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Old 03-15-2016, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Fusions or Volts ?

So I'm trying to learn as I go with my home theater and have decided it's time to upgrade my speakers . Have had Polks for ages , nothing fancy at all but have enjoyed them . I would like better quality , primarily for movies , but regular tv and music will be a factor too . I recently got to listen to the Wave Crest HVL-1 (thank you Curtis) and liked them a lot , probably the best sounding speakers I've listened to in my price range , but I'm really curious about building a set . Which brings me to my questions.
My room is roughly 11' wide and 14' long . My screen wall (11') has a door opening in against it , and a 45 degree wall at the other side. Seating position is roughly 11.5' from screen . Due to the door opening against that wall , any Main speakers I use have to be less than 18" tall and mounted from the ceiling . Due to the narrow room my left speaker is about 10" from the side wall , the right is farther from the side wall because of the 45 , both are toed in and angled down toward the seating position . Anyone have any input as to whether the Fusion 6 or either the volt 6 or 8 would be a solid choice for LCR for me ? I'm in an apartment so reference will hardly ever be a concern , but I would like the best speaker for my space that I can get . Dialog clarity is probably the most important aspect , and I am working on room treatments to help this . Is one of the two designs advantageous being placed so close to the ceiling and side wall? Am I better off with the dome tweeter of the HVL-1 than concentric or waveguide?
Thanks for any input in advance , I'm looking forward to learning more about all this , and hopefully spending some money.

Edit: I would like to keep the cost below $450 total for the L C R , and if I can get good to great results cheaper than that then all the better

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Last edited by acras13; 03-20-2016 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:26 AM
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before i built the cinema 8's i had 3 volt 6 in my front stage and they produced a terrific sound for my dedicated home theater. They sounded better than my polk lsi9's. But for most of us DIY's we always want bigger.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:52 AM
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With the ceiling mounting I would lean towards the volts due to their wider directivity.

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Old 03-16-2016, 10:10 AM
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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With the ceiling mounting I would lean towards the volts due to their wider directivity.
Would that wider directivity be a disadvantage with the speakers being so close to a side wall AND the ceiling? Would the waveguide do a better job of limiting reflections off the ceiling at least? I can aim anything I get toward my MLP with no problem so my thinking is that reducing reflections might be more important than directivity ,but I am probably not understanding everything I am reading correctly. If I am wrong then I could do the volt 8's with the increased sensitivity , with the fusions I can only do the 6 , unless I run screws through the top of the fusion 8 right into my ceiling and not be able to point them down to my couch. Thank you

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One thing to keep in mind is that you will need subs with them as they are not full range.
Hahaha , SUBS??? let me put it this way . Right now I have 1 Polk PSW 10 that I have cranked to almost 1/3 of its potential to keep my neighbors dog from getting scared and hiding in the bathroom when I watch anything with decent bass . I use it nearfield to get as much as I can but the way our place is built (poorly) my neighbor has felt my ps4 controllers rumble in her living room when it is on my floor . I can do any form of remodel or construction I want to the place since I have the worlds greatest landlord , but I would literally have to demo our building and rebuild to have any hope of decent bass in my system . I will be getting a better sub to improve sound quality , but I'm not going to be getting tummy rumbling bass in my system . buttkickers are on my radar to get a little closer .

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Old 03-16-2016, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thesamarai View Post
before i built the cinema 8's i had 3 volt 6 in my front stage and they produced a terrific sound for my dedicated home theater. They sounded better than my polk lsi9's. But for most of us DIY's we always want bigger.
Thanks for the input on the volts , sounds like they will definitely would be an improvement over what I have . How big is your space? How close to boundaries were they placed , and is your theater treated ? I'm assuming that reflections wont be any worse than the dome tweeter and 5 1/4" mid setup I have now , but I've never heard coaxials in the home so shockingly I don't know.

