Quad HS24's to BHS24's - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 107 Old 02-20-2017, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bpgunning View Post
Almost certainly no. That would mean each channel would effectively be seeing a 1-ohm load and there are almost no amps that are 1-ohm capable.
That's what I figured. Waiting to hear back from cv engineering.
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post #62 of 107 Old 02-20-2017, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
The 4000w and 6000w SP amps operate fine at 1ohm.
Really!? Wow! The amp choices are narrowing for me.
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post #63 of 107 Old 02-20-2017, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
If you can't accommodate the huge ported boxes, look into increasing your sealed box to 15-16ft^3. I went through the same mindset as you in my 10ft^3 box. I've gone full tilt with the sp1-4000 amp and the cone wasn't really moving compared to free air. I stepped up to the bigger amp and the results are the same; except I'm now reluctant in pushing it (the 6000w will most like give the BHS an issue if pushed too long).

Doubling the power is only 3db. Seeing you'd be way over the max rating, it's not worth the risk, imo.
I see...🤔

I think a clean 8kw per driver, occasionally, will make a noticeable difference in my application.

Currently I'm using 2 BHS and 2 cv5. Soundstage will be better once I complete basement redo and place all 4 drivers. They sound incredible already! What's the use in driving more than 40% of their capacity?

When will this stop 😆

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post #64 of 107 Old 02-22-2017, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cowboyupatl View Post
I see...🤔

I think a clean 8kw per driver, occasionally, will make a noticeable difference in my application.

Currently I'm using 2 BHS and 2 cv5. Soundstage will be better once I complete basement redo and place all 4 drivers. They sound incredible already! What's the use in driving more than 40% of their capacity?

When will this stop 😆
Some sims to assist you determine next steps with your setup. Someone else did this for me as I didn't like the idea of leaving untapped potential from the BHS.
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post #65 of 107 Old 02-22-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
Some sims to assist you determine next steps with your setup. Someone else did this for me as I didn't like the idea of leaving untapped potential from the BHS.
These sealed box sizes?
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post #66 of 107 Old 02-22-2017, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BBLV View Post
These sealed box sizes?
Yes, sealed.
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post #67 of 107 Old 02-25-2017, 04:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
Some sims to assist you determine next steps with your setup. Someone else did this for me as I didn't like the idea of leaving untapped potential from the BHS.
Nice, thanks! I like the 16cft wave better but the size of the 10cft enclosures. I'll have to stick with the enclosures already built. I like the symmetrical shape and size of the 10-11cft enclosures.

Actually I've been playing with the eq and these things sound incredible! I was very happy with the HS24's and very happy with these BHS24's. The only real difference for me is they handle more power. Experiencing how much output I'm leaving on the table is driving the urge for more wattage 😆
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post #68 of 107 Old 02-28-2017, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Talked with a pro amplifier repair shop owner operator. Says I'd have to change boards among other components to make these cv5's 2 ohm bridge stable. After I get my bookshelves I'll upgrade my subwoofer amps.

I'm really happy how they sound overall, I love it actually! However, 10hz-ish requires A LOT of wattage. All is well until some ulf material pops up in a movie, then my amps start clipping. I'd rather have that extra wattage on tap for a clean signal. That and knowing except for <14hz, I'm barely make these BHS's move.
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post #69 of 107 Old 03-17-2017, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
Some sims to assist you determine next steps with your setup. Someone else did this for me as I didn't like the idea of leaving untapped potential from the BHS.
For my application these BHS24's need at least 16cuft. The enclosures I built were for the HS24's and are 30" squares@10.25cuft. I'm waiting on the enclosure builder to give me a quote for 4/four 34" squares that'll give me 16cft.

Anyone want very strongly built quadruple 13ply BB baffle with all other sides double layered 13ply BB 10.25 cft enclosures ????

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post #70 of 107 Old 03-18-2017, 09:57 AM
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You guys that are trying to put power to these hungry subs, do you have the available amperage/voltage from your panel to provide "clean" power? Like are you all using dedicated 20-30amp 220v outlets? This is a critical starting point IMO since using half the amount of amps doubles the voltage. Heck my designer mandated all of my screen and sub channels to be ran off of 220v for maximum headroom and clean power.

