Any cool DIY line array builds ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 10-05-2014, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Any cool DIY line array builds ?

Title ^
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post #2 of 44 Old 10-05-2014, 06:01 PM
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This is not DIY per se but contains a lot of build photos:

http://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1633537
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post #3 of 44 Old 10-05-2014, 06:36 PM
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http://www.selahaudio.com/arrays/
(there are plans to some of these out there and some plans you can buy iirc)
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post #4 of 44 Old 10-05-2014, 07:09 PM
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I have some line arrays i built in my living room. Maxmercy and quite a few others have LA's. To me they are quite impressive.(LA) BUT a great 2 way can be just as impressive. Look at a CBT if your wanting to build one. And as mentioned Rick from Selah audio makes some amazing looking LA's and CBT's.





These are all Ricks builds. Amazing looking. Wish I could have had the middle LA when I first got into DIY. Would have been every happy. In saying that you can build a very impressive LA with very cheap components.
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post #5 of 44 Old 10-06-2014, 04:17 AM
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These have gone through several changes over the last few years. Currently 12 PE buyout mid/woofs and 25 Apex jr tweets in each of 3 cabinets.
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post #6 of 44 Old 10-06-2014, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrank View Post
These have gone through several changes over the last few years. Currently 12 PE buyout mid/woofs and 25 Apex jr tweets in each of 3 cabinets.
Attachment 297218
Very nice
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post #7 of 44 Old 10-06-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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The wisdom audio demo at CEDIA used line arrays and sounded great

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post #8 of 44 Old 10-06-2014, 08:08 AM
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I go down the path of wanting to build LA design every 6 months or so, then in my research I start feeling like the Cons outweigh the Pros and I move on to something else. Though they sure look awesome and that's my allure to them.
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post #9 of 44 Old 10-06-2014, 08:31 AM
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I remember seeing these on the cover of PE catalog a while back, I always thought they looked really cool for a contemporary home setting.
http://www.parts-express.com/project...ay-loudspeaker
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post #10 of 44 Old 10-06-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Well cost sucks, and if you use cheap drivers they sound that way.

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post #11 of 44 Old 10-06-2014, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
if you use cheap drivers they sound that way.
No, they don't. Strength comes with numbers, and if you use a lot of inexpensive drivers they can sound just as good as, if not better than, a few expensive drivers. As is so often the case how you make something can be far more important than what you make it out of. You may use expensive drivers if you wish in line arrays, but the benefit of so doing is far less than when using quality drivers in point sources.
My arrays were made with 79 cent closeout midbasses and 25 cent closeout tweeters, not because I couldn't use more expensive drivers, but because I wanted to know how good a result I could get while spending as little as possible. The result was good enough that years later they're still in my living room.

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post #12 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 04:29 AM
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I have always wanted to own a pair of Line Arrays, just never got around to doing any serious consideration about building a pair. I have heard several nice LA speakers that all used expensive drivers and they absolutely blew me away.

I like the LA's that use ribbons instead of domes. Let's say that someone wants to build a ribbon based LA, how do you know how many drivers to use? Is there a way to estimate or model a specific number of drivers? Something that uses some more affordable ribbons like the Fountek NeoCD2.0 or NeoCD1.0 would be nice!
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post #13 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 06:27 AM
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I like the LA's that use ribbons instead of domes. Let's say that someone wants to build a ribbon based LA, how do you know how many drivers to use?
Enough so that the vertical dispersion patterns at the crossover frequency of the tweeter and midbass line are similar, which means the tweeter line needs to be close to the height of the midbass line. Many designs use only one or two ribbons or planars due to their cost, so the tweeter line ends up far shorter than the midbass line and you have vastly different vertical dispersion patterns between the two at the crossover frequency.

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post #14 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Well cost sucks, and if you use cheap drivers they sound that way.
There have been many very good sounding speakers using cheap drivers. The magic is in the XO.

Heck the mid, most important dialog driver, in the 1099 is a cheap driver.