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Old 03-17-2016, 07:15 AM
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dedicated theater is 14x21. there is no treatment. first theater ever so dont have any to compare it to but it sure sounds great. Only speakers i had before were the polks. Sometimes i come home from work and just crank up some top 40 music and drown myself out for 30 minutes. great for music and movies.
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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dedicated theater is 14x21. there is no treatment. first theater ever so dont have any to compare it to but it sure sounds great. Only speakers i had before were the polks. Sometimes i come home from work and just crank up some top 40 music and drown myself out for 30 minutes. great for music and movies.
Awesome , thank you! That tells me at least I won't be lacking for power in my smaller space , and my mostly untreated room won't make things wore going to the volts . Even though I won't be able to crank things very often , I do get to once in a while , and my neighbor enjoys me occasionally cranking up Europe's " The Final Countdown" . I do it for ironic effect , she claims it was the soundtrack of her youth ( shes German , so that explains it for me) . Thanks again for taking the time to elaborate for me .

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Old 03-17-2016, 03:29 PM
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I have a pair each of Volt 6's, 8's and 10's. I use the 10's as wides, 8's as heights, and the 6's as surrounds in a 11.4 setup. They all sound excellent, but if I had to choose for LCR, I'd go with the 10's or 8's.


All three have the same compression driver, so the highs are essentially the same for all three. But the 10's and 8's are better in the mid-range than the 6 - obviously due to the size. Like others indicated, you'll need a sub to cross over for the lows.


You can't go wrong with any of them, they're fantastic speakers!
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Old 03-18-2016, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a pair each of Volt 6's, 8's and 10's. I use the 10's as wides, 8's as heights, and the 6's as surrounds in a 11.4 setup. They all sound excellent, but if I had to choose for LCR, I'd go with the 10's or 8's.


All three have the same compression driver, so the highs are essentially the same for all three. But the 10's and 8's are better in the mid-range than the 6 - obviously due to the size. Like others indicated, you'll need a sub to cross over for the lows.


You can't go wrong with any of them, they're fantastic speakers!
Thank you for the insight , I'm getting the distinct impression that overall the volt line is preferred over the fusion 6 in this situation , or at least that they are used as surrounds and most people doing DIY are in fact going bigger than I have space for , unless I turn my room around , which would mean buying a new couch , actually having to buy a screen instead of projecting on a wall , and blocking the ocean breeze coming through my west window . The couch and screen don't bother me , but I'm not going to lose that breeze . I guess I could just remove my front door so it doesn't swing into the way and go with some 1099's . Thanks again everyone.

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Old 03-19-2016, 05:34 AM
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Have you looked at the 88 special? It's 18" tall so it should fit your space.

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Old 03-19-2016, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you looked at the 88 special? It's 18" tall so it should fit your space.
I have , and aside from them being outside of my planned budget and thinking it's just overkill to run 3 of those for the modest listening levels that I will be using 90%+ of the time , I would not be able to aim them at my seating position , and mounting would be tricky as I'm ceiling mounting . I have 18 1/4" between the top of the door and the ceiling , so just not enough room , realistically I think a 16" tall cabinet would be pushing things with a mount and angling the drivers down toward the MLP .
Thank you for the suggestion , and trying to get me into the " bigger is better" club would love to join , but as the great Rev. Groucho " I don't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member"

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Old 03-20-2016, 05:16 AM
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Get rid of that neighbor and the door!
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:01 AM
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Another option,

I have the Fusion 10 and measured the ports for the front. If you cut off the ports on the front bezel, it will be 17.5" H X 12.5" W so fit your space. You can use two 10" passive radiators from Parts Express to tune the box to 60Hz as stock and make the box slightly deeper at around 13" or so to get the correct airspace. Another option is to rear or side port the boxes while keeping the 17.5" height.

Purchasing 4 PRs will cost you around 100 bucks that will get added to the cost of the Fusion 10s, still less expensive and smaller than the 88 Special. The height then is the same as the Fusion 8 but 2 or 3 inches wider.

