The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 529 Old 12-06-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
It was a bit harder to see the voice coil on the PA460 without any venting under the spider, though I found it is possible to look through the spider with a bright flashlight.

Looking at it more the top plate could be 7.5mm rather then 0.3 inches, which makes more sense for metric dimensions. Though we are literally splitting hairs at that point (<0.005").

The coil height looks to be roughly 19mm which gives an overhang of 5.75mm if using the 7.5mm gap height. Though I am sure there is some margin of error in my measurements because I can't get a super clear view looking through the spider. It could easily be 19.5mm which give 6mm of coil overhang.

thanks again matt and really great work on building out a sub around this driver to demonstrate what it can do (including the dsp design). i expect that it will be a *very* popular one.
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post #32 of 529 Old 12-07-2015, 03:33 AM
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LTD02, how does this driver and enclosure combo (combined with DSP) perform compared to the 15" Dayton DVC that runs roughly $100?
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post #33 of 529 Old 12-14-2015, 09:04 AM
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How many of these would it take to match a single lilwrecker with the alpine driver?
I'm close to building a lilwrecker, but it sure would be nice to have smaller multiple subs and spread them out a little. Also, the build would be easier too.
I already have an inuke 3000dsp, so that's what I'll be using either way.


Thanks in advance
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post #34 of 529 Old 12-16-2015, 08:51 AM
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The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread

Wondering since there is a 12" and 15" speaker listed right under the value buster 18" sub can these work to? How would they perform. Would these be a great value along with the flex-12.... How would the flex-12 compare to the Dayton PA310-8 12" woofer or the 15. The price of the 12" 65.50. Having 2 of those for midbass would be a deal! What do you guys think

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post #35 of 529 Old 12-16-2015, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
Wondering since there is a 12" and 15" speaker listed right under the value buster 18" sub can these work to? How would they perform. Would these be a great value along with the flex-12.... How would the flex-12 compare to the Dayton PA310-8 12" woofer or the 15. The price of the 12" 65.50. Having 2 of those for midbass would be deal! What do you guys think
I would love to see a mid-bass design based on the PA380.
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post #36 of 529 Old 12-17-2015, 03:07 AM
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1 x pa460 in 6.5 c.f. tuned to 22hz (red)
2 x pa380 in 6.5 c.f. tuned to 22hz (black)
500 watts total.
response is almost...identical. max output would depend on knowing a little more about the pa380. if usable excursion follows the 1mm xmax disadvantage, then output should be about 2db more in the excursion limited zone and a little more outside of that (perhaps 4-5db in the upper bass).





edit: looks like the t/s specs changed again. lol. these guys. it would be nice if they could keep the same specs when using the same model number. this gets very confusing.


edit 2: with the current pa380 specs (green line), this is how it shapes up. same comparo. 2 drivers 6.5 c.f. tuned 22hz 500w. pretty much the same performance despite the t/s changes.


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post #37 of 529 Old 12-17-2015, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
1 x pa460 in 6.5 c.f. tuned to 22hz (red)
2 x pa380 in 6.5 c.f. tuned to 22hz (black)
500 watts total.
response is almost...identical. max output would depend on knowing a little more about the pa380. if usable excursion follows the 1mm xmax disadvantage, then output should be about 2db more in the excursion limited zone and a little more outside of that (perhaps 4-5db in the upper bass).





edit: looks like the t/s specs changed again. lol. these guys. it would be nice if they could keep the same specs when using the same model number. this gets very confusing.


edit 2: with the current pa380 specs (green line), this is how it shapes up. same comparo. 2 drivers 6.5 c.f. tuned 22hz 500w. pretty much the same performance despite the t/s changes.


Winisd only seems to give +3 for a second driver rather than +6, in my experience
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post #38 of 529 Old 12-17-2015, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by chadamir View Post
Winisd only seems to give +3 for a second driver rather than +6, in my experience

winisd will show +3db when doubling drivers and cab volume as the system sensitivity is doubled by doing that.


however, when using a second driver, power can be doubled as well, providing the second 3db for a total of 6db when doubling drivers/cabs/power.
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post #39 of 529 Old 12-17-2015, 10:32 AM
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I like the idea, maybe tuned higher in a smaller cabinet to use as a stand for mains.
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post #40 of 529 Old 12-18-2015, 01:01 PM
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Any idea how two of the V.B.B.S.s would do as part of a built in cabinet? Obviously the cabinet would be built around the subs.
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post #41 of 529 Old 12-18-2015, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugoofbluem View Post
Any idea how two of the V.B.B.S.s would do as part of a built in cabinet? Obviously the cabinet would be built around the subs.
ugoofbluem,
I like they way you think. I'm pursuing a similar idea, for a brief discussion, see post #157 of this link:
Flex-12 and V.B.S.S 18'' sub GTG Meet
Hoping to start building this during the Holidays
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post #42 of 529 Old 12-18-2015, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post
ugoofbluem,
I like they way you think. I'm pursuing a similar idea, for a brief discussion, see post #157 of this link:
Flex-12 and V.B.S.S 18'' sub GTG Meet
Hoping to start building this during the Holidays
That design looks like the enclosure would move and rock around, or will it be attached to something?
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post #43 of 529 Old 12-18-2015, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Lower moving mass on the woofers (2-3 times less then the more common 18" sub drivers) means less energy gets transferred into the cabinet and therefore less rocking.

