Hello all,
I want to build a DIY sub to replace 2 Bic America VK-12s. Eventually, I want to end up with dual 15s powered by 2 EP4000s. I don't have all the power equipment (not enough work space right now) yet to build the Box so I will purchase the amps and subs first. Now I know pro equipment requires more input signal than consumer electronics, so is there anything that can be done to combat this? Right now my receiver is an 1121, but I do plan on getting an avr that can eq the sub. Are there any other concerns regarding the EP4000? I'm sure this will be an ongoing thread for me so please be patient with me
The voltage difference in signal between you typical AVR and pro audio amp isnt always an issue. It just depends on the manufacturers. For instance I use a pioneer to feed 2 different Behringer Inukes, and no additional hardware was needed. Sometimes though, if the voltage from the avr is too low/high, you need a separate device to adjust the voltage before the signal get to the pro audio amp. Not really too big of deal, and not very expensive either.
No concerns with an ep4000....it's a solid amp. FYI....and something to consider...depending on your desired output, sub brand, and enclosure type, I don't see why 1 ep4k couldn't power both 15's.
the usual drill
budget, room size, preferences, placement options, WAF factor, size limitations, DIY skills or access to basic tools/ people who have some of the tools . . .
or flats packs, i.e. chalugadp, PE, DIYsoundgroup,
or
bonafide plans @ google BilFitzmaurice many options for guaranteed results ( I built 3 of his subs)
also consider REW and the calibrated mike, find out what you already have and maybe there is some room for improvement i.e. alternate placement while you gather the other stuff . . .
you're going to want REW to evaluate and integrate the whole system and the ROOM
if you get an AVR to help with sub eq shoot for Audyssey xt32 at least, check the "low end" denon x4100
The only problem with the EP4000 is that it doesn't have DSP.
So no HPF for a ported sub to protect it.
No infrasonic boosting for sealed subs.
No EQ.
No LPF.
No power limiter.
No adjustable input gain.
No I/O monitoring.
For the money you pay, the inuke DSP's are worth the difference IMO.
I know everyone poops on Behringer, but they have the highest value/$ and feature-richness/$ of any other company (that I know of...)
I'm almost certain a 6000DSP is more powerful than an XTI4000, and is WAY cheaper and has all it's features. (The only thing it doesn't have is a uni supply and XLR outs, and 0volts fan.)
It's hard to ignore the value Behringer.
and as far as watts go, it's even harder to ignore Sanway (where ELSE can you buy 9000watts for $800?... NOWHERE!).
Unfortunately, like the EP4000, the clones don't have a DSP either, nor even a warranty, so...
If you have ever popped the covers on an EP4000 vs inuke vs clone. The EP4000 looks like it was MADE to start house fires (dead serious), it's really poorly wired and cooled by comparison.
Don't take my word for it, Google Image it yourself.
The only problem with the EP4000 is that it doesn't have DSP.
So no HPF for a ported sub to protect it.
No infrasonic boosting for sealed subs.
No EQ.
No LPF.
No power limiter.
No adjustable input gain.
No I/O monitoring.
^^ This. If you can't EQ or protect your driver, you're likely to be disappointed with the results.
I don't have a problem with the voltage out from my Denon AVR-X2000 to my nu1000DSP, but if you find you have a problem (is that the Pioneer VSX-1121?) you can get a booster.
the mofo 15 is in the same ballpark as the alpine swS15. swR15 has a little more.
agree with trying to get dual 4 ohm drivers as they wire up to the inuke amps better if targeting about 1000 watts per driver.
you'd probably be quite happy with ~6 cubic footers tuned to ~18hz with any of those drivers and about 1000 watts per driver. the swr could go in that or a larger/lower tuned cab and still be happy as it has more excursion.
upper end sensitivity on all of them is on the lowish side so multiples (or multiples of multiples) may be required if shooting for head cracking midbass.