Just throwing those options out there--good luck with whatever you choose.
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Get rid of that neighbor and the door!
So you are saying I should get rid of the 6' blonde German ex model that lives next to me , and is extremely chill about everything except if I get crazy with the audio after she goes to sleep? Please don't be offended if I don't follow your advise
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:56 PM
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So you are saying I should get rid of the 6' blonde German ex model that lives next to me , and is extremely chill about everything except if I get crazy with the audio after she goes to sleep? Please don't be offended if I don't follow your advise
Forget the pictures of your room--post pix of your neighbor!
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Another option,

I have the Fusion 10 and measured the ports for the front. If you cut off the ports on the front bezel, it will be 17.5" H X 12.5" W so fit your space. You can use two 10" passive radiators from Parts Express to tune the box to 60Hz as stock and make the box slightly deeper at around 13" or so to get the correct airspace. Another option is to rear or side port the boxes while keeping the 17.5" height.

Purchasing 4 PRs will cost you around 100 bucks that will get added to the cost of the Fusion 10s, still less expensive and smaller than the 88 Special. The height then is the same as the Fusion 8 but 2 or 3 inches wider.

Just throwing those options out there--good luck with whatever you choose.
I really didn't need more options to help me delay choosing , but an interesting option indeed . I think for my first DIY project the fusion 10 and the 88 are out of the budget . If as I suspect , and several people have expressed I get bit by the bug then your suggestion with the passive radiators and fusion 10 is intriguing for sure . I will amend my O.P. to reflect my entry range price , subject to change when I slide down the rabbit hole .

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Old 03-20-2016, 07:28 PM
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I really didn't need more options to help me delay choosing , but an interesting option indeed . I think for my first DIY project the fusion 10 and the 88 are out of the budget . If as I suspect , and several people have expressed I get bit by the bug then your suggestion with the passive radiators and fusion 10 is intriguing for sure . I will amend my O.P. to reflect my entry range price , subject to change when I slide down the rabbit hole .
The Fusion 8 would work for you,

It is under 18" with no mods to ports required and will get The Final Countdown to X German model dance levels

An added bonus is the flatpack kits are 1/2" Baltic Birch so should be a light as a Volt 8 with an MDF cabinet. If you plan on mounting hardware to the speakers to affix them to the wall, birch ply would be more durable than MDF.

The Fusion 8 including the flatpacks run $200 each shipped so quite reasonable. The Fusion 10s with two 10" passive radiators plus flatpacks hit $300 each which really starts to add up when you need 3 of them.
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:38 PM
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So you are saying I should get rid of the 6' blonde German ex model that lives next to me , and is extremely chill about everything except if I get crazy with the audio after she goes to sleep? Please don't be offended if I don't follow your advise
Pics or she doesn't live there! jejeje
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok , first off , everyone will have to use their imaginations about the neighbor , and keep in mind , most of you have space , conditions or money for more elaborate home theater systems than I can , so to balance it out I have her living close , and live at the beach where I get to enjoy all varieties of , um , sights.

So 18Hurts , you seem very pro waveguide , is that because of tangible benefits you think the waveguide design has , or more to give options beyond the volts that most responding to my post have recommended? If there are benefits could you elaborate or point me in a direction for the info , and if I decide to go with the smaller option ( fusion 6 or volt 6) would that still apply? I have been trying to learn as much as I can and think I have some of the basics , but I'm still not sure if one designs dispersion characteristics are better for my situation . I have noticed that the sensitivity of the fusion 6 is 4-5 dB lower than the volts and fusion 8 , I don't think that will make much of a difference in my application , but if it is more important than I'm thinking then that may eliminate them from my list . The Wave Crest speakers I listened to have a sensitivity of 89dB like the fusion 6 and I liked their sound , but I don't know if that is a proper comparison .
I really do appreciate everyones input and patience with all my questions , you guys are great!

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Old 03-20-2016, 09:33 PM
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My reason to favor the Fusions over the Volts is your location,

Stuffing them up by the ceiling would really give a serious ceiling bounce which won't help you for sound quality. The horn on the Fusions will help with that. It won't be perfect but will keep some of the sound off your ceiling.