Amp clipping sucks as well! You all have set up your gain structure properly to maximize the voltage coming out of the sub amps, right? Your amps are clipping at the same point regardless of the subs being connected or not, right?

For anyone following along that isn't quite sure they have their gain structure set to optimally get the very most out of their amps/speakers, here is a very easy to follow procedure to follow. It's lengthy but written to be easily followed.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...s/35677?page=1
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post #71 of 107 Old 03-18-2017, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
You guys that are trying to put power to these hungry subs, do you have the available amperage/voltage from your panel to provide "clean" power? Like are you all using dedicated 20-30amp 220v outlets? This is a critical starting point IMO since using half the amount of amps doubles the voltage. Heck my designer mandated all of my screen and sub channels to be ran off of 220v for maximum headroom and clean power.

Amp clipping sucks as well! You all have set up your gain structure properly to maximize the voltage coming out of the sub amps, right? Your amps are clipping at the same point regardless of the subs being connected or not, right?

For anyone following along that isn't quite sure they have their gain structure set to optimally get the very most out of their amps/speakers, here is a very easy to follow procedure to follow. It's lengthy but written to be easily followed.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...s/35677?page=1
Thanks for the info.

What I'm after is to maximize my drivers in my application. >30hz satisfaction was reached with 18's, I'm sure I would've been fine with 12's. I like the full spectrum of frequencies but I adore the single digits. I've always had a passion for sound, high quality sound. I compromise for the most part but not when it comes to the first octave.

I'm totally happy with the BHS24's. However, to maximize their potential in my application I either need to upgrade my amplifiers for more available clean wattage or I use bigger enclosures to pull more single digits. Sure, I have the minidsp boosted around 10hz with a low shelf but in my sealed enclosures I run out of wattage way before they reach their potential.

Which brings me back to either try and sell my cv5 amplifiers to buy 220v 10k watt amplifiers or keep the cv5's and make the enclosures bigger. I really like the cv5's reliability long term. We used them leisurely in the USN (submarine sonar) as well as knowing people that used them for years in the civilian world. I wish I could get my BHS24's dual 4 ohm voice coil, I'd put 2 cv-5 amps on each driver but that's not an option.

I rarely push my toys. However, when I feel like a session, I want to experience the effects of the BHS24's single digit potential, in my application. Ported and IB aren't my preference. For my ears, sealed is the only option. Had I known I'd end up upgrading to this house furniture/pieces of art, I would've built 34-36" square enclosures initially.

Such is life, forever evolving...

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post #72 of 107 Old 03-19-2017, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cowboyupatl View Post
These things need 4000 watts per coil in a sealed configuration.
The PowerSoft X8 does 10.4kW x 4 @ 4-ohm and 5.2kW x 8 @ 2-ohm

It supports 120V, 240V and also 3-Phase power as well.

4 bridged FP14k clones is 14kW x 4 or 56kW @ 4-ohm.


Never enough cones. Never enough power. Never enough circuit breakers. Never enough bass.
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post #73 of 107 Old 03-19-2017, 01:06 PM
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Never enough cones. Never enough power. Never enough circuit breakers. Never enough bass.
should build a suspended floor
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post #74 of 107 Old 03-19-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
The PowerSoft X8 does 10.4kW x 4 @ 4-ohm and 5.2kW x 8 @ 2-ohm

It supports 120V, 240V and also 3-Phase power as well.

4 bridged FP14k clones is 14kW x 4 or 56kW @ 4-ohm.
In fact, the X8 will have 8*5200 watts only with 12 dB crest factor. They can give 8*700 watt for a few seconds and then 400 watts each. They are much better used in 4 ways large systems as a loudspeaker management system. With all that processing and limiting, they would be wasted on bass duty only. There are lots of cheaper options, more powerful.

