Interesting DIY rotary subwoofer project - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 295 Old 04-03-2015, 04:30 PM
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^
thank you so very much
not trying to obnoxiously technical but I know so little and am quite intrigued


back to the drawing board
sounds like a key element is that hole thru the magnet,
Amazon ; Xplod 12" speaker, discontinued but available used for $70 mol. haven't seen info wrt xmax
could such a hole be drilled?
maybe go to Fry's or BB and look for such a beast, it may be more common than we realize, never looked myself . .
still sounds like there's a need for transition from the rotary to any other subs, just gotta have some kind of EQ/XO
maybe the regular subs could be HPF'd at 20-25 hz, that might a the minidsp feature


just got word my DIYSG Fusion 15's are at FEDEX
catch up later . .

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www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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post #32 of 295 Old 04-04-2015, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
^
thank you so very much
not trying to obnoxiously technical but I know so little and am quite intrigued


back to the drawing board
sounds like a key element is that hole thru the magnet,
Amazon ; Xplod 12" speaker, discontinued but available used for $70 mol. haven't seen info wrt xmax
could such a hole be drilled?
maybe go to Fry's or BB and look for such a beast, it may be more common than we realize, never looked myself . .
still sounds like there's a need for transition from the rotary to any other subs, just gotta have some kind of EQ/XO
maybe the regular subs could be HPF'd at 20-25 hz, that might a the minidsp feature


just got word my DIYSG Fusion 15's are at FEDEX
catch up later . .
most big in-car subs have this coil hole through the magnet and it isnt something you can drill.
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post #33 of 295 Old 04-04-2015, 01:59 PM
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looking at the woofer for the Fusion-15: there's a hole! and then a small wire mesh at the other side of the magnet
as a side note the 360 CD weighs MORE than the woofer in this kit, just going by "heft" . . .
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
LOL

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post #34 of 295 Old 04-04-2015, 02:12 PM
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in exploring wrt to 12" and Xmax specs at PE and then at
Sony, they didn't specify a spec for the xmax but
if its any consulation, it does have a "Stroke stabilizer"

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #35 of 295 Old 04-12-2015, 08:41 AM
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hi hguys, sorry been a while, i ghave nearly finished the guide, will be adding a few finishing touches later on
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post #36 of 295 Old 04-12-2015, 09:47 AM
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This is quite interesting. Subscribed

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post #37 of 295 Old 04-17-2015, 05:18 AM
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The guide is complete! Sorry about the delay, I shall upload in just a few. Going to read through it to make sure everything is correct
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post #38 of 295 Old 04-17-2015, 07:41 AM
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hey guys, the guide is complete!
the link: http://www.filedropper.com/diysubwoo...ebychrishudlin
the file is 65mb, rather large for a word document, but that cause of all the pics. its 20 pages long but wont take long to read. enjoy
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post #39 of 295 Old 04-17-2015, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris hudlin View Post
hey guys, the guide is complete!
the link: http://www.filedropper.com/diysubwoo...ebychrishudlin
the file is 65mb, rather large for a word document, but that cause of all the pics. its 20 pages long but wont take long to read. enjoy
Brilliant. Thanks for taking on this project, Chris.

I hope to see a number of builders take on this project and post results! I've got a friend who may be building a dedicated room and we will give this a shot!
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post #40 of 295 Old 04-17-2015, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mtnboydl View Post
Brilliant. Thanks for taking on this project, Chris.

I hope to see a number of builders take on this project and post results! I've got a friend who may be building a dedicated room and we will give this a shot!
No problem id love to see 1This working in your friends place. Thatd be amazing! Can't wait to hear your update
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post #41 of 295 Old 04-17-2015, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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It's going to take us a while! The room hasn't even started yet! Hopefully some others will start sooner.
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post #42 of 295 Old 04-18-2015, 06:54 AM
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Wow! DIY rotary sub options on AVS is going to be crazy! They will start to pop up everywhere!

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post #43 of 295 Old 04-18-2015, 10:53 AM
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Sooooo......................


Can the motor be just "regular' 1 phase if it meets the RPM requirement ?
this is not needing much power wrt doing "work" ,
physics geeks, please chime in- right or wrong?
the moving mass is fairly light (?) and there is no increasing load say as in an air compressor setup,
even tho this thing is "compressing" but into free air, the load is pretty much uniform afaict
a "fan" as sized 15-17"s is not going to compress/pressurize your room


a solid base is needed wrt staying put, no torque-y bouncing around


would a fan shroud of sorts be an improvement? safety and certainly AT


would a scale be helping to assure parts weigh the same wrt rotational balancing/smoothness


it looks like the kit provides some answers there

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #44 of 295 Old 04-18-2015, 02:38 PM
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My thoughts: The motor would need to be very strong otherwise the rpm (and consequently loudness) will drop lower with a longer base scene compared to a brief note. Ideally you'd have an rpm monitor that would give more pitch (by increasing gain) if the rpm dropped to ensure air movement was maintained and linear.