Since you live on a beach, forget about the surround sound as surround bikinis are much higher on the entertainment scale. The Fusion 8s would be decent party speakers also, they have enough efficiency and focus to punch out decent sound out in the wind and weather. Better crank up that sub (or subs) to get that X German model chest thump she likes... just throwing that one out there.

My Fusion 10s just arrived so I have built the crossover boards. This upcoming week I'll attempt to get birch ply so I can start building the boxes--hope to stain and poly coat the birch to make them pretty for WAF. The MDF front panel will be black with a grill so this will take awhile. The Fusion 10's were the largest my wife would put up with since I tend to have largish subs so something had to give.

I like the F10s (as I call them) because of their efficiency and power handling, I can use them outside with my PA amp to get MY neighbor (redhead) dancing on my subs. They are also efficient enough to give me reference volume from an AVR without strain at a distance of 13 feet when needed. The other thing I like about largish waveguides (besides lack of ceiling/floor bounce) is I can "crossfire" them to give even response across the entire couch so my wife will enjoy the surround effect no matter where she sits.

For information about the toe in on the big waveguides, you can get the info on the first post of this thread

Hey guys...we need a little rallying here...

Hope no matter what you choose, your neighbor appreciates it!
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:41 PM
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If you are going to be right up on the wall. The volts may be better as they have very little boundry gain compensation built into their crossovers as they are designed to take advantage on being mounted on a wall. The other designs may have some more bsc built in and may exhibit bloated base below the 250hz range when they are too close to a wall. Matt @mtg90 designed the Fusion6 and the Volt line and would know the absolute answer here.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Corradizo , my current setup is ceiling mounted about 8" away from the screen wall , with home made acoustic panels behind the speakers , and I'm willing to pull them further away from that wall if it will help/improve things as making brackets or mounts isn't a problem for me . The problem I have is the ceiling and left side wall . The left speaker is about 10" from the left wall . The right side wall is farther from the right speaker because I'm keeping symmetry over my screen , theres a 45 degree wall on that side of my screen , so the right speaker is maybe 20-24" from that boundary .

18Hurtz , I thought that the waveguide would help being so close to the ceiling , and I suspected that it wouldn't be any worse in regards to the side wall reflections , thank you for confirming . I will be treating more of my room when I settle on speakers , and gain the knowledge to do it intelligently . It will require moving recessed lighting that I foolishly installed before finalizing the room . Good thing I'm an electrician so it's not really a big deal.
I am trying to stay open to the options , but I do have a tiny bit of reservation that the "horns" will be a little harsh on the highs like some of the Klipsch I've heard in the past . I know this is pretty much unfounded fear from reading many peoples opinions of them , but I tend to analyse and research the living crap out everything , thinking about every possible problem and solution .
I forget about the soundsystem and hang out at the beach as much as I can , but there are not many distractions down there after the sun goes down , and the 120" screen showing Step Into Liquid impresses the surfer girls when they can't be out in the water . I don't have to worry about anyones acceptance factor for aesthetics , I'm more concerned with the speakers physically fitting , and being flat black to cut down on screen reflections . I wouldn't mind having a redhead dancing on my sub in the yard , and I may be making a sub for our outdoor summer movie watching to facilitate that .