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post #75 of 107 Old 03-21-2017, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Cleaned my signal chain to and from minidsp. I replaced the patched together wiring with high grade low/no noise aircraft wiring that was going to be thrown out. I forgot about all the twisted, spliced and taped long wire I rushed to put together when I initially got the HS24's. Figuring the minidsp will clean it up anyway. Obviously there's more to the type of quality signal going from receiver sub out-minidsp-amplifiers. It still doesn't quite make sense because I didn't perceive a bad/low quality audio signal but the more I think of it in terms of strictly electronic signals the more it's making sense.

Wow, it made a noticeable difference. My amps still run out of wattage before the BHS24's but I got a substantial increase of clean wattage from the amps to the speakers. I never put an oscope on the output of the amps but there's a obvious difference in what my drivers are getting. I didn't change speaker wire from amp to drivers, only the wires out the receiver to the minidsp and minidsp to amplifiers.

I'm on to something after reading the above link, thanks @audiovideoholic . Maybe I don't need to upgrade amps.
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post #76 of 107 Old 03-22-2017, 06:12 AM
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Many professional reviewers say they can tell a difference between interconnects just not speaker wires or hdmi with audio. I think there are still plenty of voodoo interconnects but high quality should be better than a spliced/patched cable as you proved lol.
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post #77 of 107 Old 03-23-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cowboyupatl View Post
Cleaned my signal chain to and from minidsp. I replaced the patched together wiring with high grade low/no noise aircraft wiring that was going to be thrown out. I forgot about all the twisted, spliced and taped long wire I rushed to put together when I initially got the HS24's. Figuring the minidsp will clean it up anyway. Obviously there's more to the type of quality signal going from receiver sub out-minidsp-amplifiers. It still doesn't quite make sense because I didn't perceive a bad/low quality audio signal but the more I think of it in terms of strictly electronic signals the more it's making sense.

Wow, it made a noticeable difference. My amps still run out of wattage before the BHS24's but I got a substantial increase of clean wattage from the amps to the speakers. I never put an oscope on the output of the amps but there's a obvious difference in what my drivers are getting. I didn't change speaker wire from amp to drivers, only the wires out the receiver to the minidsp and minidsp to amplifiers.

I'm on to something after reading the above link, thanks @audiovideoholic . Maybe I don't need to upgrade amps.
Did you change your gain structure? If your gain structure doesn't have enough headroom, it's possible for either your receiver or the MiniDSP to clip before you reach maximum output from the amp.
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post #78 of 107 Old 03-24-2017, 07:28 AM
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@cowboyupatl I saw that Nick posted some new pics and info about a 24" neo BHS on his FB page either today or yesterday. Time for you to upgrade again! HEHE
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post #79 of 107 Old 03-24-2017, 09:07 AM
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@cowboyupatl I saw that Nick posted some new pics and info about a 24" neo BHS on his FB page either today or yesterday. Time for you to upgrade again! HEHE

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post #80 of 107 Old 03-24-2017, 10:53 AM
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sweet, ts params soon? Followed shortly after by a fustercluck of klippel debate I'm sure lol. I like the venting.
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post #81 of 107 Old 03-24-2017, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you change your gain structure? If your gain structure doesn't have enough headroom, it's possible for either your receiver or the MiniDSP to clip before you reach maximum output from the amp.
Yes. After I replaced the wires I had to turn the receiver's sub-out down immediately. I then lowered the minidsp and still have to dial it in. I've been so busy with work (job and kids) I haven't had time to tweak it anymore.

Turns out I DO NOT need more power. What I didn't take into consideration about subwoofer companies is all the engineering that goes into optimizing a subwoofer/amp package. There's a lot more to this than just buying a sub driver, amp, enclosure and throwing it all together. I now realize the other element is actually dialing everything in. I bought all the hardware and I'm really good at working on electronics but I'm not as good with the software or the soft parts. Yes, I totally get how the rushed spliced and twisted long wire run lowered and distorted the gain from receiver to minidsp as well as from minidsp to amplifiers. There's a science and/or art to the sub-out levels and eq'ing. It's not as simple as you'd think unless you already know how this works. I've become to comfortable with being able to buy, plug and play lol

Each time I discover a tweak with these toys, it's like I'm hearing the BHS's for the first time all over again!

