 52 Old 09-04-2014, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
It's still small.
Josh never said it was massive.
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post #52 of 52 Old 09-05-2014, 06:00 AM
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It's still small.
That's what she said. And that actually goes to my point. Its like a tiny portion of their business, but they still do it, so there has to be a reason why. It may that selling drivers in 3rd party markets that are also open to DIY'ers increases the ease of access to their real audience which is the mom and pop small outfits that are numerous and drive collectively sales of their drivers. If so, that would be further evidence for AE to do likewise.

More small time manufacturers (read niche) would have reliable access to AE, then they might be more apt to use them.

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