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Old 06-08-2016, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Alternatives to the Denovo DNA-205?

Hi guys, I am thinking about taking the plunge into high efficiency speakers and that will likely be in the form of the Denovo DNA-205 (or one of it's relatives/"clones") coupled with a SEOS 10 waveguide but as I am going into this "blind"(deaf) I wanted to find out from those of you who have heard it and other compression drivers with differing diaphragm materials what you consider suitable alternatives up to ~$60 in price?

I am inclined towards the Denovo and others of it's ilk as the are described as being detail but not harsh.
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:09 PM
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The Denovo IS a clone of the B&C DE10 I believe. I've heard the B&C, it sounds very nice. The 360 and B&C Original (250) are better, in my opinion, but neither sound harsh in the slightest. I've heard other's and there are very few that I would rate better sounding for any amount of money. I had an opportunity to hear my own speakers built out with JBL and TAD drivers as well as BMS compression drivers, I didn't find that any sounded substantially different, let alone better. In fact, the TAD didn't measure so great above 15khz and while the BMS has better extension out to 20khz it wasn't audible. Buy the Denovo, it's already a cheap clone of a great driver, there isn't anything better for less.
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Old 06-17-2016, 08:01 PM
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There's a new tympany compression driver, peerless dfm2535. Seems wicked based on the measurements on tech talk.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RobertChicken View Post
Hi guys, I am thinking about taking the plunge into high efficiency speakers and that will likely be in the form of the Denovo DNA-205 (or one of it's relatives/"clones") coupled with a SEOS 10 waveguide but as I am going into this "blind"(deaf) I wanted to find out from those of you who have heard it and other compression drivers with differing diaphragm materials what you consider suitable alternatives up to ~$60 in price?

I am inclined towards the Denovo and others of it's ilk as the are described as being detail but not harsh.
I've put my build on hold for the moment but since posting this thread I have come across a very well priced "clone" of the B&C 250 in the form of the PRV Audio D290Py-B, user reviews state it as being quite well matched to the B&C as well as it being detailed but not harsh. Any thought on this?

prvaudio.com/products/d290py-b-2/

I will keep on eye on that Tympany. perhaps it could be used in a surround speaker (likely with a coaxial driver).
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Accidentally quoted myself and I don't see the edit button
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Old 06-18-2016, 07:47 PM
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I have 2-way kits that have the DNA-360 and DNA-205, each using SEOS 12. Cheap Thrills 360 , and Fusion 10 Pure 205.

The 360 is more expensive but to my ears the difference is REALLY small. I've been told the 360 has better power handling, but not in the power range in which I listen. I interchanged each XO with each CD/SEOS 12 and still could not hear any difference.

The 205 is very smooth and in fact I prefer it for most general listening. Even when pushed to LOUD I cannot hear much of a difference, and in a blind test I would not be able to tell them apart.

Here is a comparison of the Fusion 10 Pure to the Bose 301. It give a very good description of the kind of sound the Fusion 10 w/DNA-205 puts out.
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Old 06-19-2016, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info wvu80.
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:24 PM
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The CD in the 1299 was like a 205 with a lower XO ability
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Old 06-19-2016, 04:54 PM
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Actually the CD in the 1299 is more like the DNA-360, but with a mylar diaphragm.

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Old 06-20-2016, 06:30 AM
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Actually the CD in the 1299 is more like the DNA-360, but with a mylar diaphragm.
You Iike it more than the 360?
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:24 AM
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They're very similar and after a good crossover design they'd likely sound very similar. The main reason for the new 325 was to get a compression driver with about the same power handling as the 360 and nearly the same crossover point capability, but a smaller diameter so it could fit through the cutout hole used by the SEOS-8. That way one compression driver model could be used from a SEOS-8 up through a SEOS-15 and timbre match the entire line.

It's been difficult and time consuming getting the DNA-205's, which is why they aren't listed for sale by themselves. Two weeks ago I contacted B&C to see about getting the DE10's instead and tweaking the crossover designs to the B&C. The main difference is the 205 extends lower and can handle a lower crossover point. The only speakers that would be an issue for is the Fusion-10 and Fusion-8 center channel because both of those crossover around 1500hz, which I'm not sure the B&C can handle without more testing. My current idea is to use the DE10 in the 1099 and 893, but use the new DNA-325 in the Fusion-10 and Fusion-8 center.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertChicken View Post
I've put my build on hold for the moment but since posting this thread I have come across a very well priced "clone" of the B&C 250 in the form of the PRV Audio D290Py-B, user reviews state it as being quite well matched to the B&C as well as it being detailed but not harsh. Any thought on this?

prvaudio.com/products/d290py-b-2/

I will keep on eye on that Tympany. perhaps it could be used in a surround speaker (likely with a coaxial driver).
Yep. Used the PRV D290 on some Dayton H6215 guides for a custom build about 18 months ago. They are superb drivers and although my head to head vs the B&C D250 was extremely rudimentary, I thought they were every bit as good as the B&C. Very smooth and very good extension on that guide.


