Building of Tangen AVdesign inConcert Miles, 2x15” + tweeter, sensitivity 103db - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 12Likes
  • 6 Post By BEF-NO
  • 1 Post By sandydankness
  • 1 Post By BEF-NO
  • 1 Post By BEF-NO
  • 2 Post By BEF-NO
  • 1 Post By niktak11
Thread Tools
post #1 of 29 Old 11-04-2014, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Building of Tangen AVdesign inConcert Miles, 2x15” + tweeter, sensitivity 103db

Have received some requests from People here for information about my speakers,TangenAVdesigninConcertMiles. then I thought it was just fine to make a thread about the theme and the construction of them. There is a largespeaker that Plays the whole frequency range with plenty of detail and dynamics.


The speaker is designed and constructed by Stig Erik Tangen, who had a firmTangenAVdesigna a few yearsback. Stig Erik has also contributed and built lots of different speaker designs.Similarity in all the Constructions he has done is great enthusiasm, mostnatural sound and dynamic.I bought the prototypes from Stig Erik had created for use in my HT.







Technical Information
Frequency response 30 - 25KHz
Sensitivity ca.103db for 2,83volt
Impedance 4 ohm
Recommended amplifier 1Watt or more
Power withstand 1600 watt continuous pink noise(ref AES2-1984 standard)
Bass / midrange Beyma 15P80Nd
Treble Beyma TLP-150H
Crossover Frequency 900Hz
Recommended listening distance 2 meter or more
Dimensions 46 x 56 x 110 cm (WxDxH)
Weight 60 kg




















Is some one building this speaker you are most welcome to share it here.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_4268.jpg
Views:	1282
Size:	61.5 KB
ID:	348898   Click image for larger version

Name:	inConcert%20Miles%20kabinett.jpg
Views:	1145
Size:	122.2 KB
ID:	348906   Click image for larger version

Name:	inConcert%20Miles%20filter.jpg
Views:	1095
Size:	60.5 KB
ID:	348914   Click image for larger version

Name:	Beyma%2015P80Nd.jpg
Views:	1095
Size:	162.2 KB
ID:	348922   Click image for larger version

Name:	Beyma%20TLP-150H.jpg
Views:	1132
Size:	145.4 KB
ID:	348930  


Last edited by BEF-NO; 11-04-2014 at 01:39 AM.
BEF-NO is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 Old 11-04-2014, 02:24 AM
Member
 
sandydankness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 34
I just looked at your theater design...

As a descendant of Norwegians living in the states, lets just say I'm proud of my homeland!!!!

Beter for fullt en for tidlit tompt, I hope I didn't screw up this translation, but from my grandmothers teachings you did it right the first time!!
Bombelman likes this.
sandydankness is offline  
post #3 of 29 Old 11-04-2014, 04:01 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Those look very nice, and expensive! There doesn't seem to be many builds that use the Beyma mids or woofers, just mainly the TPL-150. I wonder how those Beyma woofers stack up against offerings from AE and the higher end B&C units? The Beyma woofers in your speakers are even more expensive that the AE TD series, and I have always heard that as far as woofers go, the AE drivers are the absolute cream of the crop with pretty much nothing else beating them.


Do you know anything about the crossover used in your speaker? I see that the TPL-150 is crossed at 900hz, which is pretty low for a ribbon-type HF driver. Anyway, carry on!
Creampuff is offline  
post #4 of 29 Old 11-04-2014, 05:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chrapladm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 3,344
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Beyma has always been around and known to be a GREAT woofer. I have never heard of anyone using the TPL-150 that low before. Looks amazing and thanks so much for sharing your design.

Last edited by chrapladm; 11-07-2014 at 05:01 PM.
chrapladm is offline  
post #5 of 29 Old 11-07-2014, 04:14 PM
Member
 
partridgewest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Very Very Cool. Thanks so much for posting this, it's a great start.
103 db, low power, has got to be sweet!

How are the speakers wired up? is this bi-amped?
It says 4 ohms speakers, but they're all 8 ohms.

How are those 3 way linked woofers done? Do you have c
abinet plans for these? are they tuned port?

I'd love to try this with Beyma's massive 18 or 21" woofers.

Last edited by partridgewest; 11-07-2014 at 04:21 PM.
partridgewest is offline  
post #6 of 29 Old 11-07-2014, 07:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 9,795
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1437 Post(s)
Liked: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creampuff View Post
Those look very nice, and expensive! There doesn't seem to be many builds that use the Beyma mids or woofers, just mainly the TPL-150. I wonder how those Beyma woofers stack up against offerings from AE and the higher end B&C units? The Beyma woofers in your speakers are even more expensive that the AE TD series, and I have always heard that as far as woofers go, the AE drivers are the absolute cream of the crop with pretty much nothing else beating them.


