NWCgrad's JBL Pro Active Three-Way Build - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 702 Old 07-19-2016, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
By then, the M2 might be affordable Awesome project Captain - rock steady.
It already is, lol.

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post #32 of 702 Old 07-19-2016, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
The ability of FIR filters to set really steep crossover slopes while keeping phase under control is intriguing. Programs like rePhase make FIR-based crossovers readily accessible for the DIY community. I keep track of this capability but do not think I yet have the acumen to make it work. Perhaps someday a easy to use solution will be readily available.

there is a step by step guide for the rephrase tool. it seems a lot more complicated than it is. it just requires measuring the speaker in rew, loading the file into rephrase, and you're done. then you can tweak it however you like. no knowledge about 'convolution engines' or anything else is actually required. one downside is the processing delay on live audio (which is not a problem with movies, but video games and live sports could be a problem depending on how much delay the phase linearization requires). a mixed system where the midrange is linear and the bass is iir filtered seems to be one way to minimize that issue. i suppose all i am saying here is the rephrase step by step guide is pretty simple, so don't let the apparent complexity of implementing linear phase deter experimentation.
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post #33 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, it does seem logical to not use FIR filters with low frequency due to the number of taps required (and resultant delay as you indicated). Delay on sports would not be cool.

Spending all week at a programmatic review of future medical systems to enhance warfighter performance. Lots of talk about the development, testing and validation of in silico testbeds to aid with development and FDA clearance. All I could think of was to use this build as an "in plywoodo testbed" to test multiple DSP solutions to loudspeaker control. Yep, I have gone loco.
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post #34 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 05:51 AM
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^
Spending all week at a programmatic review of future medical systems to enhance warfighter performance. Lots of talk about the development, testing and validation of in silico testbeds to aid with development and FDA clearance. All I could think of was to use this build as an "in plywoodo testbed" to test multiple DSP solutions to loudspeaker control. Yep, I have gone loco.

WOW - just reading that almost made me want to take a nap - retirement does have some soothing options,
my vote is for the "in plywoodo testbed".

keep up the good work

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post #35 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 09:31 AM
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Ugh. FIR filters....

How did we ever get by with out them?

Oh right. We have and do.

Seems like a waste of resources to focus on that kind of stuff at this point. But that's just my 2% of $1.
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post #36 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Spending all week at a programmatic review of future medical systems to enhance warfighter performance. Lots of talk about the development, testing and validation of in silico testbeds to aid with development and FDA clearance.
Don't forget to test it in 115F heat, pump in baby powder into the room and vary the voltage from 70V to 150V to make sure it actually works this time. Yeah, I know how well the EMEDS system worked...

Do you plan on putting wheels on the back of the speaker boxes so they can be easily moved when need be? I'm about the same age as you and put handles on my 100+ pound speakers
and subs--because I'm not getting younger and know the garage stuff will move eventually. Good luck!
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post #37 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
^
Spending all week at a programmatic review of future medical systems to enhance warfighter performance. Lots of talk about the development, testing and validation of in silico testbeds to aid with development and FDA clearance. All I could think of was to use this build as an "in plywoodo testbed" to test multiple DSP solutions to loudspeaker control. Yep, I have gone loco.

WOW - just reading that almost made me want to take a nap - retirement does have some soothing options,
my vote is for the "in plywoodo testbed".

keep up the good work
I wish I was retirement eligible! Two more years till 20, then 2 more to retire at final rank. No telling where I will be headed next, hopefully somewhere where I would like to retire.

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post #38 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
Don't forget to test it in 115F heat, pump in baby powder into the room and vary the voltage from 70V to 150V to make sure it actually works this time. Yeah, I know how well the EMEDS system worked...

Do you plan on putting wheels on the back of the speaker boxes so they can be easily moved when need be? I'm about the same age as you and put handles on my 100+ pound speakers
and subs--because I'm not getting younger and know the garage stuff will move eventually. Good luck!
There have been some epic fails over the years to be sure!

I am leaning towards wheels on the back, these suckers will be heavy. I looked at some on the Woodcraft website that look really cool http://m.woodcraft.com/product/14951...d-4-pack.aspx], add a big footer up front and should be good to go. Probably won't go with this exact item ($25 each is a bit much for wheels) but dual function (portability and stabilization) is cool.
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post #39 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Ugh. FIR filters....

