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post #1 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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FTW-21 ported build

Well the time is here to let the dust fly! Well into the suction hose But I have procrastinated long enough and it's time to start acting! I can hear the "Amen's" already lol. This was only my third whole 2 day weekend since mid August as work and other obligations went crazy then in laws for Thanksgiving. I'm sure I will miss some points but I will do my best. The plan is to have these two ported subs up front behind the screen on either side of the JBL 4722 center channel and obviously the L&R 4722's on outside of the FTW cabs. It will essentially be a solid horizontal baffle all across behind a planned 12ft acoustically transparent screen. Of course a couple inches in between all enclosure wall whether it be speakers or subs.

First off I have to give credit where credit is due. Jon (LTD02) has designed these cabs. I know several AVS-ers who have had Jon's help and certainly he is great on the forums. So MUCH THANKS to Jon for working with me on this and enduring my onslaught of questions

Specs
-18 cubic feet before driver and bracing
-15.7hz port tune
-24"x24"x76" final cab dimensions. Foot print is same as most do with sealed cabs at 24"
-Each of the two cabs will each their own channel from a Crest Pro Lite 7.5.
-Finish, not sure yet if I want to do Duratex or just paint black. They will be hidden so...
-Mini DSP to EQ
-Nuetrik NLM4PR connectors



Cut list will follow the mini marty style but obviously taller

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post #2 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Final Pics...



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post #3 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 10:30 AM
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These are going to be sweet!!

I would do windows where the dotted lines are and then strips connecting them then maybe a half window against the top

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post #4 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 02:41 PM
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key point: that's john with an "h". :-)
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post #5 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 03:00 PM
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FTW-21 ported build

Nice design once again, Hjon!

Maybe some window bracing like a tic-tac-toe board every 10" up the box with four 10" vertical braces between each window connecting them which would brace it top to bottom.


I made some cross bracing for this box below since I was wanting to use up scrap (probably went overboard with the amount). It would have been easier to cut windows out of a full panel:

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post #6 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 04:36 PM
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Can't wait to see measurements once you get the room completed. I like the "small" footprint with volume coming from height.

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post #7 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
key point: that's john with an "h". :-)

Nice build.

And here I thought it was Jawn the whole time...
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post #8 of 387 Old 12-14-2015, 07:56 PM
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FTW-21 ported build

Wow subscribed this is going to be sweet set up. I agree with above with the bracing. Just make sure you use plenty of pl adhesive on all the braces so nothing is lose.
Also with you having your slot ports facing out under the screen is a great idea I have mine facing outwards with fabric panels around the screen and the screen still shakes during heavy bass clips.
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post #9 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 06:28 AM
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i may have forgotten to mention that with a tall cab like that you can get internal standing modes/resonances. it wouldn't be a bad idea to stuff a bunch of polyfill pillows in around the center of the cab (the cheap walmart pillows). bracing can by just about anything. dowels/2x2 stock/mdf scrap, etc. the weak part of the panel is in the center. the edges and corners are naturally strong as they are. just make sure that the cabs are as solid as rocks and airtight around the seams. :-)

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post #10 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 06:33 AM
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mr. hurd did one of the best investigations of the effect of using pillows to kill internal standing waves in tall cabs:
Vented boxes and absorption

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post #11 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
These are going to be sweet!!

I would do windows where the dotted lines are and then strips connecting them then maybe a half window against the top
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post
Nice design once again, Hjon!

Maybe some window bracing like a tic-tac-toe board every 10" up the box with four 10" vertical braces between each window connecting them which would brace it top to bottom.

I made some cross bracing for this box below since I was wanting to use up scrap (probably went overboard with the amount). It would have been easier to cut windows out of a full panel:

Attachment 1120962
Okay I like the window style bracing at each red dotted line then vertical strips. For making the window pieces I assume one uses a jigsaw? And router if you want to round the edges? I actually can't recall seeing or reading any step by step process.


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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Can't wait to see measurements once you get the room completed. I like the "small" footprint with volume coming from height.
Yea it will be a long time coming when that actually happens :roll eyes: I won't go Tom Logan style and take a decade! I am hoping two years will give me enough time to build and fund the entire project.

