6 Sealed HT18's Build Thread (and a couple pics of the 1899s) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 39 Old 07-04-2016, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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6 Sealed HT18's Build Thread (and a couple pics of the 1899s)

A couple months ago, I decided on adding on to my dual UM-18s with some near field subs. I originally planned to build 2 dual opposed Infinity 1262 enclosures for near field use, but that ship sailed when @Patzig posted for sale a few of his HT18s. I'm from Houston, and have family up in Dallas where he is located, so I figured it would be a perfect weekend trip to visit family, purchase 2 HT18s, and get a nice demo of the 1899s - which turned into an afternoon of above reference level playing with a cheap 50? wpc max receiver. It was awesome.

I was planning another trip to Dallas which ended up being this weekend, the 4th of July holiday weekend. It turns out that Patzig was debating on selling a few more (4 more) HT18s and I happen to chat with him before that ad made the classifieds. So another weekend to Dallas with lots of family for the holiday, and a quick trip to purchase 4 more HT18s.

The plan is to have 2 stacks of 3 18s up front, and a pair of near field 18s. 8 18s total.
This thread is for me to gain some opinions on setup, possible wiring, and which amps.
I currently have my UM-18s running off a 6000DSP, and I also have a 3000DSP boxed and all the SpeakOn's, etc. for the first two HT18s that were purchased a few months ago.

I'm looking on advise for the other 4 HT18s....How should I power them? A single 6000DSP and wire them together so a pair of HT18s runs off each channel of the 6000DSP?
Should I purchase two more 3000DSPs? Should I purchase the 4 channel NU4-6000DSP?

Anyway, here's some pics - 4 HT18s will be placed on top of the currently placed UM-18s, while the other 2 will be placed on each side of the current LP as shown:
I also tried out a pair of my Pioneer FS52s as wides to see how it affected the overall surround. The RBH R5Bis are going to be mounted as either front heights or Atmos speakers. I just can't decide which, because DTS:X is taking too long. I might just go forth with Atmos.

The 1899s are massive speakers and the cliche saying of "pics don't to them justice" is exactly that. These played effortlessly loud maintaining the same total qualities of the speaker at low volumes and above reference volumes which is a feat most speakers can't achieve. I can't really say enough about this speaker and really wish I could compare it with some of my personal speakers in the same room/setting. The compression driver(s) definitely have a different sound signature than classic domes and ribbons and I won't elaborate on that. I know this is a small paragraph about a massive speaker, but I have to comment something about them even though they deserve their own thread.









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_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #2 of 39 Old 07-04-2016, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Assuming this is all completed, here is my ULF scorecard:
Thread link: Your Home Theater ULF Score


@derrickdj1 @dominguez1
@carp @coolrda @MKtheater

@Scott Simonian (04-22-2016, 10:07 PM) "Get to work on those, man!
Young guy.... not doing too bad at your age. I think when I was 20-ish I still was rocking a single vented Adire Tempest.
Time to wrap up the 1262's so you can move on up the ladder here. "

The 1262s are now in storage
I obviously can't forecast how my VS testing will go, but I plan on joining in at some point.
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_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #3 of 39 Old 07-04-2016, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Reserved for completion pics

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
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post #4 of 39 Old 07-04-2016, 09:06 PM
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post #5 of 39 Old 07-04-2016, 11:38 PM
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Oh my goodness.....I think you pretty much eliminated about ten years worth of upgrades. Well done!
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post #6 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 04:27 AM
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Nicely done! That's some serious fire power for that size room!

Look forward to your vs response on that suspended floor...
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post #7 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 03:07 PM
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Time to build a center and AT screen! Love the big speakers.

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Outlaw 7140 and 5000
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subs 2 XXX ported SLLT powered by IPR2-7500.
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post #8 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
a nice demo of the 1899s - which turned into an afternoon of above reference level playing with a cheap 50? wpc max receiver. It was awesome.
Only 50 watts? Come on now, that speaker can take a couple thousand! How was the midbass with just 50 watts?

I'd imagine it sounded quite a bit different than the ribbon tweeters in your current speakers.

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post #9 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Only 50 watts? Come on now, that speaker can take a couple thousand! How was the midbass with just 50 watts?

I'd imagine it sounded quite a bit different than the ribbon tweeters in your current speakers.
Well even with that receiver, bass and midbass reproduction was fantastic. It wasn't chest pounding, due to the amp running out of voltage, but things still rattled and shook lightly in the house. Patzig has previously hooked up his DIY (Hypex?) amp to them, but he's been busy putting together his own dedicated space and other things. He might have that amp hooked to his Fusion speakers which is in the undergoing room, but I would rather him elaborate on your comments
Eric, I would love to see kits such as the 1899s or even 893s, but with another style of tweeter. I love them (your Cinema speakers, compressions) effortlessness output for movie watcing, but I listen to lots of music as well.

MK, thanks to the small room, and shorter distance from the center, it's not very difficult to achieve a comfortable listening volume. But that means something like a 1099 (etc) or JBL 47 is uncomfortable to use because of the floor noise/static hiss from the center channel is rather excessive.