I should have grabbed some of those PA380's from the PE tent sale this year, I think they had some marked down to $10 or maybe $8 each. I don't think the suspension was as compliant as the PA460. I have some of the 310's and they are very stiff and the suspension does not let them move much past their rated xmax and it's already quite noisy at that point. Should be fine used as a mid bass driver though.
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post #44 of 529 Old 12-19-2015, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Lower moving mass on the woofers (2-3 times less then the more common 18" sub drivers) means less energy gets transferred into the cabinet and therefore less rocking.

I should have grabbed some of those PA380's from the PE tent sale this year, I think they had some marked down to $10 or maybe $8 each. I don't think the suspension was as compliant as the PA460. I have some of the 310's and they are very stiff and the suspension does not let them move much past their rated xmax and it's already quite noisy at that point. Should be fine used as a mid bass driver though.
What are you doing with the 310's?
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post #45 of 529 Old 12-19-2015, 08:15 AM
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What would a single PA380 look like?
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post #46 of 529 Old 12-19-2015, 10:07 AM
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What are you doing with the 310's?
He wants to put two in an MTM with a Volt or Concentric rolled in at about 300 Hz.

Oh wait. That's what I want him to do. ;-)
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post #47 of 529 Old 12-20-2015, 02:55 AM
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He wants to put two in an MTM with a Volt or Concentric rolled in at about 300 Hz.

Oh wait. That's what I want him to do. ;-)
Well that would certainly be a good use for them! I have little knowledge wrt coax speakers, but I have read that there are some really nice ones out there, and they do have some advantages wrt to time alignment, amoung other things.
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post #48 of 529 Old 12-20-2015, 11:11 AM
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Wish someone would offer to build flat packs for these for us that don't have the room or skills to build!
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post #49 of 529 Old 12-20-2015, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post
ugoofbluem,
I like they way you think. I'm pursuing a similar idea, for a brief discussion, see post #157 of this link:
Flex-12 and V.B.S.S 18'' sub GTG Meet
Hoping to start building this during the Holidays
Looks good! I have the space to do two separate enclosures, that's the route I'm leaning now! I have a lot of room to fill!
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post #50 of 529 Old 12-20-2015, 03:19 PM
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What would a single PA380 look like?

a few posts back in the thread is a post showing 2 x pa380 vs 1 x pa460 in the same size cab and same tuning. those two systems model almost identically, so you could get the same frequency response with a 1 x pa380 in a cab exactly half as large and using 1/2 the ports (of course, you would get less output as well).

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post #51 of 529 Old 12-20-2015, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
a few posts back in the thread is a post showing 2 x pa380 vs 1 x pa460 in the same size cab and same tuning. those two systems model almost identically, so you could get the same frequency response with a 1 x pa380 in a cab exactly half as large and using 1/2 the ports (of course, you would get less output as well).
You'd have to make sure the depth of the cabinet stayed the same to keep the port the right distance from the back of the cabinet though right?
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post #52 of 529 Old 12-20-2015, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
a few posts back in the thread is a post showing 2 x pa380 vs 1 x pa460 in the same size cab and same tuning. those two systems model almost identically, so you could get the same frequency response with a 1 x pa380 in a cab exactly half as large and using 1/2 the ports (of course, you would get less output as well).
Thank you.

I asked Parts Express for a recommendation, for mid-bass use - I suggested the use as being 60Hz to 400 Hz.

I was surprised when they suggested 1.7 ft^3, with one 4" port 4" long, the box being tuned to 55Hz.
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post #53 of 529 Old 12-21-2015, 01:48 AM
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You'd have to make sure the depth of the cabinet stayed the same to keep the port the right distance from the back of the cabinet though right?

yes, good point.

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post #54 of 529 Old 12-21-2015, 01:52 AM
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Thank you.

I asked Parts Express for a recommendation, for mid-bass use - I suggested the use as being 60Hz to 400 Hz.

I was surprised when they suggested 1.7 ft^3, with one 4" port 4" long, the box being tuned to 55Hz.

well, that is kind of what you asked them for when you specified 60hz. a 55hz tuning in that size cab will provide a about a 1db bump in response in the 65-130hz region.

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post #55 of 529 Old 12-21-2015, 04:13 AM
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It looks like the best bang for your buck is the PA380. LTD02, can you tell us how the PA380 would perform versus the Infinity 1260 in vented enclosures? They are both priced similarly.
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post #56 of 529 Old 12-21-2015, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
a few posts back in the thread is a post showing 2 x pa380 vs 1 x pa460 in the same size cab and same tuning. those two systems model almost identically, so you could get the same frequency response with a 1 x pa380 in a cab exactly half as large and using 1/2 the ports (of course, you would get less output as well).
Thanks.

I guess my comment was prompted by my surprise you can actually use a 15" driver in an enclosure that small.
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post #57 of 529 Old 12-22-2015, 07:00 AM
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It looks like the best bang for your buck is the PA380. LTD02, can you tell us how the PA380 would perform versus the Infinity 1260 in vented enclosures? They are both priced similarly.

the lowend appears to be a little higher on the infinity and the upper end would be a little higher on the pa380.

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post #58 of 529 Old 12-22-2015, 07:02 AM
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Thanks.

I guess my comment was prompted by my surprise you can actually use a 15" driver in an enclosure that small.

the driver has a strong motor relative to its moving mass and cone area, which is why it works.

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post #59 of 529 Old 12-22-2015, 07:04 AM
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the driver has a strong motor relative to its moving mass and cone area, which is why it works.
Thanks - I'll try the 1.7ft^3 and see how it sounds.
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post #60 of 529 Old 12-22-2015, 07:08 AM
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