I'm HAPPY with my purchase 😊
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post #82 of 107 Old 03-24-2017, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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@cowboyupatl I saw that Nick posted some new pics and info about a 24" neo BHS on his FB page either today or yesterday. Time for you to upgrade again! HEHE
WHAT 😱😱😱
I haven't even mounted 2 of my drivers!!!

Actually, I'm not upgrading to another rendition of his 24's unless it's a huge difference in my application. Matter of fact, after realizing I didn't have my receiver and minidsp set up correctly. I have no need to upgrade again.

Unless he comes out with something bigger 😳😳😳
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post #83 of 107 Old 03-24-2017, 05:33 PM
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sweet, ts params soon? Followed shortly after by a fustercluck of klippel debate I'm sure lol. I like the venting.
Haha, yes sir. T/S specs coming soon. Our T/S machine has been broken for a few weeks but we got annother one yesterday so I'm going to have the customer that purchased the neo BHS's swing by the shop pretty soon so I can measure the drivers.
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post #86 of 107 Old 03-27-2017, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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The hard part with my set up is finding a likeable balance, eq'ing the sub drivers for movie and music. My desired eq for music makes it 10db+ too hot for movies. I wish I could set the receivers sub-out level for each source. Currently that's not an option of my 10 year old Yamaha receiver. I'll upgrade that with the release of a pre-turner this fall. Hopefully that's an option.

At high volume it still seems like I'm running out of wattage for single digits. I don't want to increase the volume for >15hz, I just want headroom for the <12hz material.

I'll keep adjusting the signal chain but after tweaking it last night, I don't think the signal is clipping before my amplifiers.

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post #87 of 107 Old 04-12-2017, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
You guys that are trying to put power to these hungry subs, do you have the available amperage/voltage from your panel to provide "clean" power? Like are you all using dedicated 20-30amp 220v outlets? This is a critical starting point IMO since using half the amount of amps doubles the voltage. Heck my designer mandated all of my screen and sub channels to be ran off of 220v for maximum headroom and clean power.

Amp clipping sucks as well! You all have set up your gain structure properly to maximize the voltage coming out of the sub amps, right? Your amps are clipping at the same point regardless of the subs being connected or not, right?

For anyone following along that isn't quite sure they have their gain structure set to optimally get the very most out of their amps/speakers, here is a very easy to follow procedure to follow. It's lengthy but written to be easily followed.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...s/35677?page=1

You were/are absolutely correct, thanks a lot!

I was afraid to turn the 12<hz up because I thought i was running out of wattage. Turns out I had all the output and input signals wrong. After turning the minidsp down further, I was able to turn the desired frequency way up. I still run out of wattage if I get stupid with it but it sounds so much better. They sound wonderful and I'm looking forward to getting the other two BHS24's up and running in the next week or so.
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post #88 of 107 Old 04-12-2017, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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These two subs are in the corners under the screen. In my space they sound better facing each other than facing the seating area.
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post #89 of 107 Old 04-13-2017, 12:03 PM
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You were/are absolutely correct, thanks a lot!

I was afraid to turn the 12<hz up because I thought i was running out of wattage. Turns out I had all the output and input signals wrong. After turning the minidsp down further, I was able to turn the desired frequency way up. I still run out of wattage if I get stupid with it but it sounds so much better. They sound wonderful and I'm looking forward to getting the other two BHS24's up and running in the next week or so.
You're more than welcome! Glad your system is functioning at 100% now ;-) !
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post #90 of 107 Old 05-27-2017, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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You're more than welcome! Glad your system is functioning at 100% now ;-) !
Thanks for the confidence but it'll be closer to 100% once I get my bookshelves and professionally tuned.

This sealed combo turned out to be better than I could've imagined. I still haven't mounted the other 2 yet. Goodness where does the time go, but to be honest, I've been more than satisfied with these 2. My house is already mad at me lol. I'll get them mount soon.

Btw, the movie "Magnificent Seven" has a lot of bass in it. Whoever has a plug with the movie producers, have them put more ulf in the new movies.

Whoever is on the fence about sealed or ported, there's nothing like <10hz. Once you hear it nothing else will be as satisfying. All I can say from learning in USNavy is, if you keep listening, which is tuning your ear, you'll start to hear it...🤝
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