Official JBL CS1214 thread - Replacement for Infinity 1260/1262 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 03:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Official JBL CS1214 thread - Replacement for Infinity 1260/1262

After a suggestion by @Johnny P and the discussions regarding the discontinuation of the Infinity that take place at the Infinity thread by @eng-399 , it was decided that there was a need for an official JBL CS1214 thread. The JBL seems to be the closest driver to the Infinity we can now get for around the same money. It can be bought for around 43USD in the US, 35-45GBP in the UK, 50-65 Euros in Germany.

This is a new thread regarding a driver that has not been used extensively yet so the thread will be updated continuously. I hope everyone can contribute to this thread so we can gather all the information we all need. I am quite new to this and not an experienced DIYer or technical person, so whenever someone has anything to contribute we would all appreciate it. A lot of thanks go to @LTD02 and @A9X-308 for all their help in my original thread.

Links to new builds, your measurements etc are always welcome.

------

While the JBL seems to be the closest alternative we now have, there are some differences that are worth mentioning.

The Xmax of the driver is 12.1mm overhang. As LTD02 explains "a typical value for xmax is overhang plus about 1/3 of gap, so about 14.7mm. The next stop would be 'usable' which might include another 1/3 of the gap, so about 17.3mm. The next stop would be where the coil leaves the gap, which would typically be xlim (assuming nothing else is happening such as the spider meeting the top plate or the former striking the back plate), which would be about 19.9mm.

For modelling... use about 15mm and if it went over by a couple mm that would be fine...something around 500 nominal watts for a home theater application. 250w is probably the safer bet for extended music blasting." This is for a sealed configuration in a 50L box.

Fs: JBL is 28hz, Infinity is 23.5hz.
Vas: JBL is 76.6L, Infinity is 82.96L

I managed to find some distortion graphs of the driver from a German home theatre forum. They seem to praise the driver for what it costs. I am not sure if I am allowed to upload the graphs and/or provide links to the forum. If yes, I will upload and reference as required. Any input on this is appreciated.


-------

Personally my original plan was a Full Marty, but after consideration I thought that 8 nearfield were the better choice for my needs. 4 drivers in series-parallel will be wired on each channel on an inuke 6k

Based on what I have gathered and the WinISD models, multiple 12' JBL enclosures would have multiple advantages over the Ultimax. More air will be moved, possibly more dbs depending on the speakers and power, more flexible positioning (can also act as TV/Speaker stands), more db room gain due to multiple subs, better response due to multiple speakers, more extension when going with sealed, and easier to build. Stacking them would also produce more db gain.

Here are some models of sealed drivers for comparison. These are with a frist order high pass @ 10hz to simulate the inuke 6k roll off.
Orange: 4 and 8 JBLs in 50L boxes, Qtc 0.704, Ql 10, Qa 4. Xmax @ 21hz, 380w per driver
Yellow: 4 and 8 Infinity 1260w in 37.5L boxes, Qtc 0.705, Ql 10, Qa 100. Xmax @ 20hz, 395w per driver
Green: 1 and 2 UM18-22 in 200L, Qtc 0.706, Ql 10, Qa 8. Xmax @ 17hz, 1340w per driver.

As you can see both the JBL and the Infinity have an advantage over the sealed UM-18. The models have also been spot on when eng-399 tested the drivers, which is a good thing. Following are the two test he has completed so far comparing the JBL to the Infinity and to everyones surprise, the JBL is louder than the Infinity!

Thanks go to eng-399 for letting me post his measurements. Purple line is the JBL and green is the Infinity 1260.



In addition a test was completed to compare the 1.7cf to a 1.3cf box before driver and bracing. Needless to say the the bigger box has an advantage.

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Last edited by styjp; 08-16-2016 at 03:30 AM.
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post #2 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 03:00 AM - Thread Starter
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RTA calibration

A nice measurement technique a lot of people have used successfully as alternative to sweeps but much faster in order to calibrate their system. Credits go to @1201 for introducing this method to us.

"Set everything flat, and the open the RTA in room eq wizard and set it to to the settings im attaching. then open the generator and select sub pink noise, hit play, go back to your rta and hit record. hold the mic and sweep your listening area for about 30 seconds, then stop. once you have a graph, hit the save button and it will create a measurement. then use REW to create an eq curve for you. and then do the sweep again and see what it looks like."

