Alpine SWR-1042D - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Alpine SWR-1042D (and build thread)

Good Morning,

First post here, but I've been lurking these past few weeks looking at DIY speaker projects, and think I'm ready for my first project.

I have a sub that used to be in my Jeep that is now just sitting around doing nothing. Alpine SWR-1042D

I'd like to build an enclosure for it and get it amped up, but I need a little help from you guys.

Its going to be in a basement room that's about 12' x 12' with 6.5' ceilings. I know that the sub is probably too small to fill it, but I have the sub and want to put it to use. Even if I feel need to add a sub later. I'd like an opinion on what you think of the driver itself though. Is it even worth it? It looks well made.

I cant post the link but the PDF says that the power range is 200-500W RMS. This sub has two 4ohm coils. I'm not sure if that range is for each coil, or total. Basically Im trying to size up an amp, and I'm not sure how much power it can handle. Any help here is appreciated.

I plan to build a ported enclosure, unless you see a reason to go sealed.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Dr_Boom; 08-05-2015 at 12:06 PM.
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post #2 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 05:49 AM
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Type R Alpine subwoofers are excellent. They do well in ported, sealed, 4th order and 6th order. If you want to fill your room though, a normal ported enclosure should do fine. Unless you want 140db in your room one of these will do quite well for normal 95-100db or so listening. Won't go far below 40hz though, just not enough cone displacement for that. But room gain should make up for a bit in that area.
Alpine has recommended vented enclosures for these on their website (just google the subwoofer model), they do nicely, just use some proper fibrous filler material to eliminate echoes inside the enclosure.
Not sure what amp solution you should go with, don't know anything about your other electronics.
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post #3 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 05:53 AM
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12x12 isn't the biggest room, but still the 10" is pretty small. you will probably want a lot more once you get started, so you may consider spending a little more money up front and getting an amp such as the inuke 3000dsp which can power that sub no problem off one channel. but also has a lot of power in reserve for when you buy some bigger drivers. this way you won't get stuck with having to buy another amp when you decide to upgrade.

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post #4 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Not sure what amp solution you should go with, don't know anything about your other electronics.


Sorry, I forgot to include that in the post, however there's not much to it. I have an Onkyo A/V receiver with LFE, 4 mismatched bookshelf speakers, a Polk center, and a crappy JBL sub. I'd like to eventually upgrade everything except the receiver. 70%music/30%movies-TV. We're on step .1


I have checked out their PDF on this sub, but I don't know if the power handling ratings are for each coil or a total. I may just have to call them tomorrow to find out.


Thanks for the input.
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post #5 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
12x12 isn't the biggest room, but still the 10" is pretty small. you will probably want a lot more once you get started, so you may consider spending a little more money up front and getting an amp such as the inuke 3000dsp which can power that sub no problem off one channel. but also has a lot of power in reserve for when you buy some bigger drivers. this way you won't get stuck with having to buy another amp when you decide to upgrade.
With this solution do I run the risk of blowing the driver?
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post #6 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 06:20 AM
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Crappy JBL sub? Never heard of such a model
No, you won't risk blowing the sub with any amp if you just set the gain low enough for the subwoofer.
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post #7 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 06:51 AM
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For a Home Theater style subwoofer, I'd recommend a 2.5 Cube box tuned to 20Hz.

You should not use more than 750W RMS in this alignment as you'll be reaching both the mechanical and thermal limits after that.

Jim

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post #8 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 07:38 AM
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The ten inch SWR is capable of reaching xmax at 20hz in a microscopic enclosure, let alone a 20hz tuned box.
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post #9 of 39 Old 07-12-2015, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Boom View Post
With this solution do I run the risk of blowing the driver?

good question. it has a limiter that you can set for any amount of power that you wish.

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post #10 of 39 Old 07-13-2015, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
good question. it has a limiter that you can set for any amount of power that you wish.
Thank you. That's great to know.

One more question.

With this driver I can wire it a few different ways. Through one channel of the inuke3000 I can run both coils in series at 8ohms or both coils in parallel at 2ohms. Or I can use both channels of the inuke and run both coils individually at 4ohms each.

I'm leaning towards two channels to keep the load low on the amp. But if anyone out there has any experience or another option, I'd love to hear it.

I found this image in a Google search. But it is the same driver that I own and these are the terminals.
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post #11 of 39 Old 07-13-2015, 04:33 PM
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Bridge the amp (a switch at the back somewhere, see manual), then bridge the gap on the subwoofer between one of the plus to one of the minus on the subwoofer, and connect the remaining plus and minus to the right bridged output on the amp (manual says what amp outputs to use for plus and minus when bridged). Then adjust gain. For that you'll need a multimeter to check the AC voltage over the amp output so you can adjust it to where it has the right voltage. Over 8 ohm on the 10 inch type R that's 63 volts RMS (root mean square, the meter says so on the setting). Remember to use the right wire and setting on the multimeter, or it will literally go boom. Not figuratively. The voltage should be 63 volts RMS when your volume knob is all the way on the extra loud setting.
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post #12 of 39 Old 07-13-2015, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Then adjust gain. For that you'll need a multimeter to check the AC voltage over the amp output so you can adjust it to where it has the right voltage. Over 8 ohm on the 10 inch type R that's 63 volts RMS (root mean square, the meter says so on the setting). Remember to use the right wire and setting on the multimeter, or it will literally go boom. Not figuratively. The voltage should be 63 volts RMS when your volume knob is all the way on the extra loud setting.
Uh what? What signal should he use when setting the gain? Should he be at all concerned about the SPL of his sub at his seat matching his other speakers or just what the multimeter says?
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post #13 of 39 Old 07-13-2015, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Boom View Post
Thank you. That's great to know.