The old SPCA Special that Dennis Murphy built, which I own, is phenomenal for the price.
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post #15 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 08:59 AM
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Cheap tweeters and bested Yorkville U215's in a blind test.
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post #16 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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what's the cost on one of those ? Or per tweeter ?

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #17 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 01:44 PM
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MFusick: It seems to me that you like overkill, so this might be right up your alley.


I wanted to build a pair of line arrays after reading about the IDS25, but didn't want to spend a lot of $.


I wanted something that was easy to design and build and also didn't want to have to learn how to build crossovers for my 1st speaker build so I built a pair of mains with 42 of these drivers per 7' 6" line.


http://www.parts-express.com/hiwave-...8-ohm--299-208


The boxes are 5"wide x 12" deep x 95.5" high for them with a 1/7" wide x 1" deep x 94" tall slot port tuned to about 100hz.


They came out to ~$200 per speaker


I am going to measure them and will put up a build thread whenever I do, but have been enjoying them too much for the last year to bother with moving them.


They sound amazing to me with each on it's own channel of a ep4000 @6ohm and will play LOUD and clean but need dsp with about 10db of boost at 100hz and 20Khz to sound right. I'm kinda disappointed with what audyssey did with them hooked up to my receiver, but they need way more than a little tweak.



Here is a full height main with one of my prototypes with 12 speakers next to it, I will eventually be using 4 of the little arrays as surrounds and 3 big arrays for the front.





Here is a close up showing how I routed the top and bottom mounting flanges off the speakers to get closer CTC spacing.




The only problem I have with them is that they need a dozen subs to keep up with them.


I think Rick at Selah is THE guy if you want a kit or something designed.


Hope they are enough to put in your thread.
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post #18 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
what's the cost on one of those ? Or per tweeter ?

They are Bill's designed DR-250's with two stacked. The build on them is quite extensive but cheap for the performance. It costs about $300 to build each module depending on drivers. They need to be EQ'd correctly or they will sound like crap with the tweeters ripping your head off. They came in last place at a GTG on this forum with all the comments stating exactly how they sound with not correct EQ. Like I said, in my room they have bettered SEOS 10's, unity 215's, JTR 888LP's, and many others. Not just my opinion, I tested 5 different people as well and they had no idea which was playing. Of course I EQ'd them flat first, without EQ the U215's were much better. The U215's were much flatter without EQ so go figure. I still say it was damn close so if you could find used U215's for the same price it would be worth it. It was not worth it to me to change. Lateral move for lots of effort.
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post #19 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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You should DIY a synergy horn

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #20 of 44 Old 10-07-2014, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDean View Post
I go down the path of wanting to build LA design every 6 months or so, then in my research I start feeling like the Cons outweigh the Pros and I move on to something else. Though they sure look awesome and that's my allure to them.
What do you feel the negatives are?

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post #21 of 44 Old 10-09-2014, 07:57 PM
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For me they can tend to cost a lot more than I originally planned. BUT in saying that it is not a negative per say because I know its benefits out weigh that. I have seen quite a few LA's now and all were any where from 100-2000 dollars per speaker. I had planned on doing a more expensive one until I realized how much I was going to have to spend. So I canned that idea.

Build cheap and see if you like it. Then add more money if you want and put that budget into the tweeter area. For me if money were no object I would have some DSL products and a pair of DIY LA's. The LA's would use eight TPL-150's and eight JBL 228 8" woofers per cabinet.
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post #22 of 44 Old 10-09-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
What do you feel the negatives are?
Properly EQ'ed and implemented in a room, line array vs conventional speaker is simply a different experience. With a conventional speaker, I can sometimes tell the difference in 'height' between a tom tom and a cymbal, due to the vertical offset between woof/tweet. With a line, no difference in height, but everything seems 'taller'. The sound 'bloom' effect is real (I am talking about unshaded lines). But both have their compromises. The line needs more power and has a distinct sweet spot to keep up at higher freq due to the roll off. The conventional speaker does not, and can sound 'brighter', or even 'harsher' because of the comparative HF roll off of a line (unless you are in the sweet spot). I enjoy both, if well implemented. I so far tend to prefer conventionals for film, but lines for 2-Ch music.