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Old 03-21-2016, 08:08 AM
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18Hurtz , I thought that the waveguide would help being so close to the ceiling , and I suspected that it wouldn't be any worse in regards to the side wall reflections , thank you for confirming . I will be treating more of my room when I settle on speakers , and gain the knowledge to do it intelligently .
I am trying to stay open to the options , but I do have a tiny bit of reservation that the "horns" will be a little harsh on the highs like some of the Klipsch I've heard in the past . I know this is pretty much unfounded fear from reading many peoples opinions of them , but I tend to analyse and research the living crap out everything , thinking about every possible problem and solution .
I'm more concerned with the speakers physically fitting , and being flat black to cut down on screen reflections . I wouldn't mind having a redhead dancing on my sub in the yard , and I may be making a sub for our outdoor summer movie watching to facilitate that .
If you look around at bars, clubs, churches etc., the waveguide speakers they use tend to be mounted up high for dispersion and aimed at the people while attempting to keep the sound off the ceiling/walls--a chronic issue with PA type installs. Not only are horns/waveguides way more efficient that domes/cones, you get the bonus of much narrower directivity in the vertical which can be a good thing for home use. Co-axials and concentrics are great for a wide and tall sound dispersion, a great thing for surrounds and near field use but can backfire if mounted at a wall/ceiling junction.

Since you are sitting so far back, I'd say a waveguide would work well considering your mounting is more PA style.

Fully understand your nervousness about horn speakers, I ran PA systems in the 90's and for the most part, many band systems I heard were harsh. Owned a set of Klipsch Tangent 50s 25 years ago and the horn was harsh so I get it.

The Fusion 8 was designed by Jeff Bagby using the EOS 8 horn, from what I've read Jeff prefers a more "laid back" sound so the horn is setup in the crossover to be more "relaxed" so any harshness should not be a problem. At 94dB 1w/1m it should work well for tunes on the beach as you need some serious subwoofage to keep up with them. The Fusion 10 was designed by Ray Bouma and he tends to want flat response but if the horns have too much output for personal taste, you can swap the l-pad resistors to cut the amount of output if desired.

For my dancing redhead subs, they are in my garage and I made them 20" tall so people could sit on them. They are 3.5 feet wide and the dual 15" subs are push-pull slot load so they stay in balance and don't vibrate at all. They shake the garage like hell but won't vibrate at all when used as a seat. Viola! I get 7 feet of sitting space for the subs so my neighbor will dance on them (the tops are 1.5" thick plywood heavily braced so not a problem)

Can a Fusion 10 be a great HT speaker, music speaker (with subs) and a small PA speaker for summer BBQs? I'm building then now so I'll find out! Now to go plywood shopping...
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by acras13 View Post
Hahaha , SUBS??? let me put it this way . Right now I have 1 Polk PSW 10 that I have cranked to almost 1/3 of its potential to keep my neighbors dog from getting scared and hiding in the bathroom when I watch anything with decent bass . I use it nearfield to get as much as I can but the way our place is built (poorly) my neighbor has felt my ps4 controllers rumble in her living room when it is on my floor . I can do any form of remodel or construction I want to the place since I have the worlds greatest landlord , but I would literally have to demo our building and rebuild to have any hope of decent bass in my system . I will be getting a better sub to improve sound quality , but I'm not going to be getting tummy rumbling bass in my system . buttkickers are on my radar to get a little closer .
I have a solution for your bass dilemma: bass shakers (tactile transducers)! Mount a few of them to your couch/seats, and use rubber isolation pads to separate them from the floor to keep them from shaking the room. It'll add back the tactile feedback that you're missing from not having a proper sub. I promise that with a couple of those and your Polk PSW10, you'll swear you have a pair of 18's powered by 1000W each in the room! As a bass-shaker convertee, I will never go back to a theater setup without them. I'd rather give up one of my 18's than give up the bass shakers!
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
If you look around at bars, clubs, churches etc., the waveguide speakers they use tend to be mounted up high for dispersion and aimed at the people while attempting to keep the sound off the ceiling/walls--a chronic issue with PA type installs. Not only are horns/waveguides way more efficient that domes/cones, you get the bonus of much narrower directivity in the vertical which can be a good thing for home use. Co-axials and concentrics are great for a wide and tall sound dispersion, a great thing for surrounds and near field use but can backfire if mounted at a wall/ceiling junction.

Since you are sitting so far back, I'd say a waveguide would work well considering your mounting is more PA style.

Fully understand your nervousness about horn speakers, I ran PA systems in the 90's and for the most part, many band systems I heard were harsh. Owned a set of Klipsch Tangent 50s 25 years ago and the horn was harsh so I get it.