I am thinking about buying more of the PRV's to do an upgrade to my 3 way JBL's that currently use the dreadful 2418H-1 CD. Some would scream sacrilege but the only other option would be a JBL 2426 (or 2416) and it is far more expensive and doesn't have the HF extension of the PRV.


I think PRV was started by a bunch of ex JBL people so I guess I can claim some 'lose' lineage
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Old 06-21-2016, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep. Used the PRV D290 on some Dayton H6215 guides for a custom build about 18 months ago. They are superb drivers and although my head to head vs the B&C D250 was extremely rudimentary, I thought they were every bit as good as the B&C. Very smooth and very good extension on that guide.


I am thinking about buying more of the PRV's to do an upgrade to my 3 way JBL's that currently use the dreadful 2418H-1 CD. Some would scream sacrilege but the only other option would be a JBL 2426 (or 2416) and it is far more expensive and doesn't have the HF extension of the PRV.


I think PRV was started by a bunch of ex JBL people so I guess I can claim some 'lose' lineage
Thanks Kwikas, given its price I am definitely going to go with it.

Erich we had recently been in contact, I'm the guy from South Africa who was on the fence about doing a SEOS or synergy horn build, though I have yet to contact the guys who will build my speakers I think I am going to go with my original plan of a SEOS 2-way build.

I will be holding of purchasing them for the time being until I have sorted out some other things though.
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Old 06-21-2016, 02:31 PM
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I'm not sure if the PRV's are different from a couple years ago, but when I tested 4 of those they all tested quite a bit different. I was looking for a cheap model for the 'Cheap Thrills' line and tried some of those lower priced models and none were consistent enough from unit to unit.

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Old 06-21-2016, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if the PRV's are different from a couple years ago, but when I tested 4 of those they all tested quite a bit different. I was looking for a cheap model for the 'Cheap Thrills' line and tried some of those lower priced models and none were consistent enough from unit to unit.
This model I think is their top of the range model not sure if that counts for anything, also one user review (not much of a sample size) claimed consistency between units of this model were good.

I may have to order 2 of the 3 first to confirm but that's still a ways off.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:03 PM
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Yes, I've tried those, but maybe they changed things.

I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I have pretty much every model/brand of 1" compression drivers you can buy. Also at least 30 - 35 samples or custom samples that aren't on the market along with gobs of phase plugs, diaphragms, etc, etc for testing and experimenting. I wish I could say it was something to brag about, but it's more of an audio sickness.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I've tried those, but maybe they changed things.

I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I have pretty much every model/brand of 1" compression drivers you can buy. Also at least 30 - 35 samples or custom samples that aren't on the market along with gobs of phase plugs, diaphragms, etc, etc for testing and experimenting. I wish I could say it was something to brag about, but it's more of an audio sickness.
I think you get a pass as you're not just a hobbyist
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:05 AM
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Has any of the DIYSG guys tried the Selenium D220ti CD in a SEOS? That CD sounds very nice.
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:15 AM
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The selenium 220Ti with right pad on it can also do well at that price point.

It was used in the SHO10, and I've built clones successfully with it. Paired with the eminence delta10a. I've never heard the SEOS10 but would think it's very close. I do however have Tempest12's in the main room and definitely praise the DNA360.

sounds awesome and detailed for the $
replaced 2.1 garage music setup

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Old 06-22-2016, 07:40 AM
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How did you pad down the d220 in your wedges?
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:10 AM
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Hey MK, I literally copied the xover (woofer compensation and l-pad), cabinet dimension volume, slot port tune from the SHO10. They sound identical to the SHO's I use in my theater room for surrounds upstairs.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:30 AM
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OK, How do they sound compared to the tempest?

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Old 06-22-2016, 12:36 PM
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Judging a CD alone is more about measured results than how it sounds - judging a speaker design is when listening and opinion becomes more important.