JSS
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post #23 of 44 Old 10-09-2014, 10:35 PM
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MFusick: It seems to me that you like overkill ....
And who doesn't?

1: Sony DVP-S7000 | Denon DVD-2900 | Laptop > Emotiva XDA-2 > Emotiva Control Freak > Crown XLS2000 > Focal 826V | Def Tech BP2000 | (2) DIY 15" Subs
2: Computer > Parasound Zdac > Emotiva Control Freak > Acurus A150 > Focal 706V | Def Tech SM450 | Velodyne F-1000B Sub
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post #24 of 44 Old 10-10-2014, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Cheap tweeters and bested Yorkville U215's in a blind test.
Linky please...
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post #25 of 44 Old 10-10-2014, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post
Properly EQ'ed and implemented in a room, line array vs conventional speaker is simply a different experience. With a conventional speaker, I can sometimes tell the difference in 'height' between a tom tom and a cymbal, due to the vertical offset between woof/tweet. With a line, no difference in height, but everything seems 'taller'. The sound 'bloom' effect is real (I am talking about unshaded lines). But both have their compromises. The line needs more power and has a distinct sweet spot to keep up at higher freq due to the roll off. The conventional speaker does not, and can sound 'brighter', or even 'harsher' because of the comparative HF roll off of a line (unless you are in the sweet spot). I enjoy both, if well implemented. I so far tend to prefer conventionals for film, but lines for 2-Ch music.

JSS
What are you using now ?

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post #26 of 44 Old 10-10-2014, 07:54 AM
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Linky please...

I just had a local GTG with my friends and I played some music through each without them knowing which were on. There were 6 men and one woman. One man liked the Yorks better on one song but other than that song he and everyone liked the stacks better. The Yorks were corner loaded and toed in where the stacks are in the baffle wall. The yorks extended down to 40hz and the stacks down to 60hz thanks to the baffle wall. I crossed at 80hz and used my subs. It was very close though for me. The yorks had better midbass. I started a thread about dr-250 stacks vs yorks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I just had a local GTG with my friends and I played some music through each without them knowing which were on. There were 6 men and one woman. One man liked the Yorks better on one song but other than that song he and everyone liked the stacks better. The Yorks were corner loaded and toed in where the stacks are in the baffle wall. The yorks extended down to 40hz and the stacks down to 60hz thanks to the baffle wall. I crossed at 80hz and used my subs. It was very close though for me. The yorks had better midbass. I started a thread about dr-250 stacks vs yorks.
Where?
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post #28 of 44 Old 10-10-2014, 08:23 AM
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Where?
I will dig it up, hang on.
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post #29 of 44 Old 10-10-2014, 08:27 AM
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post #30 of 44 Old 10-10-2014, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
What are you using now ?
Seven 'BigMals' with four Aura NS6 and a SEOS12 in each. And eight Dayton Reference HF 15" subs, 4 on the front wall, 4 firing right into the backs of the MLP. I highly recommend nearfield subs. I can play flat down to 8Hz at 10dB below reference (118dB peaks). Nothing clips at -7dBRef. I have not dared to push further, the Daytons are very low distortion, but do not have a lot of mechanical clearance, so they are unforgiving of idiocy with the Master Volume.

The line arrays simply sounded different. Not better or worse. Like I said, for 2-Channel content, I loved the lines, but they had a VERY narrow vertical sweet spot. Stand up or hunch over, and the highs disappeared. My ceiling is treated to avoid lobing issues, since I didn't shade my lines.

Lines have inherent impulse response troubles. But the audibility, or desirability of the same 'trouble' is very subjective. The soundstage is simply 'taller' with lines. Hard to describe. Build a set and find out.

JSS
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