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Old 08-15-2015, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Ideas needed on hanging PA speakers from ceiling for Dolby Atmos

I want to hang four Mackie C200 from my ceiling, for Dolby Atmos but I don't know a way to do it that looks half way decent. I'm fishing for ideas. The Sony Platinum in-wall I'm currently using aren't going to cut it - they lack the dynamics I want, and sound quite different than the Mackie in all channel stereo.


I have an HVAC drop down that runs parallel to my projector screen wall over my seating position, and my theater seats are placed pretty much directly beneath the HVAC drop down. I plan to put two speakers in front and two speakers behind the HVAC drop down for four Atmos speakers total.


I know Mackie sells fly kits - but they are silly expensive at $50 each, and I'd need 2 per speaker. I don't want to spend $400 on speaker mounts.


The Mackie C200 have a wedge shape for use as a floor monitor which should work reasonably well as a ceiling mount as well. Problem is I have a drop ceiling with acoustic tiles, so I can't just drill them in flush with the drop ceiling. I'm trying to think of a way that I could anchor the speaker to the drywall and wood stud drywall framing around the HVAC dropdown instead, and leave the ceiling unmolested. I can remove the 10" woofer and drill through the Mackie plastic cabinets and mount the speakers to the wood directly as one alternative. I'm not opposed to hanging them from wires using a home made fly kit either I suppose if I can figure out a way to do it that doesn't look too bad and would be easy to use through the Certainteed theater black f acoustic tile. I've even considered taking the drivers and crossover out of the plastic box and building them into a new wooden box that would be easier to hang and use a SEOS horn.


Take a look at the pics and see if you can offer any suggestions? Oh and of course the drop ceiling metal framework is not even/centered over the main listening position - so if I try to go between the metal grid and flush with the floor joists above - then the speakers will not be equal distant from the MLP.




































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Old 08-15-2015, 07:40 PM
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Box in the hvac. You make it as wide as you wish in both directions so you can then mount any way you wish. Would look nicer as well. If I did atmos I think I would want flush for them.
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:01 PM
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And perhaps cut the tags off of the seat covers
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:16 PM
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Personally I would never hang anything from a duct.
I would use a piece of threaded rod through the drop ceiling panel.
Mount it to one of the joists with a steel L-bracket.

Mounting to the speaker is the easy part.
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Old 08-15-2015, 09:16 PM
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Do you happen to know what the wood studs on center is?
At 30lbs a simple U shaped bracket wide enough to where the back mounts to the wall making sure you catch a least one stud then screw / bolt into the top and bottom of the Mackie.

Alternate idea is to turn 90 degrees (although vertical dispersion is 10 degrees less) and utilize the pole mount but this would be dependent on a studs being in the optimal locations as you definitely would have to hit one

Hybrid though is the U shaped bracket with the one end using the pole mount and the other has a bolt through and a nut..... this would allow some adjustability to rotate on the pole mount and tighten with nut and bolt when in position.
Looks like the top have a metal plate what would help in the stiffness on the top of the speaker

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Old 08-16-2015, 01:42 PM
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:19 PM
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i've been thinking about the question for a while too. not sure where I saw it, but somewhere speakers were mounted in something like a track similar to that used for track lighting. this would allow the speaker to be moved and or removed with little fanfare because the speaker wires can run in the track and the track mounts on, not in, the ceiling. it also allows for multiple speakers and/or easy changing of speaker positions (along the track).


if I run into anything better, i'll kick it your way.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:49 PM
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here's the idea:


http://adapttechgroup.com/ne-cinema2.html
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Old 08-16-2015, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
Do you happen to know what the wood studs on center is?
At 30lbs a simple U shaped bracket wide enough to where the back mounts to the wall making sure you catch a least one stud then screw / bolt into the top and bottom of the Mackie.

Alternate idea is to turn 90 degrees (although vertical dispersion is 10 degrees less) and utilize the pole mount but this would be dependent on a studs being in the optimal locations as you definitely would have to hit one

Hybrid though is the U shaped bracket with the one end using the pole mount and the other has a bolt through and a nut..... this would allow some adjustability to rotate on the pole mount and tighten with nut and bolt when in position.
Looks like the top have a metal plate what would help in the stiffness on the top of the speaker
Alternate idea won't work because the 80* vertical dispersion wouldn't hit the seats - I held it up and looked at it though to checked - seemed like a good idea.

i'm not sure I understand your first idea?

The top handle plate can be removed and I can use eybolts where the handle is. I can pull the rubber feet off an use eybolts on the bottom too if that helps.

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Originally Posted by d_c View Post
Are you wanting to have the speaker face flush with the drop ceiling or completely below it?
I'm undecided. What do you recommend?

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Old 08-16-2015, 03:23 PM
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You could probably use some metal pipe and elbows to use the pole mount.

