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post #61 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:00 PM
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Build 8 and fire them at the side walls.
No. YOU build 8 and fire them at your side walls.


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post #62 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:02 PM
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lower xmax on the 21sw152 and increased inductance, would still like to see lower fs and higher xmax
Not B&C but this is what I'm drooling over these days:

http://www.harbottleaudio.com/uh21v1.html
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post #63 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Not B&C but this is what I'm drooling over these days:

http://www.harbottleaudio.com/uh21v1.html
specs look ok, price is stupid.
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post #64 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:16 PM
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specs look ok, price is stupid.



...but yes, the price is a bit up there.
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post #65 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Not B&C but this is what I'm drooling over these days:

http://www.harbottleaudio.com/uh21v1.html
That has Funk written all over it.

It is pretty dang cool that he makes his own carbon fiber cones though!
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post #66 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:18 PM
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That has Funk written all over it.

It is pretty dang cool that he makes his own carbon fiber cones though!
yeah definitely funk. Would be interesting at 1/3rd the price.. maybe even half...
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post #67 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:20 PM
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yeah definitely funk. Would be interesting at 1/3rd the price.. maybe even half...
http://www.harbottleaudio.com/guj21v1.html
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post #68 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:22 PM
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weak motor, no care.
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post #69 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:25 PM
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weak motor, no care.
Well, that's what the UH one was for. You have to pay for that kind of motor power and displacement. And all the other high-end frills.
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post #70 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:26 PM
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Well, that's what the UH one was for. You have to pay for that kind of motor power and displacement. And all the other high-end frills.
or pay half as much for other drivers on the market that outperform it significantly. Still, I'd like to see something not stupid priced in that spec range.
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post #71 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:33 PM
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or pay half as much for other drivers on the market that outperform it significantly. Still, I'd like to see something not stupid priced in that spec range.
"Outperform" is a relative term. It's about as close to a perfect 21" version of the LMS-U on the market at the moment.

I agree it's a bit much though.
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post #72 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 02:36 PM
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"Outperform" is a relative term. It's about as close to a perfect 21" version of the LMS-U on the market at the moment.

I agree it's a bit much though.
Even the LMS-U, which was overpriced, you could get two for less than that. You can almost get a pair of SI24s for that, etc... But yeah, if that was cheaper, I might consider opening up my enclosures a little bit
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post #73 of 192 Old 01-19-2017, 09:11 PM
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I have four of the UH21v2s, and I'm hoping to finish cabinets (2 x 2 dual opposed sealed) for them and get them up and running within a few weeks or so.

I can say that the high price reflects more than just the carbon fiber cones. These feature a huge amount of Nd for very high motor force together with high Xmax and an underhung coil. They also offer a full Al sleeve for Le linearization.

I chose these for my sealed builds because none other except maybe the RF TS3-19 offered as much displacement and small box ULF efficiency, and my setup (in a small living room) allows just enough room for 21s but not 24s. Four IPAL-21s were kind of tied for second place along with 8 Acoustic Elegance AV-15s, but the lack of Xmax was a big drawback on the IPAL. And the AV-15s weren't available after months of waiting for AE to get the parts they needed to make them.

Speaking of Acoustic Elegance, rumor has it they are working to bring a 24" driver to market soon.
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post #74 of 192 Old 01-20-2017, 09:20 AM
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I can say that the high price reflects more than just the carbon fiber cones. These feature a huge amount of Nd for very high motor force together with high Xmax and an underhung coil. They also offer a full Al sleeve for Le linearization.
You've got it all wrong - linearity is not a feature anyone wants in their subwoofer drivers. Only pure SPL matters. I regard my stereo as a complete failure simply because I don't need double ear protection to listen to my system cranked
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post #75 of 192 Old 01-20-2017, 09:29 AM
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You've got it all wrong - linearity is not a feature anyone wants in their subwoofer drivers. Only pure SPL matters. I regard my stereo as a complete failure simply because I don't need double ear protection to listen to my system cranked
Yup.

If my driver can hit .5dB higher on a CEA max burst test, that means your fancy shmancy driver is just overpriced garbage.