One more question.

With this driver I can wire it a few different ways. Through one channel of the inuke3000 I can run both coils in series at 8ohms or both coils in parallel at 2ohms. Or I can use both channels of the inuke and run both coils individually at 4ohms each.

pays your money and takes your chances. that really depends how hard you plan to run the driver. in series at 8 ohms, you get about 300 watts or so. one coil per side at 4 ohms and power goes to 1200 watts or so, but the limiter could be engaged to reduce power.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #14 of 39 Old 07-13-2015, 07:17 PM
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also, for the enclosure, i'd suggest 4 cubic feet tuned to 20hz with a 2" tall x 10" wide slot port that is 27" long.

with a 2nd order high pass filter at 20hz (2nd order buterworth high pass at 20hz on inuke) and a 4th order low pass at 80hz (in the AVR, do nothing on inuke), 300 watts gets you something like this. all other factors (air velocity, excursion, first port resonance, etc. are all good too).


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post #15 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Uh what? What signal should he use when setting the gain? Should he be at all concerned about the SPL of his sub at his seat matching his other speakers or just what the multimeter says?
As LTD02's model shows, the levels we're talking about aren't exactly huge. If his system gives 110db cranked to the max (easily done with cheap hardware) and his subwoofer is giving 105db its not much difference from having 110db subwoofer on 110db system. He can always fiddle with it but that requires a proper mic or properly weighted db-meter.
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post #16 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
As LTD02's model shows, the levels we're talking about aren't exactly huge. If his system gives 110db cranked to the max (easily done with cheap hardware) and his subwoofer is giving 105db its not much difference from having 110db subwoofer on 110db system. He can always fiddle with it but that requires a proper mic or properly weighted db-meter.
There's a huge difference if his subwoofer is set 5dB quieter than his mains.
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post #17 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 05:52 AM
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Stereodude, have you ever heard the difference between a 30hz sine wave at 105db and a 30hz sine wave at 110db?
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post #18 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Stereodude, have you ever heard the difference between a 30hz sine wave at 105db and a 30hz sine wave at 110db?
I don't sit around listening to sine waves. Do you?

I have heard the results of a subwoofer that's set 5dB too low though. You can't properly set the gain / volume of a subwoofer with a multimeter. You need a SPL meter, or better a measurement microphone.
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post #19 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 06:17 AM
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If you don't listen to sine waves how could you possibly know if 5db too little bass is "a lot"?
I wash my hands with this thread. Good luck OP.
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post #20 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Bridge the amp
Sorry, but if I'm going with the inuke3000, what's the purpose of bridging if one channel from the amp far exceeds the power handling of the driver?

I should also clarify my earlier questions about wiring the driver. I wanted to know what the pros and cons were for wiring the coils in series/parallel/individual. Audible differences? I figured running in two channel mode will be easier on the amp. Is that why you recommend bridging? In both cases there's power to spare, and the amp won't break a sweat. But if bridging the amp powering a driver wired in series makes the most sense, I'd like to know why.
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post #21 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
If you don't listen to sine waves how could you possibly know if 5db too little bass is "a lot"?
Having your sub set 5dB too quiet is not a good thing it should be set at the same SPL as the mains, so it blends properly with no over emphasis of low frequencies or lack of low frequencies. Hence the need for a SPL meter or a measurement microphone to set the gain / levels on your subwoofer. Pink noise would be the correct signal to use for a simple setup with a SPL meter.
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post #22 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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also, for the enclosure, i'd suggest 4 cubic feet tuned to 20hz with a 2" tall x 10" wide slot port that is 27" long.
The cut sheet on the sub calls for .6 cubic foot sealed, or 1.3 cubed vented. Vented tuned to 33hz.

Considering I have zero experience in this field, I'm inclined to follow recommendations on this board. I only question it because I was planning to build The alpine recommended sealed box. From what I read about pros/cons regarding the two options, I like the idea of the punchier sounding base of the sealed enclosure. I'm not too concerned about the ability to get lower and more rumbly. I prefer it tighter and more musical. If I'm wrong about my assumptions let me know.

Thanks for the help.
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post #23 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 07:02 AM
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The 10" type R does very well in the recommended enclosure, you can hit the 500 watt RMS power level without exceeding xmax then. Because of its massive VAS (really low number = really high resistance) it can probably go down to a tune of like 28hz and still not exceed xmax by more than a millimeter or two at 500 watt RMS. But below that, well, I'm not going to recommend you try it. Would probably go fine as long as you don't completely crank it to 20hz sine waves, but... LTD02 does have enough expertise to recommend 20hz tune without it being bollocks, I would refer to his justifications for doing so.