If the studs aren't where you need them, just screw a sheet of plywood in to the studs, paint to match, and hang the speakers from that.
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Old 08-16-2015, 03:52 PM
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Quick schetchup drawing, screws or bolts through the tops and bottom of the speaker
Use real wood and thick (min 3/4") or better yet metal

Tops view


Bottom View with a mackie picture, speaker is draw to scale with just the outside dimensions and picture, obviously the speaker has a way different shape


To "pretty" it up you could do the side pieces tapered to center also
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Old 08-16-2015, 05:56 PM
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does something like that get you anywhere?


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Old 08-16-2015, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I like that idea waterboy77.

Functional and easy to make.

LTD02. The ceiling tiles are acoustic absorption panels. Basically oc703 with black, light absorbant, material on one facing. So reflecting the sound isn't ideal.

Thanks for the ideas all. I haven't bought anything yet, I'll consider options a bit more and unless something better comes up I'll probably go with waterboys concept mixed with rhodej's idea of having a stromg backplate secured to the 2x4 frame of the hvac drop down.
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Old 08-16-2015, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpin111 View Post
Personally I would never hang anything from a duct.
I would use a piece of threaded rod through the drop ceiling panel.
Mount it to one of the joists with a steel L-bracket.

Mounting to the speaker is the easy part.
Do you mean you wouldn't hang anything from the 2x4 stud framing that goes around the hvac?

Each speakers weighs 26lbs, so I suppose that's 100lbs on the framing. Could that be a problem?
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Do you mean you wouldn't hang anything from the 2x4 stud framing that goes around the hvac?

Each speakers weighs 26lbs, so I suppose that's 100lbs on the framing. Could that be a problem?
I guess it depends on how sturdy it is and if it's touching the duct at all. I don't know how it's constructed.
I would be pretty unhappy if somehow vibration from the speaker caused the duct to make "tinging or banging" noises.

I'm not too sure how much room you have between the framing and the duct.

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Old 08-16-2015, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Do you mean you wouldn't hang anything from the 2x4 stud framing that goes around the hvac?

Each speakers weighs 26lbs, so I suppose that's 100lbs on the framing. Could that be a problem?

Looks like you could move a couple of ceiling tiles and look how close it is and the construction. In the area where the speakers would be and a couple more screws if concerned. (I've never been a fan of nails though)
If its a "typical" 2x4 ladder screwed to the joists you could do a couple chin ups to test it
Also depending on access you could put in a couple 2x4 or 2x6 as backers instead of the plywood on the surface.

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Old 08-16-2015, 08:25 PM
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:02 PM
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I would just try to find a deal on the brackets Mackie sells. For commercial installs speakers have to be hung by a certified rigger and have to be chained and locked.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:43 AM
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I would do exactly what Waterboy drew up there with a single bolt running through each end with a wing-nut so you can aim them if needed. Also, if you can get them to be flush with the ceiling panels, make a cutout in one of the panels for the sound and wrap the panel in black AT fabric to conceal your speaker and bracket. Would be much easier than trying to avoid the beefy bracket look and trying to make it look pretty. Beefy would be better to make it rattle-free. (do you ever have those days that you can't type?! fat fingers today...)
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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So I have probably 2-3 inches of clearance above the drop ceiling to the joist. The joist are standard width.

I could put them in one way and lean them down easily enough in a typical 'fly' manner - but the l/r spacing might be off to the MLP.



I don't think I have the clearance to make them flush with the drop ceiling no matter what I do.

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Old 08-17-2015, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
So I have probably 2-3 inches of clearance above the drop ceiling to the joist. The joist are standard width.

I could put them in one way and lean them down easily enough in a typical 'fly' manner - but the l/r spacing might be off to the MLP.



I don't think I have the clearance to make them flush with the drop ceiling no matter what I do.
I was planning to screw 4 'D' rings on the back of my ed6c corners...one on each corner, and then use 2 varying lengths of steel cable to adjust angle. And just hang both cables on screw in eye hooks...or just one hook if possible, which would be anchored in ceiling studs...with your drop ceiling, you could just run another pair of hanging cable down from support beams to drop ceiling level to hook with the cables on the speaker as well...


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Old 08-17-2015, 01:47 PM
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Hey Archaea,

Should have prolly read this a bit closer (not sure if this is feasible with your dropped ceiling), but you can bet I wasn't paying QSC's $110+ tag for their brackets...I built four of these for $30...and I can deflect them down pretty damn well...








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Old 08-17-2015, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
So I have probably 2-3 inches of clearance above the drop ceiling to the joist. The joist are standard width.

I could put them in one way and lean them down easily enough in a typical 'fly' manner - but the l/r spacing might be off to the MLP.



