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post #1 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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post #2 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 08:24 AM
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Awesome. Thanks for the link. Looking forward to the specs and details on the moving mag 21 and the compression drivers.
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post #3 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 08:45 AM
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That's a lot of 'tech talk'.

Where can you buy these or see prices?
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post #4 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 09:03 AM
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Sounds pretty cool. It will be neat to see what gets built with these.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #5 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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it was just released not available yet can't imagine how clean those diamond compression drivers might be because b&c does not make poor products .
i have 4 21sw152 now .
if they can make that moving mass super clean like they are now with the ability to add mass down low with high excursion they might have just hit the target everyone has been after .
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post #6 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 11:38 AM
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post #7 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 03:46 PM
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Hydrophylic. These drivers will soak water right up, a lot of people like a very 'wet sound'

lmfao You guys do realize everything in the video is total bs right?
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Yay! A Signature!

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post #8 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lynx_TWO View Post
Hydrophylic. These drivers will soak water right up, a lot of people like a very 'wet sound'

lmfao You guys do realize everything in the video is total bs right?
Satire, not for the faint-of-heart.
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post #9 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 03:56 PM
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Sounds like a lot of BS, but then in the "audiophile" world that is necessary.


I have used B&C drivers for almost 20 years and they are as good as any and better than most. They obviously felt, and not without justification, that they needed to "puff up" the brand for the audiophile world. Too bad, but that is the way it is.

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post #10 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 04:07 PM
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Hydrophylic. These drivers will soak water right up, a lot of people like a very 'wet sound'
I really did "lol" at that part. Hilarious!
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post #11 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 05:28 PM
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Was waiting for someone to call it. Haha. Dude needs a raise for straight facing the whole thing.
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post #12 of 183 Old 01-09-2017, 07:54 PM
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Some of the comments here have my raising an eyebrow.
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post #13 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 12:23 AM
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Air motion compression driver... Almost got excited. Although I would be happy if someone would just build a AMT that had a 700hz Xo and could be 40 degree's vertically in a horn.
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post #14 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 12:32 AM
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as long as you dont snap the tensile leads. Of course!!!


bwahaha

THANK YOU!!! for your selfless contribution to the audio world
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post #15 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 11:27 AM
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Was waiting for someone to call it. Haha. Dude needs a raise for straight facing the whole thing.
Dude was a total pro, for sure but it looked like he was starting to crack under pressure.
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post #16 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 01:41 PM
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the idea of drawn neodymium wire is kind of interesting. thermal capability wouldn't be limited by the voice coil (except for inductive heating) and the 'gap' could be as long as desired because the coil windings not metal plates are providing the field. if i understand it correctly, he is describing their m-force in concept, but with a drawn neo wire instead of a slug (to keep down mms).

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post #17 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 04:56 PM
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Dude was a total pro, for sure but it looked like he was starting to crack under pressure.
That grin started to creep through towards the end. Gotta love 4 layers of neo wire wrapped around an iron former. Real men love iron formers...

Shut up and take my money!
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post #18 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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ya i realized after i posted it the water one was the give away well i'm sure if b&c wanted to make a driver to soak up water it would do a good job of it lol
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post #19 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Air motion compression driver... Almost got excited. Although I would be happy if someone would just build a AMT that had a 700hz Xo and could be 40 degree's vertically in a horn.
you mean like the original Heil in the Oskar Kitharas?
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post #20 of 183 Old 01-10-2017, 10:02 PM
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Yes and no. BUT to make things simple yes. I love the sound of an AMT verse any CD I have heard so far. But CD's have their place also. Just wish they would get together and make a baby.
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post #21 of 183 Old 01-12-2017, 01:32 AM
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Yes and no. BUT to make things simple yes. I love the sound of an AMT verse any CD I have heard so far. But CD's have their place also. Just wish they would get together and make a baby.
What is your favorite AMT?
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post #22 of 183 Old 01-12-2017, 03:15 AM
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What is your favorite AMT?
There isnt a favorite. I have heard a few now and I just perfer them to CD's for my own taste. I have heard one that was a DIY build and it was about 18" tall and had a low Xo. Sounded pretty good to me. The next best thing was a BG Neo 8S with TPL-150. That was the best thing I heard for music. I do love directivity for movies though. So if I could have a AMT on a large horn then build a SH I think I would be done building anything else. But I would need to have a large AMT for a lower XO and then I would still be at the limits of the AMT vertically.

So no favorites but my living room speakers will probably be a 3way with a TPL-150 at the top.
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post #23 of 183 Old 01-12-2017, 06:17 AM
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the idea of drawn neodymium wire is kind of interesting. thermal capability wouldn't be limited by the voice coil (except for inductive heating) and the 'gap' could be as long as desired because the coil windings not metal plates are providing the field. if i understand it correctly, he is describing their m-force in concept, but with a drawn neo wire instead of a slug (to keep down mms).
Can't imagine what advantage neo wire would have over a slug. Wire just leaves gaps, lowering average material density, and decreasing total field strength.