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post #76 of 192 Old 01-20-2017, 10:27 AM
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You've got it all wrong - linearity is not a feature anyone wants in their subwoofer drivers. Only pure SPL matters. I regard my stereo as a complete failure simply because I don't need double ear protection to listen to my system cranked
+1

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Yup.

If my driver can hit .5dB higher on a CEA max burst test, that means your fancy shmancy driver is just overpriced garbage.





+1

No one cares what it sounds like anymore.

Look this scored the highest on data bass, lets bow down and worship it....

*yawn*
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post #77 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 09:50 AM
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Out of curiosity would anyone seriously be interested in a group buy of 21 Ipal drivers with a 4ohm impedance? The requirements would be 50 total drivers needed to get it done with a higher impedance. Assume that the driver parameters and performance are the same other than the impedance (might be different slightly but not majorly so.). No changing of soft parts for lower Fs or other custom requests. I know a few people that would be in but that is a lot of drivers and they are expensive even if there was some sort of discount and I do not know that there would be. It would not happen without a serious commitment. I could use 4 myself possibly 8 total but never considered it a real possibility. I'm just trying to get a gauge on any interest in it if any.
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post #78 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Out of curiosity would anyone seriously be interested in a group buy of 21 Ipal drivers with a 4ohm impedance? The requirements would be 50 total drivers needed to get it done with a higher impedance. Assume that the driver parameters and performance are the same other than the impedance (might be different slightly but not majorly so.). No changing of soft parts for lower Fs or other custom requests. I know a few people that would be in but that is a lot of drivers and they are expensive even if there was some sort of discount and I do not know that there would be. It would not happen without a serious commitment. I could use 4 myself possibly 8 total but never considered it a real possibility. I'm just trying to get a gauge on any interest in it if any.
Yes, I'd do 2 or 4 depending on price. Still a long way off :P

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post #79 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 10:02 AM
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Out of curiosity would anyone seriously be interested in a group buy of 21 Ipal drivers with a 4ohm impedance? The requirements would be 50 total drivers needed to get it done with a higher impedance. Assume that the driver parameters and performance are the same other than the impedance (might be different slightly but not majorly so.). No changing of soft parts for lower Fs or other custom requests. I know a few people that would be in but that is a lot of drivers and they are expensive even if there was some sort of discount and I do not know that there would be. It would not happen without a serious commitment. I could use 4 myself possibly 8 total but never considered it a real possibility. I'm just trying to get a gauge on any interest in it if any.
Whew! 50 Ipal drivers?

GLWT
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post #80 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 10:25 AM
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Whew! 50 Ipal drivers?

GLWT
OK so Scott is in for 16...
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post #81 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 10:38 AM
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Like I said, I can't burden this group buy alone.
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post #82 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Out of curiosity would anyone seriously be interested in a group buy of 21 Ipal drivers with a 4ohm impedance? The requirements would be 50 total drivers needed to get it done with a higher impedance. Assume that the driver parameters and performance are the same other than the impedance (might be different slightly but not majorly so.). No changing of soft parts for lower Fs or other custom requests. I know a few people that would be in but that is a lot of drivers and they are expensive even if there was some sort of discount and I do not know that there would be. It would not happen without a serious commitment. I could use 4 myself possibly 8 total but never considered it a real possibility. I'm just trying to get a gauge on any interest in it if any.
I'd take 4.
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post #83 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 01:56 PM
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Why do a group buy for custom drivers? They are designed for IPAL amp modules - isn't it better to try and get one of those instead, and get access to the full feature set of the driver at the same time?

There might be other guys out there as well who have use for ~9,000 watts of sub amplification as well

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post #84 of 192 Old 01-23-2017, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Out of curiosity would anyone seriously be interested in a group buy of 21 Ipal drivers with a 4ohm impedance? The requirements would be 50 total drivers needed to get it done with a higher impedance. Assume that the driver parameters and performance are the same other than the impedance (might be different slightly but not majorly so.). No changing of soft parts for lower Fs or other custom requests. I know a few people that would be in but that is a lot of drivers and they are expensive even if there was some sort of discount and I do not know that there would be. It would not happen without a serious commitment. I could use 4 myself possibly 8 total but never considered it a real possibility. I'm just trying to get a gauge on any interest in it if any.
Hi Josh,