Do you know anything about the crossover used in your speaker? I see that the TPL-150 is crossed at 900hz, which is pretty low for a ribbon-type HF driver. Anyway, carry on!
The AE drivers can play higher before cone breakup. The Beyma drivers are nice, but I would pick the AE drivers over them. A few people have crossed the TPL-150H that low, but after seeing several measurements, I would not cross them that low. I was wanting to use 1,200 and based on measurements am crossing at 1,800.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Sony, JVC, Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Pioneer, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #7 of 29 Old 11-08-2014, 04:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
The AE drivers can play higher before cone breakup. The Beyma drivers are nice, but I would pick the AE drivers over them. A few people have crossed the TPL-150H that low, but after seeing several measurements, I would not cross them that low. I was wanting to use 1,200 and based on measurements am crossing at 1,800.
Can you tell me what it was in the measurements that lead you to believe that 900hz or even 1200hz was not going to work for the TPL-150? I have heard folks say that it can be crossed as low as 1000hz, but I have my doubts it can go that low, although, I could very well be wrong. I mean heck, what do I know(!) I can't design crossovers nor have I ever learned how to interpret measurement graphs. I do know quite a bit about DIY audio, and it would be really nice if someone could teach me how to interpret measurement graphs! lol


Anyway, would you mind sharing some more information as to what gave you the impression that the optimal XO point for the TPL-150 was around 1800hz?
Creampuff is offline  
post #8 of 29 Old 11-11-2014, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
When talking about the crossover frequency, so do not look so much at the TLP-150H. There are basses that are the reason of crossover frequency choice, they have resonance frequency at 1300-1400Hz.

TLP-150H can fine have a crossover frequency as low as 900Hz and plays very open and airy.
BEF-NO is offline  
post #9 of 29 Old 11-11-2014, 01:06 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
All parts cut out in 30mm MDF



I use a router table for milling, here by milling the stiffeners inside the enclosure.







Milling of immersion to the elements



Milling holes to the elements







Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8434.jpg
Views:	766
Size:	64.7 KB
ID:	360906   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8433.jpg
Views:	768
Size:	59.1 KB
ID:	360914   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8435.jpg
Views:	766
Size:	65.7 KB
ID:	360922   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8439.jpg
Views:	761
Size:	89.6 KB
ID:	360930   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8440.jpg
Views:	770
Size:	74.9 KB
ID:	360954  

Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8443.jpg
Views:	762
Size:	61.9 KB
ID:	360962   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8447.jpg
Views:	766
Size:	66.2 KB
ID:	360970   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8448.jpg
Views:	763
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	360978   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8449.jpg
Views:	766
Size:	66.6 KB
ID:	360986  
partridgewest likes this.

Last edited by BEF-NO; 11-11-2014 at 01:10 AM.
BEF-NO is offline  
post #10 of 29 Old 11-11-2014, 03:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEF-NO View Post
When talking about the crossover frequency, so do not look so much at the TLP-150H. There are basses that are the reason of crossover frequency choice, they have resonance frequency at 1300-1400Hz.

TLP-150H can fine have a crossover frequency as low as 900Hz and plays very open and airy.
What do you mean by "resonance frequency"? Is that the lowest frequency that a driver can safely play before distortion starts to rise rapidly? If so, and this phenomena happens at 1300hz to 1400hz, why do you then say it is safe to cross as low as 900hz? I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your terms, reasoning, and logic?
Creampuff is offline  
post #11 of 29 Old 11-11-2014, 06:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 5,635
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 886 Post(s)
Liked: 873
I like the high frequency bypass on the tweeter.

I do question how low it's playing for that kind of power rating
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #12 of 29 Old 11-11-2014, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
All drivers have a frequency which gives a special upper resonance frequensy, the larger the element is, the lower will this frequency be. On these 15 " from Beyma in this cabinet will have a resonance around 1300-1400Hz. After much testing with different crossover was the best result the filter as it is drawing here in the thread.

Many people has easy to end projections based on what one reads and what is theoretically correct work. Sometimes you just have to see and hear what the laws of physics do with the end result.
BEF-NO is offline  
post #13 of 29 Old 11-11-2014, 05:32 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 9,795
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1437 Post(s)
Liked: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creampuff View Post
Can you tell me what it was in the measurements that lead you to believe that 900hz or even 1200hz was not going to work for the TPL-150? I have heard folks say that it can be crossed as low as 1000hz, but I have my doubts it can go that low, although, I could very well be wrong. I mean heck, what do I know(!) I can't design crossovers nor have I ever learned how to interpret measurement graphs. I do know quite a bit about DIY audio, and it would be really nice if someone could teach me how to interpret measurement graphs! lol


Anyway, would you mind sharing some more information as to what gave you the impression that the optimal XO point for the TPL-150 was around 1800hz?
I sent the AE TD12M's and TPL-150H to FACE2 for him to measure and give me crossover recommendations. Here is my thread:Baffle wall build using Beyma TPL-150H

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Sony, JVC, Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Pioneer, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #14 of 29 Old 11-12-2014, 08:28 PM
Member
 
partridgewest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Good details

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/imageh...025b0a3f3a.jpg

What are the 3 and 3 subwoofer drivers on the left and right of the center inconcert/Miles? Any plans?

Like bacon, who doesn't love good bass?