How did we ever get by with out them?

Oh right. We have and do.

Seems like a waste of resources to focus on that kind of stuff at this point. But that's just my 2% of $1.
Not planning on adding or changing DSP until 2017 at the earliest. I like the features 9f the dbx Venu360 and it is FIR free.

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post #40 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 12:43 PM
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I wonder how much better the M2's are?
2216Nd is supposed to be one crazy woofer.
Still love my 4pi's.

Sorry off topic a little NWC, still excited to see this build, you were one of the people who influenced me on the pi's.
Haven't had much desire to upgrade, but I can live vicariously through you
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post #41 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 12:46 PM
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I think I've seen that movie "Fir Free" but you might have misspelled . .

https://www.google.com/search?q=hair...N10KB_PnNNM%3D
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post #42 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 12:49 PM
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I wonder how much better the M2's are?
2216Nd is supposed to be one crazy woofer.
A "lot" better....
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post #43 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 12:51 PM
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I had been planning to use HF dollies for Max v3 but your woodcraft wheels idea, at least on the rear of the cabinet for moving, for me especially from the outside and around to the back of the house
won't go thru the front door . .
>sounds really smart .

and easier . . .

TY

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post #44 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 01:00 PM
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found this : Adjustable Mobile Base for Power Tools HTC-2000 over at Amazon,

of course you have to get the sub up and into the frame,

nice but I have to get it into the house first . . .

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post #45 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post
I wonder how much better the M2's are?
2216Nd is supposed to be one crazy woofer.
Still love my 4pi's.

Sorry off topic a little NWC, still excited to see this build, you were one of the people who influenced me on the pi's.
Haven't had much desire to upgrade, but I can live vicariously through you
You can just go buy a 2216Nd, they're only like 500 bucks.
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post #46 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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You can just go buy a 2216Nd, they're only like 500 bucks.
Actually they are even less: http://www.prosoundservice.com/57.html?m9:search[keyword]=2216;search[keywordSearchType]=phrase;search[matchWholeWords]=0;search[keywordFields]=code:string0:text0;search[nested]=1;search[group]=232247;search[fuzzy_sku]=1

I gave serious thought to building an M2 clone, but in the end went after a modern version of the classic JBL monitor! I have a PowerPoint with all the info if anyone wants it.

The 2216nd models very well in winISD.

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post #47 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I had been planning to use HF dollies for Max v3 but your woodcraft wheels idea, at least on the rear of the cabinet for moving, for me especially from the outside and around to the back of the house
won't go thru the front door . .
>sounds really smart .

and easier . . .

TY
Yeah, my feet probably won't work as the speaker is to wide for most interior doors. Damn.

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post #48 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post
I wonder how much better the M2's are?
2216Nd is supposed to be one crazy woofer.
Still love my 4pi's.

Sorry off topic a little NWC, still excited to see this build, you were one of the people who influenced me on the pi's.
Haven't had much desire to upgrade, but I can live vicariously through you
Really, with subs no need to upgrade. I am trying the next step.

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post #49 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
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There have been some epic fails over the years to be sure!

I am leaning towards wheels on the back, these suckers will be heavy. I looked at some on the Woodcraft website that look really cool http://m.woodcraft.com/product/14951...d-4-pack.aspx], add a big footer up front and should be good to go. Probably won't go with this exact item ($25 each is a bit much for wheels) but dual function (portability and stabilization) is cool.
Understand that!

Heat + bad power + baby powder dust + fan cooling = Epic ride on the fail whale.

So for the wheels, are you going to have the speakers sitting on the wheels for support or will they only come into play when you lean the boxes back to move them? The link 404'd on me so I never got to see what type they were. My preference is to have the wheels only in use when the cabs are tilted back to be moved but will the wheels resonate without any weight on them?

As a refugee from the 90's carrying around PA speakers--wheels are good!
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post #50 of 702 Old 07-20-2016, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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They are only on the wheels when they are engaged, they have a rubber bumper which contacts the floor (adjustable) for stability. Built for large, heavy power tools (600 lb rating).