The Fusion 8 was designed by Jeff Bagby using the EOS 8 horn, from what I've read Jeff prefers a more "laid back" sound so the horn is setup in the crossover to be more "relaxed" so any harshness should not be a problem. At 94dB 1w/1m it should work well for tunes on the beach as you need some serious subwoofage to keep up with them. The Fusion 10 was designed by Ray Bouma and he tends to want flat response but if the horns have too much output for personal taste, you can swap the l-pad resistors to cut the amount of output if desired.

For my dancing redhead subs, they are in my garage and I made them 20" tall so people could sit on them. They are 3.5 feet wide and the dual 15" subs are push-pull slot load so they stay in balance and don't vibrate at all. They shake the garage like hell but won't vibrate at all when used as a seat. Viola! I get 7 feet of sitting space for the subs so my neighbor will dance on them (the tops are 1.5" thick plywood heavily braced so not a problem)

Can a Fusion 10 be a great HT speaker, music speaker (with subs) and a small PA speaker for summer BBQs? I'm building then now so I'll find out! Now to go plywood shopping...
Thank you!

I have 3 reaction cx-10s and 3 pure 10 that I need to choose between in a similar setup. I was leaning cx-10 for the dispersion downwards but now am considering the impact of the ceiling as you mentioned. The cx-10 are better in some ways but your input (and the resale value difference) is really giving me food for thought.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:30 PM
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I have Fusion 10's as mains.
Pretty impressive IMO.
For music they sound nice(untreated room), for movies they sound awesome, as they are very loud and dynamic sounding.
If I had to do it again, I would....I also have 18" midbass drivers, so that helps the Pure Mains do their thing.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
I have Fusion 10's as mains.
Pretty impressive IMO.
For music they sound nice(untreated room), for movies they sound awesome, as they are very loud and dynamic sounding.
If I had to do it again, I would....I also have 18" midbass drivers, so that helps the Pure Mains do their thing.
I like them but would take the reactions if all things were ever $$ wise. Maybe it's in my head but I feel like I hear the horn v the compression guide and they have different sound signatures. The 2 are very close so I'm sure once the reactions are gone I won't notice it.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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18Hurtz , thanks for taking all the time to help further my education , the PDF's in the link you posted were great , I hadn't even thought about toeing in the speakers as far as they suggested , but the explanation made great sense . I am going to mull over the options for a couple day , digest all the suggestions and then make my decision . I just got an email from the owner of Wave Crest following up on my visit to listen to their product , and I am still considering them because I know how they sound , and because of the awesome customer service the owner gave , far above and beyond , not to mention it's a local business (3 miles from my house) .DIY really appeals to me because of the bang for the buck , and because I love the idea of building my own . I'm pretty sure I will end up building , and then buying the wave Crest either for my garage , or for a friend that wants me to help build a system for them.

Keep the input coming everyone , especially any info on the smaller offerings . I would love to be able to throw some 1099's or 88's up there , but price and size restrictions being what they are that's not going to happen . I would be interested in hearing about first hand knowledge from someone who has run both the volts and fusions , and I am really curious about the difference between the waveguides that are in the fusion 6 and 8 (EOS) and the one in the larger kits (SEOS) in real world situations . I'm getting ahead of myself already , but I'm already imagining designing a set of speakers custom sized for my location . Hmmm , had anyone made a ceiling mounted 8' wide faux soundbar internally partitioned to separate the channels , using say a similar layout to the 88's , but with 6" drivers instead of the 8's to reduce the height a bit? Radius and angled face to aim the drivers at the seating position, I could build a soffit easy enough I guess.... Maybe I should just stick with a proven design before I jump in the deep end. Thanks again everyone.

“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”---Mark Twain
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:56 PM
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Quad 4?

Possibly verticle hiding in columns or behind acoustically transparent cloth witha faux decoration/print... Just shooting out an idea or 2 ha
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