The build story is great. I would probably send to a CNC shop while giving me more time tweaking the box and experimenting with the baffles inside.
partridgewest is offline  
post #15 of 29 Old 11-18-2014, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Then it's time for glueing











Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8549.jpg
Views:	625
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	372097   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8544.jpg
Views:	616
Size:	66.7 KB
ID:	372105   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8553.jpg
Views:	614
Size:	61.8 KB
ID:	372113   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8554.jpg
Views:	616
Size:	73.8 KB
ID:	372121   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8556.jpg
Views:	623
Size:	86.1 KB
ID:	372129  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8561.jpg
Views:	623
Size:	81.2 KB
ID:	372137  
BEF-NO is offline  
post #16 of 29 Old 02-02-2015, 01:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Been a while since I updated here.

The next thing is gluing side walls of the cabinet.








Cabinet finished, with damping in the cabinet. There shall be no damping between 15 "as seen in the picture!







Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8565.jpg
Views:	440
Size:	73.3 KB
ID:	518497   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8570.jpg
Views:	440
Size:	73.4 KB
ID:	518505   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8610.jpg
Views:	435
Size:	56.4 KB
ID:	518513   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8609.jpg
Views:	433
Size:	60.1 KB
ID:	518521   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8611.jpg
Views:	444
Size:	47.9 KB
ID:	518529  

Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8614.jpg
Views:	439
Size:	59.2 KB
ID:	518537   Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_8617.jpg
Views:	436
Size:	64.6 KB
ID:	518545  
BEF-NO is offline  
post #17 of 29 Old 02-02-2015, 05:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chrapladm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 3,344
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 142
No flaring of the port entry or exit?
chrapladm is offline  
post #18 of 29 Old 02-02-2015, 05:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
Face2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked: 90
More importantly, you need more lateral bracing. Some dowels between the top, bracing, and bottom would be helpful.
Face2 is online now  
post #19 of 29 Old 02-02-2015, 12:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
Stumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post
More importantly, you need more lateral bracing. Some dowels between the top, bracing, and bottom would be helpful.
I, personally, wouldn't worry about it in a cab with big ports like this, unless an anomaly showed up in his measurements.
Stumbo is offline  
post #20 of 29 Old 02-02-2015, 01:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
maxcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,678
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by partridgewest View Post
Like bacon, who doesn't love good bass?
Have I got the sub for you!
maxcooper is offline  
post #21 of 29 Old 02-03-2015, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
No flaring of the port entry or exit?
Does not make much sense to do that when the port is almost 7.5 inc., so the air speed is relatively low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post
More importantly, you need more lateral bracing. Some dowels between the top, bracing, and bottom would be helpful.
The cabinet is very stiff and there is practically no vibration in it.
BEF-NO is offline  
post #22 of 29 Old 02-03-2015, 09:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
Stumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Awesome build! I'm sure you're excited to fire them up!
Stumbo is offline  
post #23 of 29 Old 02-04-2015, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
It's a project I completed in 2011, but share it with you now, when I was not a member here at the time.

Here is the LCR + sub set up, whit me on top




Animation to show the layout behind the screen

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hjemmehos_001-990x505.jpg
Views:	323
Size:	97.8 KB
ID:	525449   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hjemmehos_002-oppslag-990x505.jpg
Views:	313
Size:	83.6 KB
ID:	525457  
BEF-NO is offline  
post #24 of 29 Old 02-04-2015, 08:12 AM
a|F
Member
 
a|F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEF-NO View Post
It's a project I completed in 2011, but share it with you now, when I was not a member here at the time.

Here is the LCR + sub set up, whit me on top




Animation to show the layout behind the screen

I've seen pictures where you have another speaker on top of your LCR- maybe TADs with another 15/18? What is the current setup?
a|F is offline  
post #25 of 29 Old 02-04-2015, 08:13 AM
a|F
Member
 
a|F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEF-NO View Post

Do you have a picture of this room? The wall treatments look interesting.
a|F is offline  
post #26 of 29 Old 02-04-2015, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by a|F View Post
Do you have a picture of this room? The wall treatments look interesting.
It looks probably more exciting than what it is, it's just normal wallpaper

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_4264.jpg
Views:	300
Size:	87.4 KB
ID:	526257  
its phillip likes this.
BEF-NO is offline  
post #27 of 29 Old 02-13-2015, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
BEF-NO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by a|F View Post
I've seen pictures where you have another speaker on top of your LCR- maybe TADs with another 15/18? What is the current setup?
I have upgraded this construction with montage of midrange and a 15" bass on top. Then playing all three basses in parallel. The structure I use active crossover on.

Here is a picture of the current setup, for more info see in my thread here.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	104.9 KB
ID:	542801  
niktak11 and its phillip like this.
BEF-NO is offline  
post #28 of 29 Old 02-13-2015, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEF-NO View Post
I have upgraded this construction with montage of midrange and a 15" bass on top. Then playing all three basses in parallel. The structure I use active crossover on.

Here is a picture of the current setup, for more info see in my thread here.

Not enough woofers
BEF-NO likes this.
niktak11 is offline  
post #29 of 29 Unread Today, 06:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Crunchyriff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: E SF Bay Area, CA.
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I know this thread has some mileage on it...but ABSOLUTELY STUNNING JOB!!
Crunchyriff is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off