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post #51 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 04:16 AM
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Might as well go all in and trade the 2242 for the 2269 drivers if your goal is ultimate performance. There is no kill like overkill
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post #52 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 06:16 AM
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Might as well go all in and trade the 2242 for the 2269 drivers if your goal is ultimate performance. There is no kill like overkill
I would take the 2242 over the 2269 in a 3 way. In a true subwoofer I would take the 2269 for the lows. Different
applications for each driver.
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post #53 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Might as well go all in and trade the 2242 for the 2269 drivers if your goal is ultimate performance. There is no kill like overkill
Well....I will have two empty 4645B cabinets (8 cu ft, 25 Hz tune) that the 2269 drivers would just drop right in. I "think" the 2242 is actually better for this build based on its better sensitivity at higher frequencies (>200 Hz).


My midhorn flat packs are on the way, delivery date is 27 July. I guess they are coming from Oregon by pony express.

My 3 pairs of box clamps will arrive today.

I have two sheets of 60" × 60" Baltic Birch (1 is 18 mm thick, the second is 12 mm). The 12 mm sheet will be used for braces. I also several .75" × .75" × 36" hardwood square dowels that will serve as battons for gluing the cabinets. Lots of plywood purchases to be made, luckily we have a great wood supply store here in Frederick so I don't have to go to the big box store and settle for inferior plywood. Will buy a sheet of 0.5" MDF for lining the inside of the cabinets. I would think having two different material densities should aid with damping cabinet resonances (these are pretty big cabinets, I have not shown the wife a full scale mockup as that may be counter-productive).

What I need now is for @Mfusick to drive down to Maryland with his Festool track saw!!!!

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post #54 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 08:23 AM
 
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Steve check for a refurb deal. They run them from time to time, I'd imagine probably the cordless is next. I got track, systainer, festool carbide blade, accessories, and saw for I believe $332 shipped. It was best deal IMO, it was obviously brand new and not even a scratch on it. I've cut literally hundreds of sheets of mdf and ply and it's been so rock solid and awesome. I just installed a Frued industrial blade, the festool stock blade lasted me 3 years and hundreds of sheets. I ripped microlam LVL beams (1.5" thick) which is heavy duty ply without any fuss. I also ripped up 1.5" mdf (trupan ultralite) without trouble. Dust collection is so amazing you could cut mdf on the kitchen table and wife won't care. It's quiet too. A portable vac is all you need. For doing DIY sub and speakers and for someone who can't afford or want to store a proper table saw its a great solution. Makita and Dewalt make a nice one, not quite as good but with the sales they run about half price as an alternative. And if you really tight on budget Grizzly has a smaller one for only $99! I thin it's a 5" blade but enough for sheet goods under 1" thick.
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post #55 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Steve check for a refurb deal. They run them from time to time, I'd imagine probably the cordless is next. I got track, systainer, festool carbide blade, accessories, and saw for I believe $332 shipped. It was best deal IMO, it was obviously brand new and not even a scratch on it.
Wow, that is great price for a great tool!

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Grizzly has a smaller one for only $99! I think it's a 5" blade but enough for sheet goods under 1" thick.
Hmmm...will have to give this little bugger a look.

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post #56 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Working on the bracing scheme, using the bracing of the JBL 4345 as a go-by.

4345 for those who are not sure what these old timers look like:


Bracing scheme (the Midhorn adds complications, will finalize dimensions and side view once I get the Midhorn's built):
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post #57 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 09:47 AM
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Do you plan on making the midhorn self contained or open to the rest of the enclosure?
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post #58 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Open, with bracing of the horn flares. Fully enclosed is very large volume. Making the driver enclosure 0.5 cu ft, 12" × 16" × X, where X is flush with rear panel for driver access panel. May be a bit tricky to get the dimensions just right.

Here are some doodles of the Midhorn package:
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post #59 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 09:57 AM
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Oh wow. That looks...complicated.

I just "boxed" the whole horn. Keeps it sealed, of course but give it a rectangular shape. If you did the same, it could make life easier trying to design the bracing.

Just a suggestion.
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post #60 of 702 Old 07-21-2016, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm a scientist, over complicating things is what I do (then come up with elaborate, convoluted theories on why it didn't work as planned). When I ran mobile biological agent detection labs in the field I always brought two navy Corpsmen, their main job was to keep the scientists from chasing good idea fairies and to stay focused on the task. We have a serious problem with bright shiny objects, just like ADHD kids on steroids.

Probably should have an engineer do the designingdesigning aspect of the project.
rcohen likes this.

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