Now I'm not really sure if adding mass ie momentum to the rotor would help. the rpm would still drop if the rotor motor wasn't strong enough however the rate that the rpm would drop would be lower with more mass . This obviously would be good. However the recovery of rpm phase would be longer. However given that in home theatre the bass is usually brief i think adding mass would be beneficial, but the main thing would be having a strong motor.

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post #45 of 295 Old 04-18-2015, 02:40 PM
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Yes a scale would help. If you look up how to balance rotor blades for rc helicopters it explains how to add counter weights.

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post #46 of 295 Old 04-18-2015, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijunglist View Post
Yes a scale would help. If you look up how to balance rotor blades for rc helicopters it explains how to add counter weights.
One could also do before/after weight tests (drilling out various hole sizes in scrap blade material), then use these figures to drill holes to balance the blades.

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post #47 of 295 Old 04-18-2015, 03:36 PM
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The best way to balance blades is to build a sesaw. Because it's not really weight that is important it's weight x distance to center. Ie a blade that is overall lighter but heavier at the tip can have more rotational weight than a heavier blade that is heavy at the center. Adding counter weight would be easier because you can shift the distance from the center as well.
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post #48 of 295 Old 04-19-2015, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
Sooooo......................


Can the motor be just "regular' 1 phase if it meets the RPM requirement ?
this is not needing much power wrt doing "work" ,
physics geeks, please chime in- right or wrong?
the moving mass is fairly light (?) and there is no increasing load say as in an air compressor setup,
even tho this thing is "compressing" but into free air, the load is pretty much uniform afaict
a "fan" as sized 15-17"s is not going to compress/pressurize your room


a solid base is needed wrt staying put, no torque-y bouncing around


would a fan shroud of sorts be an improvement? safety and certainly AT


would a scale be helping to assure parts weigh the same wrt rotational balancing/smoothness


it looks like the kit provides some answers there
physics geek reply...

the moving mass isnt the issue, it is the resistance form the air dependent on the angle of the blade. when the blades are moving, they move relatively quick and the volume of air is enough to slow it down a few rpm, damaging the feeling/hearing experience. if the motor is strong, it will stay at that set rpm. m,y 3phase half horsepower motor drops 0.2-4 of a hz when in use. (the VFD has a live display showing me what the speed [hz] is set to and what is doing)
a shroud isnt really needed unless you need to change the phase. and the shroud is huge, and measured to match the phase change for the listening room. this will greatly enhance the listening experience, but in my case, the unit is in the listening room which also dampens the listening / feeling experience. but its all experimental at the moment so i havent bothered
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post #49 of 295 Old 04-19-2015, 01:40 PM
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i have uploaded an updated version. it just reiterated the important bits and one or two minor changes

http://www.filedropper.com/diysubwoo...ychrishudlin_1

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post #50 of 295 Old 04-20-2015, 03:04 AM
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Anyone else smell that?

It smells like Rotary Sub flat pack in here...
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post #51 of 295 Old 04-20-2015, 02:58 PM
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ok - strong motor good . . .


any EE minded folks that can discuss why a 1, 1 1/2, or 2 hp @ 220 might be able to provide the power to maintain the rpm as monitored/controlled by the VFD?


I have 200 amp service at my home, I can do some power if needed , like a 60 amp welding circuit . . just sayin'


some benefits of a flat pack would be: no heavy double baffle, less shipping costs (?), minimum glue up time, air tight sealing not required, saves a buttload on veneer/exotic finishes,
tinkerers delight . ., vibration isolation desired?, no warped plywood, no duratex, . . . it's endless

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #52 of 295 Old 04-20-2015, 06:23 PM
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now wrt getting a signal for the rotary sub,
i'm thinking bass synthesizer/extractor coming from the AVR (?) for those 3-5 to 15-18 hz tones specifically for the rotary
going thru a minidsp 2 x 4 and LPF at 18-20 hz, and then HPF the other subs as needed, 14-16 hz, optimizing for "cohesive blend", etc.




it would be naïve to not believe such electronics doesn't already exist


how about Sweetwater as a source?

