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The "Iwata 215Be's" info and build thread

27K views 342 replies 45 participants last post by  Carl_Huff 
#1 · (Edited)
So Mr. Tux should have all that the components by X-Mas to start doing his thing and creating a x-over.
Plan is open to passive or active x-over or a mix of both and Ryan will choose what he thinks is best.
Long term project and no rush to get this done.

The key words that I have told Ryan to describe what I am looking for are:
Power
Clarity
Attack
Airy

Components for each of the front 3:

2 x JBL 2226h
1 x 2446h 2" compression driver with Be diaphragm
1 x Iwata 300
***may add an AMT or a Beyma 150d or the new 200 if we can't get the high's sounding where I want them to.
I think we are shooting for somewhere between 40-45hz on the low end.

Front 3 will get 1000watts per side from my Powersoft 4 channel amp.

Each 2226 will have it's own cabinet and be ported. They will be stacked on top of each other.
Each driver is recessed in the baffle by 1/4 - 1/2" and will have a large roundover on the front edge of the opening.
Each side of the port will be flared or have a roundover.
Subs will be 2 - FTW 21's powered by their own Ashly KLR3200 bridged to 3200watts.

[there will be bracing inside not shown in the image. 1.5" thick front baffle and 3/4" walls elsewhere most likely baltic birch then painted high gloss white]





Ryan will be taking measurements of everything and posting them here if I'm not wrong.
Maybe the differences between the stock diaphragm and the Be in the 2446 also.

I also want to thank jbrown for helping us get the iwata's over here and Erich for putting up with my badgering. Also Scott Simonian for pushing me to spend money and Mr. Carl Huff for his help about the Be diaphragms and where to get them.
 
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#4 ·
First was looks. I though it would be drop dead sexy on a FOH system.
After doing some research about them and reading Penngray's thread and this quote from Carl Huff I was sold.

I too hear a difference with the IWATAs. For me the IWATAs sound 'bigger' than do other horn systems that I have had. All too often with my previous horn systems I could close my eyes and with my ears successfully point to the horn as the source of the music. With the IWATAs it is a different story. I find the music much more engulfing and I can no longer close my eyes and see the horn as the source of the music. It is a much different presentation than what I had expected. Does that sound like a reasonable description?? I am not satisfied with my own words but lack a better ones to share.
________________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
 
#10 ·
Alright so like I mentioned this is gonna be in the works for a while.
I just arrived in my new Hometown of Saskatoon from Toronto(3100 kms away) the first week of January.
I will be staying with a friend until the new business gets under way.
The only update I have is the iwata's that came in just before Xmas.
Thanks to Erich for getting them out so quick, jbrown for picking them up from his depot in the US and Tux for picking them up from Joe's. LOL
Oh and thanks to Joe's kids for saving us all a few dollars. ;)

Here are a couple pics of the iwata 300's.




I was hoping for a more deeper candy red but I will decide after I see them sometime n the summer hopefully, if I will get them painted or not.
Should look pretty slick over a pearl white bottom end.
 
#12 ·
Tux even if it takes longer is there any way you can take measurements and let us know the difference between the original diaphragm and the Be?
Since you have 3 of everything there an opinion on any difference you hear, like's dislikes would be cool also.


I hate doing doors and windows. Too precise for my liking.
 
#16 ·
It's funny how much of a patient person I have become the past couple years.
I have a brand new 64" Samsung Plasma still in the box for the past few months I've never even opened. It was only opened in store to test out. I have 2 amps, and Tux has most of my speaker components and I don't feel rushed at all to open everything or get things done.

When it happens it happens.
 
#18 ·
This is similar to a build that I plan on doing in the coming summer, only difference is that I will be using Seos24's instead of the iWatta's. Will be using the same 2446 compression drivers, that is, assuming that I can find a pair for a reasonable price, and will also be using the Be diaphragms. It has been my understanding that if you are using the Be diaphragms on a 2446 or 2447 that it will push the breakup frequency higher up in frequency and add a good bit of clarity and detail to the top end. I am also open to the idea of using a (super?) tweeter such as the TPL-200 or...?

Speaking of which, I wonder what would be a good option for the extended high frequencies assuming that the 2446/Be combo doesn't cut it? I know that the Beyma is a great option. But what else is out there that would have the sensitivity to keep up and give the best top end possible regardless of price? Would something like a Raal work if crossed over actively?
 
#20 ·
I've discussed the idea of using something like the RAAL pro, TPL or an AMT with Ryan. He knows my opinion on the whole thing and what I am trying to achieve on the top end. I'm not so sure we will be able to get that from the 2446's with the Be's.
I have no problem adding to the design if need be with the above mentioned units if need be.
I really want that top end nice and airy.
 
#27 ·
I love pictures! I heard that the Be can hold the weight of an average man. Did you try standing on it? :p
 
#33 ·
The Be phragm can't fix beaming. It also may not totally fix break up. It should be better than the JBL, but it won't turn it into a 1" CD by any means. It's a 3" phragm, that's large. Just like a 3" direct radiator is meant for midrange, so is this.

OTOH, I'm pretty confident it'll sound nice. I've told kingpin I don't think we'll need it. But we don't know until we hear it :)
 
#37 · (Edited)
I'm pretty blown away. :D





I only had time for a quick sweep. I didn't know if we'd actually see much of a difference in just a FR comparison, but I'm generally to lazy to use REW to look at a waterfall, and the harmonic distortion graphs in HolmImpulse don't impress me. I keep choosing power tools instead of SoundEasy, but I'll get it eventually. So for now, Holm is my go-to in my setup. So I figured let's give it a go and maybe I'll see a difference. Well, look - at - that... The Be is smoother from about 6khz and up and it manages to fill in a wide low region from 3 to 5khz. Aside from the very top octave, this thing is dome tweeter smooth.


Stepping back from the JBL vs Be comparison, I'm also really impressed with the response in general. I expected less. Look at that bandwidth!! And the response is fairly level throughout. No gnarly shelves or holes in the response. I believe this should be credited to the Iwata though. At least the axial response. We`ll see how the off axis response looks later, so not falling over backwards yet ;)


Now here's the Impulse Response comparison.





I`m gonna dumb this down a bit for those who aren`t sure what they`re looking at. This is what the mic and software are actually measuring. The frequency response is then derived from it. On it`s own, it`s pretty boring to look at. Cumulative Spectral Decay, however, is graphed based on successive readings of the IR. So what does all that mean. Basically, if you look at the tails after the big spike, you`ll see a kind of ringing going on with the JBL (red) and the Be is smoother. If this were graphed as a CSD chart, the Be would be superior.


To those who know what they`re looking at, yes, I see that I was hooked up reverse polarity. I couldn`t find a headphone to RCA cable so I quickly cut up some cords and gator clipped them together. I guess I hooked it up backwards :eek:




I can`t believe I`m going to say this, but if faced with the decision to use a $500 Be phragm or use a super tweeter, the Be is totally worth it.
 
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