PDF paper
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Last edited by styjp; 09-16-2016 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Update
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post #3 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Reserved 2

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post #4 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 12:19 PM
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cool.
from my notes on the driver, I have gap at 7.8mm, coil at 32mm which gives 12.1mm overhang.
a typical value for xmax is overhang plus about 1/3 of gap, so about 14.7mm.
the next stop would be 'usable' which might include another 1/3 of the gap, so about 17.3mm.
the next stop would be where the coil leaves the gap, which would typically be xlim (assuming nothing else is happening such as the spider meeting the top plate or the former striking the back plate), which would be about 19.9mm.


for modeling, I'd probably use about 15mm and if it went over by a couple mm that would be fine.


there is a place that is offering free shipping and an additional 30% off the already low $43 price, so to your door for $30.07 each. ;-)


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post #5 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 12:30 PM
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@LTD02
Thanks for the information guys. Its much appreciated.
This looks to be a good sub for beginners as well as people with small budgets.

Is this sub better suited to be used as a nearfield sub or far field?
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post #6 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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@Johnny P
Although I am far from experienced to answer this, I don't see why these could not be used in both situations if the spl reaching your LP is sufficient. I will be using them directly behind the LPs and that's why I chose sealed and take advantage of the lower frequencies without the need to use a highpass on the inuke and simplify the build.

@LTD02
Thank you for the info, I added it and referenced you in the first post, hope that's ok.

If we are using 15mm as xmax, what would the maximum wattage you would recommend, taking into consideration the thermal perspective? Although these are 250w rms, when I model one using 15mm as xmax the model reaches 560w system input power and 325VA. First order HP 10hz + Second order LP80hz which are typical in a home theatre use.
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post #7 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 08:14 PM
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that seems about right. something around 500 nominal watts for a home theater application. 250w is probably the safer bet for extended music blasting.
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post #8 of 324 Old 08-13-2016, 09:23 PM
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Best of luck with the build. Keep us updated. Pics or it didnt happen. Lol
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post #9 of 324 Old 08-14-2016, 12:52 AM
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How do these JBL's do in a vented alignment? How about building two separate cabs at roughly 7-10cu/ft each cabinet loaded with a single JBL CS-1214 powered by one channel from an iNuke1000dsp or even an inuke3000dsp, if it could handle it?
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post #10 of 324 Old 08-14-2016, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
How do these JBL's do in a vented alignment? How about building two separate cabs at roughly 7-10cu/ft each cabinet loaded with a single JBL CS-1214 powered by one channel from an iNuke1000dsp or even an inuke3000dsp, if it could handle it?
These do well in a large vented box. They do require some space. Here is a rough model with a 7cf box, 250W, HP 20hz. You get much more spl than the sealed above the tuning frequency.
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post #11 of 324 Old 08-14-2016, 03:51 PM
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I just posted this question in the infinity thread before seeing this one. Sorry for the repost but this is the proper place for it. How will these do in an i-clops style box?
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post #12 of 324 Old 08-15-2016, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnoble83 View Post
I just posted this question in the infinity thread before seeing this one. Sorry for the repost but this is the proper place for it. How will these do in an i-clops style box?


I think it should work fine but the jbl has a higher Fs so I am not sure. Generally it is better to go for purpose built designs but as you know mike has been testing the jbl and its response seems almost identical to the infinity, but with higher spl.

Hopefully someone else can chip in, but if you need a sub, i would just buy them now as they are on sale and decide on the design later.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnoble83 View Post
I just posted this question in the infinity thread before seeing this one. Sorry for the repost but this is the proper place for it. How will these do in an i-clops style box?
Hopefully somewhat soon @eng-399 and myself will be able to answer that. He picked up a couple drivers and when he gets some time he was going to try them in his sealed boxes, and then bring them by me to try in my iCLOps's.


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post #14 of 324 Old 08-15-2016, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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That's great to hear. So far the jbl seems to have been exceeding expectations and performing exactly as they model in sealed configs. I am loving what I see


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Just got off the phone with soniceelectronics. They have 150 pcs of the jbls
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Based on the dimensions they look like they would be drop-ins for the PE 1.5cu flat pack. What you all think? At $30 ea thinking of ordering two.
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Based on the dimensions they look like they would be drop-ins for the PE 1.5cu flat pack. What you all think? At $30 ea thinking of ordering two.