I don't think I have the clearance to make them flush with the drop ceiling no matter what I do.

lots of those kinds of pictures came up while looking around. however, the Mackie uses the 4x m5 screw holes at each end to attach the rigging plates.


if those holes shown are just inserts glued in, they don't qualify as "rigging points" and I wouldn't sit under them, much less hang them over my kids head.


http://www.mackie.com/pdf/C200_SRM350_Brkt_Install.pdf


deja vu here. I feel like we have had this conversation before and I posted that same link. not that that has any relevance to anything. :-)


another thought is to make your own rigging points by drilling the cab and putting a very large washer on the inside.

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Old 08-19-2015, 04:31 AM
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sorry. this one has been bugging me. :-)


home made speaker rigging v1.0:


suspended horizontal bar. speakers can rotate forward and backward and slide left to right.







vertical steel tubes mount to joists. bolts through tubes through joists then washer/lock washer/nut. spacing doesn't really matter. speakers can be aligned left to right wherever they work best.





tubing connector "T" has bolts that go all the way through with lock washer and nut on backside. eyebolt with steel cable/wire simply as backup. structure should easily support your body weight. :-)



diy speaker rigging. "flanged connector clamp" slides onto horizontal tube, so it can't fall off. bolts attached to wood blocks. round wood block for insert to bottom of speaker. top rigging flush with top of cab. uses 4x m5 rigging bolts to connect to speaker.







bottom of the riggings are secured with washers/lock washers/nuts.



rear finished view. fishing a steel cable through top handle would be another layer of safety. the "flanged connector clamps" can then be tightened to hold the speaker at the correct angle.









.....................




optional wooden vertical structure. this one has a hole drilled through on each side and a steel cable/wire strung through as a secondary safety.

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Old 08-19-2015, 05:17 AM
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actually, there is a MUCH easier way to get a horizontal pole in place--threaded iron plumbing pipe. lowe's (probably hd too) carries it in a variety of diameters and lengths, already threaded. 90 degree bends. "floor flange fitting" is the thing that attaches to the top. just run a 2x6" across under the joists. lag bolt it to the joists. bolt the whole thing to the 2x6. again should be able to carry your weight. no chance of it coming undone. just have to slide on the flanged connector clamps for the diy speaker rigging before it is installed.







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Old 08-19-2015, 05:38 AM
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there is a pretty creative way to do it. the challenge would be getting the length of pipe to match up to the joist spacing (and/or getting the nub pieces at the top to fill in any overshoot). other than that, seems like an elegant solution. guys are using these for pullup bars, so they will probably hold 50lbs of speakers with plenty of load factor.


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Old 08-19-2015, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I like this series of ideas LTD02. Thanks for the suggestions, and continuing to flesh out your ideas!

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Old 08-19-2015, 11:20 AM
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this one builds on previous concepts.


as before, iron pipe to get the horizontal bar in place.


simple plywood end caps that attach to the speaker. drilled with 5 holes. 4 for the m5 bolts and 1 large one for the horizontal bar to pass through.


the speakers would tend to 'rock' back and forth and might not settle at the precise angle. to adjust the angle, a pair of weight lifting quick clamps can attach to the horizontal bar. by rotating them the angle of the speaker can be adjusted. if you aren't familiar with them, when you pinch them you can rotate them. when released, they lock onto the bar. you look like you have probably seen them before. :-) I'm not sure if the spring clips would work better than regular collars, but I'm sure something can be found to lock onto the bar and prevent the speaker from moving.


as an extra measure of safety a simple wire can be wrapped through the handles and over the bar. it doesn't bear any load unless somehow the m5 manage to come loose. Loctite washers/then lock washers should prevent that though.


the only downside with placing the horizontal bar in the "nook" created for placing the cab on the floor as a wedge monitor is that the speakers won't be symmetrical left/right. the horn will be on the left side for both the left and right speakers. of course, the side plates could be made to extend further back so the hole could be symmetrical left/right, but then the weight of the speaker will be further from the pivot point. not sure if that makes adjustability more difficult or not.






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Old 08-19-2015, 11:28 AM
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Why not just get a more appropriate speaker to the application? You can buy smaller speakers, easier to mount, with wider dispersion.

Atmos does not need a monster speaker, and being so close to you, it's going to be plenty loud. remember you lose -6db for each double of distance, so if your ceiling is as a low as it looks in the picture, hitting reference or keeping up with the mains farther away won't at all be a problem.

Your ceiling looks way to low for that kind of set up you are attempting IMO.
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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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Old 08-19-2015, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
the challenge would be getting the length of pipe to match up to the joist spacing (and/or getting the nub pieces at the top to fill in any overshoot).
HD (and probably lowes) is happy to cut these pipes to length, and to re-thread them...all for free.
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