I'd check with Bennett on the parameters. Keeping similar motor strength may require top plate adjustments with the coil, which may or may not be an issue at 50 vs 100 pcs. I had looked at some general T/S parameters that had once been sampled of a 2 Ohm version (1.4 Ohm DCR) with about 75% motor strength. Of course that's still a rather stout ~390 BL^2/Re, which might actually be more useful to some. The reality is that for a coil this large it's likely that any impedance change will result in some changes to the motor strength one way or the other. Personally I don't think any such changes would be significant for most users here on AVS since the linearity vs excursion will remain the same, but expectations should be appropriate.

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post #85 of 192 Old 01-24-2017, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by temps View Post
Why do a group buy for custom drivers? They are designed for IPAL amp modules - isn't it better to try and get one of those instead, and get access to the full feature set of the driver at the same time?

There might be other guys out there as well who have use for ~9,000 watts of sub amplification as well
Most of us around here already have amps. Why buy more? It's not the power or the driver with those it's all the feed back circuit and the dsp. It kind of sucks having a cab or driver an being unable to use any old amp with it. It's also kind of a PITA to setup but that's a story for another time.

Last edited by Ricci; 01-24-2017 at 04:49 AM.
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post #86 of 192 Old 01-24-2017, 04:48 AM
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Hi Josh,

I'd check with Bennett on the parameters. Keeping similar motor strength may require top plate adjustments with the coil, which may or may not be an issue at 50 vs 100 pcs. I had looked at some general T/S parameters that had once been sampled of a 2 Ohm version (1.4 Ohm DCR) with about 75% motor strength. Of course that's still a rather stout ~390 BL^2/Re, which might actually be more useful to some. The reality is that for a coil this large it's likely that any impedance change will result in some changes to the motor strength one way or the other. Personally I don't think any such changes would be significant for most users here on AVS since the linearity vs excursion will remain the same, but expectations should be appropriate.
Hmmm...I didn't expect changes would be that large? More like 10 or 15% was my guess after adjusting the coil wire length, material and gauge to get the amount of turns, wind height and resistance needed. I'll ask Ben but unless there's a real possibility of it happening it's kind of moot anyway.
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post #87 of 192 Old 01-24-2017, 07:32 AM
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Hey All, here is the spec sheet for the 21" Mark is talking about - this is basically a 2Ω 21IPAL. This would be the custom run we're talking about, for the regular 21IPAL 1Ω or 21SW152 in 8Ω or 4Ω you can buy in any quantity from a distributor.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 21_004K-2.pdf (74.1 KB, 94 views)
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post #88 of 192 Old 01-24-2017, 07:51 AM
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Ricci this 2ohm 21IPAL looks to give about the same SPL as the IPAL with less watts in your Skhorn. 11000 vs 9000. 2ohm has a higher knee but not by much. Only other driver that does similar to IPAL 1ohm is 21UHv1 from Funk. But that needs about 14000 for the pair to hit higher SPL and thats not Xmax yet. These are crazy numbers by the way. This is all with the 30.5/31hz tune on your Skhorn. So for me I am out for how much these might cost. BUT if this ends up a group buy and it doesnt go ahead until late this year I may grab a pair. Interesting discussion either way.
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post #89 of 192 Old 01-24-2017, 12:14 PM
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Hey guys. Signed in just because of Ipal group buy discussion. I might get one too if it ever happened. In the meantime, 21DS115 would propably do.
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post #90 of 192 Old 01-24-2017, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
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Hmmm...I didn't expect changes would be that large? More like 10 or 15% was my guess after adjusting the coil wire length, material and gauge to get the amount of turns, wind height and resistance needed. I'll ask Ben but unless there's a real possibility of it happening it's kind of moot anyway.
When you get to VC sizes and windings this large, things aren't as simple. I agree that was more of a drop than I expected, but in many uses, that extra motor isn't too critical. I suspect the loss was due to opening the gap for whatever winding configuration was needed to get the 1.4 Ohm DCR and possibly due to requests from customers regarding desired parameters.

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