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post #1 of 21 Old 03-09-2016, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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First timer needs some help

Ivery been lurking here for a while, reading, researching, and drooling. I finally decided to build my own sub as my MTX PS10, hey I got it for $10, just isn't making me grin enough.

I like sonosubs, so I'm inclined to go that route. After alot of searching, I came across the infinity Kappa 120.9w and it spoke to me.

I downloaded winisd and started "playing around" with it, but I haven't grasped it yet. I would prefer to have the sonosub no more than 4' tall, upward facing driver, downward facing port. Was thinking of tuning to 16hz.

I was considering a Bash 500 watt plate amp, or should I step up to something else?

My living room is approx 2240 cubic feet, and opens to a small hallway on one end, and an 1100 cubic foot dining room. The sub would be sitting in a corner, hopefully that will help.

If someone with much more knowledge than myself could help me with the design aspect, I would be eternally grateful. Or, if the bass brains have other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Sorry for the long first post,but I was trying to give as much information as possible.
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post #2 of 21 Old 03-10-2016, 07:33 AM
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Probably the most important info we need, what's the budget? Next, how big can the subwoofer be? It's typically easier to go lower the bigger the box is.

16Hz is pretty low, but possible (if the budget allows). I don't have the time or ability right now to check out that Infinity Kappa or get it loaded in winisd. Just don't have your heart set on any particular piece. A different sub may give you what you want at a better price.

The 500W BASH amp is a good choice. There are variations, and some of them might have high-pass filters in place that will either help--or hurt--the low extension you want.

I can try and get more info later.
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post #3 of 21 Old 03-10-2016, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjamesd View Post
Ivery been lurking here for a while, reading, researching, and drooling. I finally decided to build my own sub as my MTX PS10, hey I got it for $10, just isn't making me grin enough.

I like sonosubs, so I'm inclined to go that route. After alot of searching, I came across the infinity Kappa 120.9w and it spoke to me.

I downloaded winisd and started "playing around" with it, but I haven't grasped it yet. I would prefer to have the sonosub no more than 4' tall, upward facing driver, downward facing port. Was thinking of tuning to 16hz.

I was considering a Bash 500 watt plate amp, or should I step up to something else?

My living room is approx 2240 cubic feet, and opens to a small hallway on one end, and an 1100 cubic foot dining room. The sub would be sitting in a corner, hopefully that will help.

If someone with much more knowledge than myself could help me with the design aspect, I would be eternally grateful. Or, if the bass brains have other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Sorry for the long first post,but I was trying to give as much information as possible.
I've never designed a sonosub, but with winisd, you should be able to get an idea of the box volume and port size. I went ahead and modeled the flattest response I could find for you. You may want to get some second opinions on this. With the flattest response it would tune to about 26hz in a 2.5 cubic foot box. Your port would be a 5" flared port with a length of 27." The specs on that sub were 350w RMS and with this you would get a port resonance of 22 m/sec. Most try to stay below 17, but feel under 25 is good. You would want to research what you feel is tolerable for you.

A few notes, the driver excursion is around 20hz in this box, so you would need a hpf at 20 hz. Here's the winisd snap shots. Once again, I would get a second opinion on these. I am far from a winisd expert.



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post #4 of 21 Old 03-10-2016, 05:53 PM
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Here is the second one I modeled. It will tune to 20hz, but have an F3 of 18hz. It is far from linear. Once again these are with the max 350 RMS which this sub can handle. Make sure to get an amp that matches appropriately. These need a 4 cubic foot box with a 5" flared port that is 29.27" long. Driver cone excursion is at 18hz, so you would once again need a hpf. With this box, you may experience some chuffing at the port. It's high air velocity is 27 meters per second. Once again, I'd get a second opinion.



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post #5 of 21 Old 03-11-2016, 03:51 AM
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For similar cost you could look at two Infinity 1260w or 1262w, build two tubes, and power with iNuke 1000DSP (or similar). A little more complicated but two subs will generally give a smoother in room response. I'll leave it to someone else to model and and explain pros/cons vs plate amp.
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post #6 of 21 Old 03-11-2016, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thank you AL Toid. I'm still playing with winisd, and trying to absorb all the info I've been reading everywhere.

So, I'm at work, making the printers print, making signs, when my coworkers ask me what the hell I ordered? I was expecting my brake rotors and pads, but also got a box from Amazon. My gf apparently decided to buy me a sub. So, now I have the infinity Kappa...and it's purdy.

So, now I need to decide if j want to continue down the ported path, or switch to something different. I like the idea of the sonosub, as it would fit behind a chair in the corner, or build something different.

I'm open to suggestions, but I'm leaning towards moving forward with the Kappa driver.
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post #7 of 21 Old 03-11-2016, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjamesd View Post
Wow, thank you AL Toid. I'm still playing with winisd, and trying to absorb all the info I've been reading everywhere.

So, I'm at work, making the printers print, making signs, when my coworkers ask me what the hell I ordered? I was expecting my brake rotors and pads, but also got a box from Amazon. My gf apparently decided to buy me a sub. So, now I have the infinity Kappa...and it's purdy.

So, now I need to decide if j want to continue down the ported path, or switch to something different. I like the idea of the sonosub, as it would fit behind a chair in the corner, or build something different.