I thought the room temp superconductor made it obvious.
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post #24 of 183 Old 01-12-2017, 03:48 PM
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Was waiting for someone to call it. Haha. Dude needs a raise for straight facing the whole thing.
I love hearing Bennett Prescott (the guy from B&C USA talking), fill me in on all of the silliness he comes across at the audio shows we have both attended. Bennett has been around the business well before working with B&C, and has a good sense of humor about its many idiosyncrasies in all ends of the business. Of course the 2 channel audio world does provide much more material to work with. I wonder if we can get Bennett to swing through the forum.
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post #25 of 183 Old 01-12-2017, 04:29 PM
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I love hearing Bennett Prescott (the guy from B&C USA talking), fill me in on all of the silliness he comes across at the audio shows we have both attended. Bennett has been around the business well before working with B&C, and has a good sense of humor about its many idiosyncrasies in all ends of the business. Of course the 2 channel audio world does provide much more material to work with. I wonder if we can get Bennett to swing through the forum.
That would be awesome if you could manage it
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post #26 of 183 Old 01-13-2017, 08:06 AM
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That would be awesome if you could manage it
Yeah he's a good dude. Quite a bit of knowledge.Didn't know he was comedian though.
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post #27 of 183 Old 01-13-2017, 08:47 AM
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I love hearing Bennett Prescott (the guy from B&C USA talking), fill me in on all of the silliness he comes across at the audio shows we have both attended. Bennett has been around the business well before working with B&C, and has a good sense of humor about its many idiosyncrasies in all ends of the business. Of course the 2 channel audio world does provide much more material to work with. I wonder if we can get Bennett to swing through the forum.

I wrote Bennett about this because I was wondering where it all came from. Some had some basis in fact, obscure things that they have tried, but none of it has proven to be marketable.


I went ahead and forwarded this note to him and maybe he'll stop by.

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post #28 of 183 Old 01-13-2017, 08:58 AM
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I thought the room temp superconductor made it obvious.
Hey All, I guess I kept things too deadpan - I figured Cameron's **** eating grin through the whole thing would help! Glad you enjoyed the video, and never fear - B&C isn't about to start attaching a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to products in order to appeal to folks who prefer wizardry and new technology regardless of performance benefit. As far as I know Neodymium isn't ductile anyway.

Of course, there are a few grains of truth in this video. We have worked extensively on an inductive motor design for a midrange, but in most pro and even home applications it seems to have little benefit - but a lot of cost and weight. The same could be said of our research into moving magnet motors, they look great on paper but in reality are hard to optimize to sound good and perform better at audio frequencies than an equivalent cone area (or perhaps even less) using moving coil designs. If you want to spend a lot of money on a compression driver, Be is a lot easier to work with than diamond in any form and offers more concrete benefits - at two orders of magnitude our current diaphragm cost (3-4x finished part cost). We test a lot of technology that never makes it far out of the lab, our engineering team comprises a dozen individuals including physicists, electrical engineers, and mechanical engineers. Of course we aren't perfect, sometimes a technology shows promise but needs a push, but more times than not we've spent hundreds of hours refining designs to use something like AMT technology, but either it needs a lot more work or we have determined that unless a very special application appears (or a customer who is wants that specific thing and will take good volumes) it's not ready for prime time.
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post #29 of 183 Old 01-13-2017, 09:23 AM
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Awesome, thanks for stopping by. AVS is always improved via interaction with industry professionals. I know there are quite a lot of members here who have put B&C drivers to good use.
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post #30 of 183 Old 01-13-2017, 08:47 PM
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Can't imagine what advantage neo wire would have over a slug. Wire just leaves gaps, lowering average material density, and decreasing total field strength.


I thought the room temp superconductor made it obvious.

well, he certainly got me because I thought the idea sounded pretty smart.


here is what I thought he was talking about.


drawn neodymium that is magnetized wire with a N-S in the vertical plane.


that way you are moving the magnet, not the power coil.


around the neo wire magnet could be the power coil where the current from the amp is run through. because that wire is not moving, its mass can be HUGE, so it would not heat up like typical small gauge speaker coil wire. thus power handling could be virtually unlimited. because of the enormous current the power wire could handle, the bl field provided by the neo magnet wire wouldn't have to be that strong. of course you'd need an amp that could work with this kind of arrangement, but I don't think that would be all that difficult to engineer.







now that the idea is in the public domain jan 13 2017, nobody can patent it, unless they have already filed.


and yes, neodymium wire...is a thing:


https://www.americanelements.com/neo...wire-7440-00-8


advantages of this design could be severalfold:


1. no top plate or bottom plate (reduced weight, reduced cost)


2. virtually unlimited thermal handling


3. VERY long coils, excursion and so forth by simply increasing the length of the winding of the neo and the power coil. in some theory, an underhung design with several inches of excursion wouldn't be out of the question.


4. low distortion. the arrangement could be such that the power winding could extend out past the end of the of the neo wire coil by the full length of excursion. the result would be an underhung coil operating in an almost fully linear bl field across the full range of excursion.
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