I wouldn't listen to a CD alone and make an opinion how it sounds, nor believe that's even accurate or worthwhile. I'd do that about a complete design possibly. Choosing a part is mostly about the product quality and capability and how well it matches with the design goals and priorities of the project. That's when you'd look at price, measured results, where it can XO, etc.... Good parts are never enough and good parts don't make good speakers- there's plenty of speakers with average parts that have an excellent result and there's plenty of speakers with premium parts that don't perform as well.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:05 PM
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I agree, I don't want to know how the CD sounds, I have heard it myself plenty of times in my room and others, I just wanted his opinion of his DIY speaker vs the Tempest. Bigger soundstage, lack of clarity, harsh or not, etc.. The Tempest should have a much better crossover, horn, and slightly better woofer. The CD's are different as well. So if one's opinion is that he likes his SHO-10 better or very similar maybe we can come up with another SEOS design if one wants to try something different. Why does one like said speaker, are the measurements the same in room, maybe they are different? I have never been a fan of sticking a speaker in a room and saying it sounds better, why? How does it measure at that LP you listen at, do they sound different when equalized the same? Maybe someone does not like EQ and wants the best sound for their room raw(I am falling into that realm). I also like to keep this fun and never think one rules them all. It is very fun for me to find the best bang for buck and then try to better that. I would like to take the Behringer parts and make a SEOS out of them and see if they improve or not. Of course me not being handy with crossovers does not help the situation. I would absolutely try the 308 and 305 in my room but after the baffle wall was built all my outlets were lost for the front stage. The problem also comes hum from so many different outlets being used.

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Old 06-22-2016, 01:38 PM
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305 has excellent sound but does not fit your application.

You should bring your Berry you like to a GTG next time we do one and compare them to some alternatives (JTR, 1099, f15 etc). I think you'd really get the most from thag experience. I've seen you ask the same thing a lot but nothing is going to answer it as well as you living it yourself. It would be fun. I think you like trying stuff anyways so I believe you'd really like it. There is probably others in your area with alternative gear you could do a mini gtg at your place or theirs too. Probably easier than building or buying to try (and cheaper!)
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:18 PM
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I wish people lived closer. I don't like making opinions on speakers at GTGs since I need to listen in my own room since that is where they end up. I do like others opinions and having fun at GTGs.

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Old 06-22-2016, 02:21 PM
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I wouldn't listen to a CD alone and make an opinion how it sounds, nor believe that's even accurate or worthwhile.

You can after you've heard many different models or tested hundreds of them.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:40 PM
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Hey MK, I literally copied the xover (woofer compensation and l-pad), cabinet dimension volume, slot port tune from the SHO10. They sound identical to the SHO's I use in my theater room for surrounds upstairs.
How do you like them as surrounds?
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:16 PM
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OK, How do they sound compared to the tempest?
hmmmm
They are like a medium fullness and the Tempest are LARGE full sound with bigger topend and bigger midbass. I'd hope so since they are well BIGGER If that makes any sense. I think a lot has to do with mid diameter and the SEOS horn for the CD. See i'm still using the eminence 90x90 horn for the SHO and clones. The SEOS10 should make the CD sound fuller wider stage IMO giving it advantage. It can be fought over with toe'ing but i'm telling you guys I noticed a difference when went to the SEOS for mains. I always toe my fronts 45deg or each to the furthest listening position. Alot is due to the center doing most work during movies. You need the SEOS to give the center channel CD that large feel easily. I replaced my SHO10's with the Tempest as front stage, and moved the SHO's to surround duty. All are running off epx4k's with 530wRMS/ch. The little garage SHO clone setup however is just the old onkyo receiver 65w x2. The garage setup has to fill more open hard space. No baffling on any walls or ceiling give it advantage to fill easily with hard everything. For the first time anywhere in the garage sound is effortless and a single picowrecker(big props to lilmike!!!) should get as much praise for it's duty of bass. Best system I've ever had in here period. Very satisfied with it. Accurate, detailed, and can slap you in the face at gain limit.

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How do you like them as surrounds?
All Chase SHO10's had the selenium 220ti. Read above SHO's were my mains before surrounds and did very very well especially when put some amp behind them. There were a few members like(Gorilla) that put 2 channels of ep4k on his SHO's AFTER building SEOS15's. He felt the SHO10's amp'd did amazingly good for their size. He made a comment somewhere along the lines the refrigerator size cabs needed more justifying for their space. The SHO10 gave me my first insight that it was possible to reach nirvana. The Tempest are that nirvana for me. I don't post much anymore due to that fact. My AVS usage has went to about zero since. I'm sure most agree with the SEOS project(diysoundgroup) that all the designs Erich has put together kill majority of the market offerings. They kick ass. Yup I'm blunt but they are that good.