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post #12 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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i may have forgotten to mention that with a tall cab like that you can get internal standing modes/resonances. it wouldn't be a bad idea to stuff a bunch of polyfill pillows in around the center of the cab (the cheap walmart pillows). bracing can by just about anything. dowels/2x2 stock/mdf scrap, etc. the weak part of the panel is in the center. the edges and corners are naturally strong as they are. just make sure that the cabs are as solid as rocks and airtight around the seams. :-)
Sounds good, I will take my wife with me to deplete the Eugene Walmart pillow stock

Yes the final product will be well made. I may not have sub enclosure experience but have used tools my whole working life and have done quite a bit of sealing work as well in numerous applications.
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post #13 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow subscribed this is going to be sweet set up. I agree with above with the bracing. Just make sure you use plenty of pl adhesive on all the braces so nothing is lose.
Also with you having your slot ports facing out under the screen is a great idea I have mine facing outwards with fabric panels around the screen and the screen still shakes during heavy bass clips.
Will do, need to swing by and grab some PL still. I assume it's normal to tack a couple brad nails into the brace from the outside of the box to hold it along with the PL?

Ports were planned that way for sure

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post #14 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 10:39 AM
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Okay I like the window style bracing at each red dotted line then vertical strips. For making the window pieces I assume one uses a jigsaw? And router if you want to round the edges? I actually can't recall seeing or reading any step by step process.




Yea it will be a long time coming when that actually happens :roll eyes: I won't go Tom Logan style and take a decade! I am hoping two years will give me enough time to build and fund the entire project.
But Tom did complete it in the end....

I am starting the research and development for a sub system that I will build when i retire from active duty in 2 yrs, 8 months, and 17 days.

I enjoy the R&D part, it's what I do for a living so I get a little obsessed in the details at times. The procurement is an additional, often harder, hurdle.

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post #15 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Gonna start tonight!!!

So I was planning on recessing the driver a bit. I like the look and the screen will be not far from the mains and subs. So I was thinking perhaps the double baffle piece on the inside should be at least 1" piece of plywood perhaps maybe a couple 0.75 pieces, thoughts?

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post #16 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 10:41 AM
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jigsaw works great for the windows. No need to router the edges unless you want to. Its easier to toenail the braces in from the inside with small brads than try and hit them from the outside, less filling and sanding too.
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post #17 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 10:45 AM
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The way Jon H drew it up has a single full baffle with another baffle behind it to make 1.5" to screw the driver into. As for recessing, most go with .75" but remember that adds to the total depth and wont make the driver any less close to the screen.

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post #18 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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The way Jon H drew it up has a single full baffle with another baffle behind it to make 1.5" to screw the driver into. As for recessing, most go with .75" but remember that adds to the total depth and wont make the driver any less close to the screen.
Yea we didn't get into discussing recessing the driver much. Originally yes a second 0.75 piece on the inside for 1.50 total. Thats why I mentioned going to a thicker piece but perhaps it may be best to not recess the driver. Any idea how much internal cab volume would be lost recessing it 0.75 and then using two additional 0.75 pieces on the inside? So technically it would be three 0.75 layers. The front baffle cut to recess the driver then two more pieces at the 30" on the inside for a total of 1.50 for screws to grab. But if it screws up volume forget it, these will be ultimately hidden. Not 100% sure if it's right but a random volume calculator online says the 22.5x30x0.75 second baffle piece eats about 0.292 cu ft.

I am not understanding how recessing the driver will not move it away from the screen however deep the recess is. If not recessed then the driver surround sticks out however thick it physically is, if recessed it moves back however far is decided correct?

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post #19 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 11:20 AM
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I am not understanding how recessing the driver will not move it away from the screen however deep the recess is. If not recessed then the driver surround sticks out however thick it physically is, if recessed it moves back however far is decided correct?
All of the recessed drivers I have seen have been an outer baffle. I have never seen someone recess the driver the way your talking about. Not sure how well that would work because if you do that, the only thing really attaching the driver to the enclosure is the PL holding the two inner baffles to it.

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post #20 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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All of the recessed drivers I have seen have been an outer baffle. I have never seen someone recess the driver the way your talking about. Not sure how well that would work because if you do that, the only thing really attaching the driver to the enclosure is the PL holding the two inner baffles to it.
Okay, I see what your saying. I think my confusion was the fact I did not know that 0.75 is the general recess depth people use. I hadn't really thought about a number but was assuming 3/8 to 1/2 inch or so. I agree recessing 0.75 and mounting driver to the smaller internal baffle piece may not be a good idea. Could always add an entire full length external piece if I really want to recess the driver that bad.