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www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #53 of 295 Old 04-20-2015, 06:35 PM
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a companion question wrt post 51:


reviewing the pdf , and not specificallty addressed, afaict
IS there any advantage to the specific type of motor?
a stroll thru the Grainger catalog shows a buttload of duty ratings and other specs, like TEFC, etc
what would exclude certain types?


so, directive input/comments, please

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SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #54 of 295 Old 04-20-2015, 11:35 PM
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initially . . .
maybe this in the circuit:



The DBX 120A Sub-harmonic Synthesizer with Modeled Waveform Synthesis has been specifically optimized to enhance bass audio material for use in a variety of professional applications, including nightclub and dance DJ mixing, theatre and film sound, music recording, live music performance and broadcasting. The unit's patented modeled Waveform Synthesis process builds a synthesized waveform, using the wave shapes of the original bass material, to produce a new modeled bass note exactly one octave below the original. The dbx process produces smooth, musical low frequencies that do not interfere with mid and high-band information even when maximum synthesis and boost are applied.

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #55 of 295 Old 04-20-2015, 11:41 PM
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and.....


The 120A's two separate bands of sub-harmonic synthesis provide the best combination of smoothness and control, while the independent low frequency boost circuit is designed to get the most out of high-performance, low frequency speaker systems. Flexible system interfacing is achieved by providing main outputs which can be full range (including synthesis) or high-frequency only, along with a separate subwoofer output with its own level control


so what about that motor spec?

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www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #56 of 295 Old 04-21-2015, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
ok - strong motor good . . .


any EE minded folks that can discuss why a 1, 1 1/2, or 2 hp @ 220 might be able to provide the power to maintain the rpm as monitored/controlled by the VFD?


I have 200 amp service at my home, I can do some power if needed , like a 60 amp welding circuit . . just sayin'


some benefits of a flat pack would be: no heavy double baffle, less shipping costs (?), minimum glue up time, air tight sealing not required, saves a buttload on veneer/exotic finishes,
tinkerers delight . ., vibration isolation desired?, no warped plywood, no duratex, . . . it's endless
because of torque strength. its been mentioned a few times now lol. i would say a 3/4 1ph is minimum and 3/4 3ph or 1hp 1ph would be reccomended but i use a 1/2 3ph. id say a 1/4hp 3ph would be min
3phase is more economical too. as discussed here:

and i quote: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ciency-171972/

"Default
The problem with a single phase capacitor run motor is they have a secondary motor winding and a capacitor in series to provide delayed supply of AC sort of like a pseudo two phase AC motor. The ideal value of the motor run capacitor varies with the mechanical load to keep the phase delay right for maximum electrical efficiency.

If you could get a really high quality single phase motor and rig up some microprocessor circuit to switch different value capacitors in and out depending on loading, you'd have much better efficiency than a normal single phase motor with a "Best guess" value of capacitance that can be a compromise unless the mechanical load is constant at just the ideal amount.
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A quick check of the Baldor website shows many of the 1 hp single phase motors have an efficiency of about 65-70%.

Other then losses due to the capacitor, I would expect higher losses due to the higher current in the windings for single phase motors vs three phase. For the same HP and voltage, a three phase motor requires 43% less current per phase which means less heat and less power loss."

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post #57 of 295 Old 04-22-2015, 04:34 AM
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I'm not sure RPM drops would be a big deal but an active feedback controller seems like a good idea if it is. Really until you know what kind of RPM drops you may encounter it may not even be worth bothering with. I would think motor speed should be almost entirely related to sound volume and have little effect on harmonic distortion.

I also just wanted to congratulate whoever thought to use the RC rotor system. It seems so obvious now (and pretty cheap). I remember a while back someone was working up something in CAD for a full custom rotary sub. The only concern I have is whether the system is a linear translation of woofer displacement to rotor angle.

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post #58 of 295 Old 04-22-2015, 12:34 PM
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sooooooooooooo . . .


glacially rushing right along


here is one choice (?)
<li class="productName">GP Motor, 3-Ph, TEFC, 1 HP, 3480 rpm, 56GP Motor,3-Ph,TEFC,1 HP,3480 rpm,56<li class="product-info">Item # 35JF92<li class="product-info">Mfr. Model # 00136ES3E56-Snow we know the motor isn't expected to run more than about 1800 rpm, that to me seems to a function of the VFD (NOT an electrician here)
is there a concern wrt heat build up if run at lower speed, hence the TEFC spec
is 1 hp adequate


then moving onto the sacrificial speaker
previously there are no specs, found by me, for the xplod,
is there a "preferred" Xmax , i.e. is 12-15mm good?
is more better
realizing that the excursion is translated into vane deflection/changes and that is dependent on the rate of change due to the geometry of the RC thingy


just trying to simplify this whole thing to clarify (understood by me) each components own "needs", function
and knowingly/hopefully optimize the build/results synergistically


looking for "dero zeffects"

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #59 of 295 Old 04-22-2015, 12:42 PM
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post #60 of 295 Old 04-22-2015, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Anyone else smell that?

It smells like Rotary Sub flat pack in here...
I'd presume there's at least one patent on the rotary sub that would prevent that from happening.
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