See sidetracked myself on your real question. They kill as surrounds. I mean they were mains before so surround duty is like taking a break. Anyone can copy my wedges, I even tried to take close pics of the crossovers you need and resistor values. All was shared by Craig when he released them. He would even list the part numbers so someone could build their own. Avail parts at partsexpress. Original cabinet volume of the SHO10 is 0.7cuft. Can route a 1/2" slot port for tuning where you like. I think I made mine at 60hz but would have to refer to my notes last winter. C-C spacing of CD to mid is 8.75"

Here's what I used from parts express.
Parts Express
-------------
290-412 Eminence Delta-10A 10" midrange driver 8 Ohm
264-270 Selenium D220Ti 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"-18
290-713 Eminence Eminator EM 200S 90x90 bi-Radial 1" Horn
290-634 Eminence PXB2:1K6 2-Way Crossover Board 1,600 Hz
016-1 1 Ohm 10w resistor wire wound +/- 5%
017-4 4 Ohm 20w resistor wire wound +/- 5%
017-80 80 Ohm 20w resistor wire wound +/- 5%
L-pad
2x 4 ohm 20w resistors in parallel to make 40w 2 ohm
3x 1 ohm 10w resistors in series to make 30w 3 ohm
Woofer impedance compensation
4x 80 ohm 20w resistors in parallel to make 80w 20 ohm

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Old 06-28-2016, 09:49 PM
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hmmmm
They are like a medium fullness and the Tempest are LARGE full sound with bigger topend and bigger midbass. I'd hope so since they are well BIGGER If that makes any sense. I think a lot has to do with mid diameter and the SEOS horn for the CD. See i'm still using the eminence 90x90 horn for the SHO and clones. The SEOS10 should make the CD sound fuller wider stage IMO giving it advantage. It can be fought over with toe'ing but i'm telling you guys I noticed a difference when went to the SEOS for mains. I always toe my fronts 45deg or each to the furthest listening position. Alot is due to the center doing most work during movies. You need the SEOS to give the center channel CD that large feel easily. I replaced my SHO10's with the Tempest as front stage, and moved the SHO's to surround duty. All are running off epx4k's with 530wRMS/ch. The little garage SHO clone setup however is just the old onkyo receiver 65w x2. The garage setup has to fill more open hard space. No baffling on any walls or ceiling give it advantage to fill easily with hard everything. For the first time anywhere in the garage sound is effortless and a single picowrecker(big props to lilmike!!!) should get as much praise for it's duty of bass. Best system I've ever had in here period. Very satisfied with it. Accurate, detailed, and can slap you in the face at gain limit.



All Chase SHO10's had the selenium 220ti. Read above SHO's were my mains before surrounds and did very very well especially when put some amp behind them. There were a few members like(Gorilla) that put 2 channels of ep4k on his SHO's AFTER building SEOS15's. He felt the SHO10's amp'd did amazingly good for their size. He made a comment somewhere along the lines the refrigerator size cabs needed more justifying for their space. The SHO10 gave me my first insight that it was possible to reach nirvana. The Tempest are that nirvana for me. I don't post much anymore due to that fact. My AVS usage has went to about zero since. I'm sure most agree with the SEOS project(diysoundgroup) that all the designs Erich has put together kill majority of the market offerings. They kick ass. Yup I'm blunt but they are that good.

See sidetracked myself on your real question. They kill as surrounds. I mean they were mains before so surround duty is like taking a break. Anyone can copy my wedges, I even tried to take close pics of the crossovers you need and resistor values. All was shared by Craig when he released them. He would even list the part numbers so someone could build their own. Avail parts at partsexpress. Original cabinet volume of the SHO10 is 0.7cuft. Can route a 1/2" slot port for tuning where you like. I think I made mine at 60hz but would have to refer to my notes last winter. C-C spacing of CD to mid is 8.75"

Here's what I used from parts express.
Parts Express
-------------
290-412 Eminence Delta-10A 10" midrange driver 8 Ohm
264-270 Selenium D220Ti 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"-18
290-713 Eminence Eminator EM 200S 90x90 bi-Radial 1" Horn
290-634 Eminence PXB2:1K6 2-Way Crossover Board 1,600 Hz
016-1 1 Ohm 10w resistor wire wound +/- 5%
017-4 4 Ohm 20w resistor wire wound +/- 5%
017-80 80 Ohm 20w resistor wire wound +/- 5%
L-pad
2x 4 ohm 20w resistors in parallel to make 40w 2 ohm
3x 1 ohm 10w resistors in series to make 30w 3 ohm
Woofer impedance compensation
4x 80 ohm 20w resistors in parallel to make 80w 20 ohm

Thanks for such a detailed and informed reply autox. I might build some based on your info....
Kwikas is offline  
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