iirc, for a while sam ash was offering 6000dsp delivered for $365 if you called them. at that price, it is hard to suggest the 3000 even if you don't need all the power.
a 6000 should be able to handle four dual-4-ohm drivers for a net of 4 ohms per channel. that would be about 1100 watts or so per sub. so there would be an upgrade path if 2 15's wasn't enough...and it won't be.
in most cases, a 20a circuit is not required for a variety of reasons, unless blasting subsonic sine waves at full spl. worst case is the breaker trips and the fun stops while you reset it, but that shouldn't really be a problem.
audyssey results are mixed. for some folks it works well. for others not so much and manual eq is preferred. it is really hit or miss and i don't have a good sense for what makes it hit or miss.
iirc, for a while sam ash was offering 6000dsp delivered for $365 if you called them. at that price, it is hard to suggest the 3000 even if you don't need all the power.
in most cases, a 20a circuit is not required for a variety of reasons, unless blasting subsonic sine waves at full spl. worst case is the breaker trips and the fun stops while you reset it, but that shouldn't really be a problem.
audyssey results are mixed. for some folks it works well. for others not so much and manual eq is preferred. it is really hit or miss and i don't have a good sense for what makes it hit or miss.
I have a VSX-1121 which I really like and the only reason I was entertaining the thought of getting MultEQ XT32 was for sub eq. Getting minidsp to eq the sub will save me about $600.
The iNuke has more PEQ channels (8 vs 6) than the Minidsp. And it has a limiter (so you won't send too much power to the driver). Other than that, I would say the MiniDSP is a little more powerful and flexible. I'd recommend iNuke DSP for the limiter alone
Now I must say, I am more confused after reading through all the threads regarding 20Hz, HPF, and DSP Lets say I just went with an iNUKE6000dsp, which doesn't filter below 20Hz, what and how will it affect a movie like Star Wars Episode III as opposed to filtering below 20Hz? Before I got into HT, which was relatively recent, I was into car audio. Now I wasn't too concerned about frequency, but SPL was important. For those who are familar with the song "Put on for my city" What frequency is the lowest bass note of the intro? In terms of dsp and hpf, how would it impact playing that frequency?
Now I've read that there is a work around for the iNUKE's dsp filtering below 20Hz, but it will negatively impact the performance of the dsp in some way, how so? If I could find that thread I'd post a link to it.
Is there a guru near Shreveport, La? I think I'm just gonna get a 6000dsp and deal with the 20Hz hpf limit. Hell I don't even know what I'd be missing anyway not filtering below 20Hz So since I won't be able to filter below 20Hz (without tweaking) What would happen if the enclosure was tuned under 20Hz? A Full Marty doesn't look that difficult to build even for me Two of them perhaps.
Most songs don't utilize that much content below 35-40hz. I run a 20hz filter and am happy. I would love to run something lower - but my subs are tuned to 20hz, so I can't. Remember, we can hear below 20hz - anything below that is just for good house-shaking fun
I haven't built a marty, so I would ask them what they recommend for iNuke settings (check out the Marty thread). However, they look like greater starter DIY subs with serious bang for the buck.
And definitely recommend the 6000dsp. With the fan mods, it will be quieter than the 3000dsp. Just remember that the 6000dsp can't go below 4ohm loads - so you will need match the appropriate drivers to it (4ohm per channel).
I have a terrible ear for pitch, but as near as I can hear (switching between my tone generator app and Spotify), the bass in I Put On for the City is all above 40 Hz. The low E on a standard bass guitar is 41.2 Hz, and I don't think the song goes below that, in the intro, at least. The low B on a 5-string bass is 30.9 Hz. The lowest note on an 88-key piano is 27.5 Hz.
There are tons of iNUKE DSP amps used by guys in this forum with ported subs. The driver and the box are what limit your tuning more than the amp. LTD's less-than-20Hz HPF trick has been tested to work as expected as well. Don't overthink things too much. Generally speaking, the recommendations people make come from builds that have been built and tested.