I'm open to suggestions, but I'm leaning towards moving forward with the Kappa driver.
I completely understand the budget. I am very budget consciousness, so if you can use what you already have...you should. Now I am not as familiar with sonosubs as some, but my understanding is that it is just a sealed or ported sub, where the volume is in a cylinder vs a cube. Having said that, you should be able to just figure out the internal volume of 2.5 or 4 cubic feet in the cylinder and add a 5 inch port. Once again, I am not really familiar with sonosubs, so I would double check with someone. In theory, I don't see why it would matter. It's just the shape your changing

So in your case, you could have the sub facing up, with the sub being ported out the bottom (it would have to be propped up with some legs. The design, would be up to you.
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post #8 of 21 Old 03-11-2016, 08:41 PM
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Go here to calculate your total volume of a sonotube. I think you said you would like it to be 48 inches tall. You may want to make the enclosure shorter than that to have legs on it and to have a top. Remember to also to subtract the volume for the port and the subwoofer. If you need help figuring out out those volumes, I can help with that. You still may need to check with someone who has built sonotube to help with port placement. and design.
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post #9 of 21 Old 03-11-2016, 09:09 PM
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You should check out this build and ask him some questions. He built a pair of ported sonosubs.

Sonosub build
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post #10 of 21 Old 03-12-2016, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I downloaded the sonosub program, and finally got it to cooperate with me!

Does the full length of the port need to be inside the tube, or can I have half the port inside the tube, and half outside?..... if I can get away with the latter, I just need to compute the volume of the port that will be outside the tube, and subtract that from the gross volume of the enclosure.....right?
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-12-2016, 11:37 AM
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You can run it outside if you want to, although I am not quite sure why you would. Unless it is for some sort of decorative purposes.

Whatever volume to port takes up inside of the enclosure is what you need to subtract from the total enclosure volume to get total volume. I'm not sure the exact volume of a tubular port. But after subtracting the total volume of the port that is inside the enclosure, you will get your total volume.

For example, if the port takes up .5 cubic feet, then you would need a total enclosure volume of 3 cubic feet. So you would take the volume of the port add it to whatever cubic feet you want in the internal. This will give you the total you need to build. Hope this helps.

P.S. in the 2.5 cubic foot enclosure we modeled with a 5 inch port and 27" length, if completely internal(it would only use about .3 cubic feet. That means your total internal volume would need to be about 2.8 cubic feet.

Last edited by Al Toid; 03-12-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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post #12 of 21 Old 03-12-2016, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Good stuff. Thank you so much! Many of the models I've put into winisd and sonosub require a port that is longer then the overall height of the enclosure. I don't know if it's just the length of the port that tunes the sub to its frequency, or the overall size of the enclosure. If I can have half the port inside, and half outside, then I have more wiggle room with the enclosure size
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post #13 of 21 Old 03-12-2016, 05:26 PM
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The bigger the diameter of the port, the longer it'll be. To shorten the port, you decrease the diameter of the port. In doing so, you increase the chance of port noise. So in essence, the bigger the diameter, the less chance you have for port noise.

I've never used so no sub program, but you usually can decrease the port diameter in order to achieve a port that'll work. You'll need need to input the power of your amp. In this case, the maximum RMS of your sub is 350 watts. You'd input this, in order to get the maximum port velocity. This will tell you if there could be chuffing at the port. You also would check out the subs excursion level. This is the level in which the sub bottoms out. At this point you'd want a hpf.

Does this help?
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post #14 of 21 Old 03-12-2016, 05:30 PM
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P.s. I left out, that the size and length of the port revolve around the tuning frequency. You can change the tuning frequency, which also changes the port size and length. Keep in mind, you may want to tune a sub to 15hz, but that doesn't mean you can. Your sub may hit excursion way before or you may need a port/box that is unrealistic.
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post #15 of 21 Old 03-12-2016, 05:53 PM
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Okay, I downloaded sonosub and was a little confused by it. I kept checking out why there were no graphs. According to WinISD, you find out driver excursion, port velocity and box volume all using winisd. SonoSub is used to figure out the height of the tub and port. You an use sonosub to put in the inside diameter of the port and the thickness of the material. This then gives you the total internal volume.

I think you may be wanting to get a lower port tune than is reasonably expected from your particular sub.
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post #16 of 21 Old 03-16-2016, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Decided I'm going to go with a 16" sonotube. Figured that way, I'll end up with a 3' tall enclosure including end caps and such.

Now, looking at amps.
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post #17 of 21 Old 04-17-2016, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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First coat of spar urethane on the tube, clamping the bottom and top caps, and attaching the lower end of the port
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post #18 of 21 Old 04-17-2016, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The beginning of the powerport, and a few gratuitous pics of the driver
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post #19 of 21 Old 04-17-2016, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Worked on the top section of the power port today. Got the flare built up with bondo, still have a bit of sanding and shaping to do. Had to put the driver into the enclosure today, just to see how it sounds.

Using the amp from my MTX PS10, 150 watts max, it sounds great! The physical impact from the sub during movies is 1000 times better than the old 10" mtx. The sound quality is hard to explain.....it's more "musical "and seems much more effortless.

The sonotube is 36"tall overall the port is 6" x 24" long.
I still need to make the lower flare of the powerport
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-08-2016, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Been a while, but got the inner portion of the power port done. Wrapping the tube in felt. Was going to use 1 layer, but discovered I bought enough to do 2 layers! Next is the microsuede.
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post #21 of 21 Old 05-08-2016, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Butcher block end caps. The driver will be facing up. And the lower section of the power port. I'm not worried about the bondo visible in the photo, as the gap between the bottom of the tube and the baseplate will only be 2 inches.
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