Or for 120.00 you can get 4. Lol.
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@VectorLabs

Like eng-399 said, 1.3-1.7 is good place to start so 1.5 should be okay. As Johnny says above, for a sealed configuration you will need to go for 4+ if you need sufficient bass for HT use. For 30 bucks, it's a steal

I will have 8 of them hooked up in a couple of weeks and will update the thread.

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post #19 of 324 Old 08-15-2016, 02:34 PM
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@eng-399 thank you for posting this. Do you think we can compare 4 sealed JBLs to 1 sealed UM18 as the winisd models suggest? So far your measurement tests represent the models nicely


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Interesting,

I have a JBL GTO 1214 with passive radiators and it has worked well for the past 4 years. The GTO went away but the Infinity 1260 looked to be a worthwhile replacement.

Although the CS1214 looks like a decent nearfield type sub, I am very hesitant to mix it with the GTO 1214...feel it might be a bit...wrong. Any idea if Harmon plans on replacing the GTO and 1260 series with a suitable lateral replacement or is it the WGti thing, the Infinity black/gold pimp series and then the CS series?

At this point, I'm looking at the Alpine SWS15 As the "go to" sub for small/medium rooms in a 6 to 7 cu. ft. box. If the CS1214 requires a 7 cu. ft. box tuned to 20Hz...it might be more costly to purchase the plywood than the driver.

Does Harmon normally cancel a sub series then announce a new one at CES? I've noted the GTO series was never replaced and now the Infinity 1260 series is gone. Just wondering why they have a bargain sub and expensive subs while skipping the middle entirely.
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I'm also waiting to see what it does in an i-Clops box...... buddy of mine needs a sub for his den.
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i just placed an order for 2 of these. Couldn't pass on the $30 per sub price. Waiting for an i-clops/ported design. Thanks guys for all the effort you are putting into this.
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Curious, how would the JBL-GTO1214 and their CS1214, stand up compared to the Infinity 1260? Which is the best value?
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post #25 of 324 Old 08-16-2016, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Curious, how would the JBL-GTO1214 and their CS1214, stand up compared to the Infinity 1260? Which is the best value?
Don't know about the GTO but check the last pages of the Infinity thread for a comparison measurement of the CS1214 vs the Infinity 1260 eng-399 has done. The JBL is louder.

I will also update this thread to include the measurements.

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post #26 of 324 Old 08-17-2016, 02:22 PM
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I grabbed a pair of these just to check out, I thought I would share the T/S specs I measured on one after some break in:

* This data was exported from DATS the Dayton Audio Test System
*
* Manufacturer: JBL
* Model: CS1214 #1
* Piston Diameter = 260.4 mm
* f(s)= 25.57 Hz
* R(e)= 3.439 Ohms
* Z(max)= 40.8 Ohms
* Q(ms)= 6.488
* Q(es)= 0.5972
* Q(ts)= 0.5468
* V(as)= 104.6 liters (3.694 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 3.16 mH
* n(0)= 0.2792 %
* SPL= 86.56 1W/1m (90.72dB 2.83v/1m)
* M(ms)= 147.4 grams
* C(ms)= 0.263 mm/N
* BL= 11.68

A few other thoughts, I would not use these past about 15mm as the spider really locks up beyond that point and audible distortion ramps up quite a bit when trying to push them further. But they are nice and quiet up to rated xmax. The 1260w/1262w followed a similar pattern. Likely designed with durability in mind to prevent over excursion and bottoming.
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once again, nice.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
I'm also waiting to see what it does in an i-Clops box...... buddy of mine needs a sub for his den.

the motor strength is a little on the weak side for a smallish ported cab. given the low price of the drivers, I'd suggest just doubling up and going sealed. so why not go for larger ported? the price of the wood is almost the same as the price of the drivers, yet doubling up the drivers also gives an increase in the upper end spl.

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post #29 of 324 Old 08-17-2016, 06:13 PM
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I don't NEED these, but I sure am having a hard time not pulling the trigger on 4.
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post #30 of 324 Old 08-17-2016, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I don't NEED these, but I sure am having a hard time not pulling the trigger on 4.


Pull it!


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