I suggested to bridge so you don't have lots of load on one channel and no load on the other. Imagine the gain setting as a block of wood under your gas pedal on your car. That block of wood decides how much go-juice you can give the engine. As long as the block is the right height, you can blast any music at any volume setting and not give the engine or tyres more than they can handle. This holds true while bridged also.
FYI: If the block is too large (gain too low), you won't get the rated power from the subwoofer, and too low a tune could require a tiny less power from the subwoofer so as to not exceed xmax.

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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Having your sub set 5dB too quiet is not a good thing it should be set at the same SPL as the mains, so it blends properly with no over emphasis of low frequencies or lack of low frequencies. Hence the need for a SPL meter or a measurement microphone to set the gain / levels on your subwoofer. Pink noise would be the correct signal to use for a simple setup with a SPL meter.
Its one ten inch subwoofer, he won't get a flat response. If he measures it and get a flat response at one square inch where the mic was placed, it won't be flat elsewhere. The far corners will have +5db and the middle will have -5db etc. That's why I tried to get OP to not bother.
If you use pink noise you need a mic as well.

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post #24 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 07:07 AM
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It has a 60mm mechanical excursion. It's tough to bottom it out. 18.2 XMAX

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post #25 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 07:14 AM
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If the cut sheet from alpine is for a box that goes inside a car you are probably going to be disappointed in the overall amount of bass you get when you put the box in a house instead of a car.

The car gives huge gain to Frequencies below 60-80Hz. For example the specs for the infinity 1260 came with a graph showing in-car vs out-of-car, it is dramatic! You can google it and see the difference, it will be similar for the alpine.

When I built my 1260 I set it up in WinISD like LTD02 did above and got a much larger enclosure than was recommended for in-car. The size of the enclosure and port help to offset the lack of in-car gain that the manufacturer expected in their sealed and ported recommended sizes.

A well designed sealed and a well designed ported will both sound good.

And just a quick reference, LTD02 has a ton of successful designs that he has built or designed for others!
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post #26 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Its one ten inch subwoofer, he won't get a flat response. If he measures it and get a flat response at one square inch where the mic was placed, it won't be flat elsewhere. The far corners will have +5db and the middle will have -5db etc.
*sigh* Which is why he should set it up at the MLP where he sits. It doesn't matter how it blends in all the other places he isn't listening from.

Quote:
That's why I tried to get OP to not bother.
This is terrible advice. You really think he should make no attempt to adjust the subwoofer for the proper listening level relative to the mains at his seat because he can't get an even response everywhere in the room?
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post #27 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Boom View Post
The cut sheet on the sub calls for .6 cubic foot sealed, or 1.3 cubed vented. Vented tuned to 33hz.

Considering I have zero experience in this field, I'm inclined to follow recommendations on this board. I only question it because I was planning to build The alpine recommended sealed box. From what I read about pros/cons regarding the two options, I like the idea of the punchier sounding base of the sealed enclosure. I'm not too concerned about the ability to get lower and more rumbly. I prefer it tighter and more musical. If I'm wrong about my assumptions let me know.

Thanks for the help.
That sub is designed for car audio where space requirements are tight, cabin gain is high, and they don't play as low. For home theater you'll want to dig lower (atleast to 20hz) so you'll want to go bigger and tune lower.

If you stick with the spec sheet you'll be pretty underwhelmed. Go with what LTD is talking about and you'll have a pretty powerful 10" setup.
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post #29 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 07:38 AM
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Stereodude, we could all just pile on ten decades of acoustic science on this poor guy who just wants to put his spare subwoofer into a box and get a somewhat better bass response on his system. But then we're off topic. If the topic was "Hey i want perfect +/- 0.1db 105db across 10-20000hz in every square inch of all my listening positions and I have unlimited resources and tools at my disposal", sure, but that's not what he asked for.

Shan, the 10" woofer don't magically have more xmax the lower tune you have, the db he gets at 20hz is hard-capped by the cone area and excursion! Lower tune will only make him hit that hard cap at lower wattage, so the 30hz and above area gets hard-capped far below rated power. Its an unnecessary EQ filter OP didn't ask for.

EDIT: A huge horn to add efficiency would give more db at 20hz than the hard-cap in a closed enclosure, as would certain other enclosure designs.

Last edited by ronny31; 07-14-2015 at 07:43 AM.
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post #30 of 39 Old 07-14-2015, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Stereodude, we could all just pile on ten decades of acoustic science on this poor guy who just wants to put his spare subwoofer into a box and get a somewhat better bass response on his system. But then we're off topic. If the topic was "Hey i want perfect +/- 0.1db 105db across 10-20000hz in every square inch of all my listening positions and I have unlimited resources and tools at my disposal", sure, but that's not what he asked for.
Having him use a SPL meter to set the level on his subwoofer is not off topic. It's a key element to his making his request happen. Using a multimeter to measure the voltage at the sub is not.
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