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post #21 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 11:35 AM
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Okay, I see what your saying. I think my confusion was the fact I did not know that 0.75 is the general recess depth people use. I hadn't really thought about a number but was assuming 3/8 to 1/2 inch or so. I agree recessing 0.75 and mounting driver to the smaller internal baffle piece may not be a good idea. Could always add an entire full length external piece if I really want to recess the driver that bad.
right, thats where my comment about it not changing how close the driver is to the screen. Unless you move the whole sub back, which you dont need to recess the driver to do. It does look nice but it will make the enclosure bigger and heavier, not to mention its more work, so doing it for something that wont be seen is a personal preference.

It will be more appealing when you sell it to upgrade though

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post #22 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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right, thats where my comment about it not changing how close the driver is to the screen. Unless you move the whole sub back, which you dont need to recess the driver to do. It does look nice but it will make the enclosure bigger and heavier, not to mention its more work, so doing it for something that wont be seen is a personal preference.

It will be more appealing when you sell it to upgrade though
I have thought about resale appeal. Although I am hoping to be "blown away" by these monsters and have a long term relationship

What about a mild recess? Like 3/8's? It's hard to tell if a small recess would make much visual impact. Naturally it feels it would have some cosmetic value if the recess was just enough to flush the the driver mounting metal part round thingy :roll eyes: But I can't remember the thickness of it, I do remember Nate saying it was pretty sturdy and thick. Maybe 3/8's (but no more than half thickness of the front front baffle piece) then a 1" second baffle piece. Seems that wouldn't change internal volume much, could have cosmetic appeal and still enough for driver to grab for mounting.

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post #23 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 11:58 AM
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that would work fine. Its easy to set your router to the right depth with the turret.

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post #24 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 12:01 PM
 
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What about cutting a plywood ring to attach to the inner baffle to give you more to screw into after you've recessed the driver into the outer baffle? It won't take much internal volume and gives that little extra grip. As long as you brace the **** out of the inners the baffles should be plenty strong to support all this. No?
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What about cutting a plywood ring to attach to the inner baffle to give you more to screw into after you've recessed the driver into the outer baffle? It won't take much internal volume and gives that little extra grip. As long as you brace the **** out of the inners the baffles should be plenty strong to support all this. No?

Plywood ring is a good idea see the picture attached.
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Yeah same basic idea. You could even do two 1/2" rings of ply for a total 1" thickness.. and some 1.75" screws.. those drivers will never pull out and you wouldn't have to worry about stripping out the mdf baffles. I don't think it would change internal volume any more than adding an extra brace or something. If I'm off on another planet with my thinking please correct me.
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No it should be fine. a 0.75x22.5x30 inner baffle piece is 0.292 cu ft, and same in 1" thickness was like 0.396 or something close. So little pieces or even a ring would be a fraction of those numbers. I may look into just recessing the driver to were the mounting ring is flush, should not be much. Maybe nothing at all, just thinking out loud here is all

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post #28 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 05:28 PM
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Damn that is a big box, it's only 8inches smaller than the HzHorn.

But I think your scaling might be off if those are SEOS-24's and your sub box is 24 wide.
I count 10ft wide, you may need a bigger screen to hide everything behind it; and you'll probably want at least a 1/4" spacing between each box so that they don't rub. So 10' 1"


If they are JBL's they'd be 30" wide I guess... which then the image scaling makes sense. Roughly ~13ft wide...

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post #29 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 06:55 PM
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I'm going to do a ported experiment but plan on eventual sealed. Want to see if ported adds much more over the two sealed 21s I have now in experience. I like port air moving around in my live playing music bass, but have gone sealed so far in my HT.
The air timed with bit bass hits is cool but it will be interesting if it adds over bass shakers and pure woofer shake (now @ 2 ftw-21s) from 9 feet away. Ive got two more coming and in the prime position can have either 2 more nearfield or one big 30 cf ported.
Shall see.
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post #30 of 387 Old 12-15-2015, 08:13 PM
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@BassThatHz the driver in this case is 21" ftw (mach 5/ist audio) and the cabs are 24". the jbl's are 30". tight fit, hence the tall cabs.


@jlpowell84 adding a second (22.5" x 30") internal baffle and so as to be able to flush mount the driver will have a minimal impact on cab volume and a negligible effect on performance.
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