I still have tons of work to do in the room, but it isn't as high on the priority list as getting all these subs up and running. Maybe I'll top off the stack with another pair of UM-18s. That would make for a nice picture

I went ahead and ordered the 6000DSP amp from Parts Express along with the SpeakOns and other supplies needed since they were having a sale. But I would like some amp advise. As far as cost goes, was the 6000DSP probably the better choice? If so, I'll be asking wiring questions when it gets to that point.

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey

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post #10 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Eric, I would love to see kits such as the 1899s or even 893s, but with another style of tweeter. I love them (your Cinema speakers, compressions) effortlessness output for movie watcing, but I listen to lots of music as well.
I've been mulling over http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...ksman-kit.htmlThe Marksman kit. I haven't seen any build threads on it yet. I bet it sounds great.
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post #11 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
I've been mulling over http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker...ksman-kit.htmlThe Marksman kit. I haven't seen any build threads on it yet. I bet it sounds great.
Yea, it's just missing a pair of 12s-18s
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_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #12 of 39 Old 07-06-2016, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
...and a quick trip to purchase 4 more HT18s.
Glad we got to visit again, I need to come hear your room soon. Thanks for taking the HT18's! Guess I'll just have to settle with my remaining 8

Also, we need to make this Texas gtg happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Only 50 watts? Come on now, that speaker can take a couple thousand! How was the midbass with just 50 watts?
lol, I doubt that amp is even doing 50 watts. It's a very old stereo amp. The most the 1899's have seen is ~400 watts, coming from the Hypex. I had ear plugs in and it was still too loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
I went ahead and ordered the 6000DSP amp from Parts Express along with the SpeakOns and other supplies needed since they were having a sale.
Good choice. I prefer to have the headroom in the amp. You can always put a limiter on the inuke if you're worried about bottoming out the HT18's.
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post #13 of 39 Old 07-06-2016, 01:41 PM
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You guys realize 50 watts into a 100 dB speaker is 117 dB. With both speakers playing that is over 120 dB which is much louder than any reference movie track and why receivers are just fine.

Marantz 7702 Atmos
Outlaw 7140 and 5000
Speakers- DIY mini arrays for fronts and BFM TLAH for surrounds
subs 2 XXX ported SLLT powered by IPR2-7500.
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post #15 of 39 Old 07-06-2016, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
At 3ft.

Outside. Every room varies, I lose 6 dB at the LP 13 feet away.

Marantz 7702 Atmos
Outlaw 7140 and 5000
Speakers- DIY mini arrays for fronts and BFM TLAH for surrounds
subs 2 XXX ported SLLT powered by IPR2-7500.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
You guys realize 50 watts into a 100 dB speaker is 117 dB. With both speakers playing that is over 120 dB which is much louder than any reference movie track and why receivers are just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Outside. Every room varies, I lose 6 dB at the LP 13 feet away.
But also not everyone has that highly sensitive speaker, even the woofers. I agree, most modern receivers can accommodate most modern sized rooms and setups.

That's why I don't have a power amp. Although, if I wanted to ultilize all available processing channels on my receiver, I would need a power amp. In which case I would probably buy a 2-channel or 3-channel amp for the front stage since they aren't too expensive.

That's also why I don't really care too much about speaker sensitivity. I'm sure I won't be in this small room forever, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it now

Anyway, cannot wait until Friday. At least two subs will be finished. Waiting for the delivery from PE for everything else. Haven't bothered to track it yet.

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #17 of 39 Old 07-06-2016, 09:20 PM
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I use all external amps as I needed XLR for atmos.

Marantz 7702 Atmos
Outlaw 7140 and 5000
Speakers- DIY mini arrays for fronts and BFM TLAH for surrounds
subs 2 XXX ported SLLT powered by IPR2-7500.
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post #18 of 39 Old 07-07-2016, 03:50 PM
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Very nice...
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post #19 of 39 Old 07-08-2016, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patzig View Post
Glad we got to visit again, I need to come hear your room soon. Thanks for taking the HT18's! Guess I'll just have to settle with my remaining 8

Also, we need to make this Texas gtg happen

Good choice. I prefer to have the headroom in the amp. You can always put a limiter on the inuke if you're worried about bottoming out the HT18's.
Swing by anytime! You will have to settle with the remaining 8 unless I drive up and steal some more. Or somehow persuade you to use a couple 21s or 24s since you're deciding on using your smaller room. I mean seriously, can't have the same size subwoofer driver as the woofers in your main speakers.

Overall, I think that room is the best choice based on some of the things you said, and the reasons you gave (don't want to make those things public, incase you had a reason(s) not to do so haha).

I would love to have a G2G, but it quickly died. I guess the limited number of speakers, and or not much organization in that thread.