Duc has some great points. One thing to keep in mind is loud/strong is very subjective. I've upgraded a few times and many people who have listened to all of the different changes in my system can't tell the difference in quality/depth - only the shear output.
I do agree with Duc that sub 20hz output is really fun (I currently use couch shakers for this) and really makes a movie that much better. But to be fair, if an IMAX seems super intense for you (specifically in regards to bass), then a pair of nice ported 15s would blow your mind. But to many on this forum, they would want more.
If I were you, I would build a set of 18s using the SI HTs and iNuke 6000DSP to power them. This has ample room grow your system if desired but still really kick some serious butt in the meantime.
iNUKE 6000dsp and artbox pro on the way I'm still on the fence in regards to Dual MoFo 15's and dual HT18 18″. Currently I can get the mofo's for $119 shipped from amazon and the HT18s at $159. I promised myself I was going to purchase 1 component at a time....I guess I lied to myself. You guys are a bad influence. Well at least my wife thinks so
Go with the 18's my friend. The pair will only run you 80 bucks more. If your the average guy, Im guessing you have wasted 80 bucks on dumb **** hundreds of times in your life. And 18's arent dumb ( hows that for a convincing argument, lol )
Anyhow, 18's are like instant viagra for the bass lacking hometheater. Get the 15's and always wonder what the 18's would of sounded like....or get the 18's now and know.
I have a problem guys, I've begun a modified full marty dual 15 enclosure build in which I purchased mdf sheets from two different Home Depots. One HD cut the sheets longer and wider than 2'x4' and the other HD tried to cut the sheets exactly 2'x4' not accounting for the blade's thickness. Is there anything I can do about the gap in the pic that I've attached?
I have a problem guys, I've begun a modified full marty dual 15 enclosure build in which I purchased mdf sheets from two different Home Depots. One HD cut the sheets longer and wider than 2'x4' and the other HD tried to cut the sheets exactly 2'x4' not accounting for the blade's thickness. Is there anything I can do about the gap in the pic that I've attached?
I would recommend a tube of PL400 adhesive + gun (Less than $10 total).
Wood glue won't fill a gap and caulk won't solidify to give your "free floating" panels rigidity.
Personally I don't trust the big box stores to do anything more than rough cut. I would take a skill saw and a straight edge over that mess any day.
I'd trim it flush with whatever tools you've got. Belt sander, circular saw, router, hand plane, rasp, whatever. I had a smaller lip on my last build, and just used a plane, rasp, and sanding block to smooth it out.
The video in the Marty Faq shows the use of a compressor and nail gun, being as I don't have a compressor or a nail gun, I'm limited to the number of pieces I can fit together at a time. The pics I've attached aren't glued but held together only by the one clamp. Before I glue anything, is there a better technique to use other than what I'm attempting?
For those who have built Full and Mini Martys without a nailer, how are you holding the back port rail in place while the glue drys? Are you laying the enclosure down and putting something on top of them until they dry? Or, is it best to go and get a nailer/stapler for the bottom/back port rails and ports?
If you dont have a nailer, then yeah, lay it down, glue in the rails and place something heavy on them.
Truthfully though, Id get a nailer if I was you....it makes speakers building SO much nicer and faster. If you have harbor freight stores by you, there is a little pancake compressor they sell there all the time for less than 50 bucks on sale. The nailer is another 20 bucks. It works like a charm for speaker building.
Hey guys, my wife is a symmetrical person and the idea of having one Full Marty with two 15" in the main viewing sight is a no go. The problem is I have the full marty partly done. I was thinking of building two separate ported enclosures for the 15s and putting them in the near field and getting two RSS460HO-4 18" and put them up front, will this be a problem? Will the 6000dsp be ok running the 4 woofers at 4ohms or is a second 6000dsp or 3000dsp needed?
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