Well, the idea isn't to just have globs of output, but to push my personal limits without even pushing the drivers limits. So all the usual then falls into place: Low distortion, THD, thermal build up, longevity of the drivers, etc.
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Looks like most of the stuff will arrive early next week, so just a weekend plus a day or two left.
This weekend, two HT18s will be completed, and lots of pics will be taken of this "weekend quickie" build. You know this is one hell of a driver when it continues to have build threads after it has been discontinued....

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #20 of 39 Old 07-10-2016, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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2 HT18s down, 4 to go

I completed two this weekend. Estimated delivery for accessories for the other 4 are due Tuesday, so just a couple more days.
Are there any threads or comments about a comparison between the UM-18 and the HT18 other than 3rd party graphs?

I seriously love these right next to the bed. Ignore the ugly colored sheets. Those are next on the to-do list
Instead of purchasing different gaskets, I used the supplied ones, but cut the bottom end off and solely used it. It worked very well and easy since it already have aligned screw holes.













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chadsmith013, Rowan611 and Patzig like this.

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey

Last edited by bgtighe23; 07-10-2016 at 07:30 PM.
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post #21 of 39 Old 07-14-2016, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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so the plan is to still use the 6000DSP for the other 4 subs

@LTD02 can you or anyone really, comment with the appropriate wiring diagram? The HT18s should be D2s

Two HT18s wired together so they can run on each channel of the iNuke.

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #22 of 39 Old 07-14-2016, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
so the plan is to still use the 6000DSP for the other 4 subs

@LTD02 can you or anyone really, comment with the appropriate wiring diagram? The HT18s should be D2s

Two HT18s wired together so they can run on each channel of the iNuke.

with those options, it can be wired for 2 ohms or 8 ohms per channel.


the inuke may not like 2 ohms per channel, so 8 ohms may be the best bet.


drivers wired up like this using 1+ and 1- on the speakon. 1+ and 1- are used on both left and right channels. 2+ and 2- are NOT used.


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post #23 of 39 Old 07-17-2016, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Listening impressions and a few thoughts on a pair of UM-18s and SI HT18s are coming later today.
These things mean serious business near field. Wow.

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #24 of 39 Old 07-17-2016, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
with those options, it can be wired for 2 ohms or 8 ohms per channel.

the inuke may not like 2 ohms per channel, so 8 ohms may be the best bet.
drivers wired up like this using 1+ and 1- on the speakon. 1+ and 1- are used on both left and right channels. 2+ and 2- are NOT used.
What would be the preferred way to connect the Positive and Negative between the two separate cabs? Binding posts? another set of SpeakOns?

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #25 of 39 Old 07-19-2016, 08:13 AM
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Subscribed! I also got 2 of the HT18s from Patzig. Haven't built the enclosures yet (still working on the dedicated room), and I already wish I had bought 2 more (which Patzig said would be the case). In any case, if a GTG ever solidifies...I'm in!
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post #26 of 39 Old 07-22-2016, 01:24 PM
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I have six UM 18 and 2 SI HT 18's. SQ, they are the same to me. I can' t say one is better or worese with movies and music. That's why I'm keeping them, lol.
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post #27 of 39 Old 07-22-2016, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah i don't notice any real difference. Just that the HT18s are so much more tactile due to them being near field. So I'd say things are going awesome.

When being pushed, it's clear the UM-18s can handle more power, but that seems to be pretty much offset by the near field placement of the HT18s. That's a cool thing. ULF is a different story, but that's why I'm still adding at least 4 more HT18s

I'm curious how things will sound when the other 4 are built. With that much surface area and moving coils, I doubt all even come close to pushing anything close to its limits, so everything should pretty be pushed with the same amount of voltage.
Going to be nice, smooth, powerful, low distortion bass.

Based on measurements, there's room for a 4th sub on each front stack

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #28 of 39 Old 04-16-2017, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I figured I would just add these pics to this dead thread of mine...

Pictures pretty much explain the game plan,
but I will say that I moved the HT18s up the stairs by myself and as far as accomplishments go, thats a high one on the list because that b**** is heavy.
I tried to get a UM-18 on top of the HT18s, but was unsuccessful. But this is how the subs will rest for now until more get added to the room.

Game plan is that there will be at least another dual HT18s cab. Both of those cabs (4 drivers) will run off a single 6000DSP. Each cab is wired to 8ohms, one on each channel of the amp.

Room is still in progress.
I will still need to pull everything (subs, media stand things) to re-wire and run new wire for the subs.









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_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #29 of 39 Old 04-18-2017, 11:19 AM
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lol how tf did you get that cab up the stairs by yourself? I'll help you get the next one up lol. How's it sound? Any weirdness?
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post #30 of 39 Old 04-18-2017, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patzig View Post
lol how tf did you get that cab up the stairs by yourself? I'll help you get the next one up lol. How's it sound? Any weirdness?
I didn't hook it up Sunday. We got into town about 7:45pm and I just didn't want to mess with it anymore after I got it into place. Was too tired haha.
I will be this weekend though.

Basically just rolled it on up haha. Used the stairs as pivot points, I suppose they could be called. Actually took less than 5 minutes.

Youre coming to Katy this weekend right?

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 2 and 3 Towers
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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