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post #1 of 18 Old 01-14-2017, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Cam Man's HTM-12 Build

After a happy year with the 88 Special Center (due to architectural necessity you can see in my room thread) and the six Volt-10LX surrounds, I'm building a pair of HTM-12s for my L/R mains. I'll try to impart what might be helpful that I've not seen addressed in other threads.

I ordered with the assembled crossover boards. See photo. As you can see, the workmanship is excellent. But...there is not written guidance about the connections of the green blocks included. The blocks are labeled (hand written), but not adequately descriptive to know precisely what goes where. I did check the DIYSG site assembled crossover page for guidance, but there is nothing there.

@Eric H or Mark please provide for us specific guidance such as: + to CD, - to CD, + to Woofer, - to Woofer, + to Terminal, - to Terminal. Writiten guidance like this included with the shipment would be a big help.


Since I built all the other crossovers, I think I have it figured out. But without that experience, I would not. Correct if I'm wrong, but "IN" means speaker terminal.

What is "HF Pad" seen at bottom left?
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post #2 of 18 Old 01-14-2017, 11:23 AM
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HF is CD
LF is Woofer
IN is terminal

Connect + on the board to + on the component. For example, IN+ goes to Terminal+.

If you post a picture of the bottom I can tell you how to connect the PAD if you want it in.

HTH
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post #3 of 18 Old 01-14-2017, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja00 View Post
HF is CD
LF is Woofer
IN is terminal

Connect + on the board to + on the component. For example, IN+ goes to Terminal+.

If you post a picture of the bottom I can tell you how to connect the PAD if you want it in.

HTH
I also found just what's needed on Matt's site. http://www.hificircuit.com/community...er-thread.609/
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post #4 of 18 Old 01-14-2017, 11:59 AM
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There's a link to the instructions on the main category page.

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post #5 of 18 Old 01-14-2017, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
There's a link to the instructions on the main category page.
Thank you.

Flat pack assembly nice and straightforward...as usual. My glue and clamp skills have come back quickly.

The HF Pad jumper option is a wonderful idea and feature! I doubt I'm going to use it, but it's a great option to have.
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-16-2017, 11:27 AM
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Cam Man, I don't want to alarm you, but there seems to be a problem with all your pics of the build and the finished speakers. You MUST have posted them, because... who would post a thread about new speakers without posting pics of the new speakers? Right..?

Oh...

Well... post pics!
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post #7 of 18 Old 01-24-2017, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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First Impressions

Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post
Cam Man, I don't want to alarm you, but there seems to be a problem with all your pics of the build and the finished speakers. You MUST have posted them, because... who would post a thread about new speakers without posting pics of the new speakers? Right..?

Oh...

Well... post pics!
Hahaha. Yes, I empathize. My apologies, but I zoomed through the build on each of these over two weekends, and they are now fully installed as of two days ago (Sunday 1/22). I did not make any photos of the flat pack build as this is the same for all. If you've seen one, you've seen them all. Since I bought with the assembled crossover, there is nothing to show you there.

Attached are two photos of the final installation with the HTM-12s and 88 Special with their concealing grills removed. I think more important than photos of this are my reflections on performance so far. I have not had time since Sunday to measure the acoustic response of the HTM-12s nor re-accomplish the Audyssey Pro calibration. The speakers the HTM-12s replace are the legacy JBL Synthesis S2C which is also a CD/waveguide design, but a speaker that sounds considerably different from the DIYSG speakers here. None the less, they were/are a very well designed speaker and have very smooth anechoic response which I confirmed. Therefore, there was little for Audyssey to do but eliminate the boundary gain imposed by the "baffle wall" installation. The HTM-12 also has a very smooth response as Matt has shown us. I predicted that since both the S2C and HTM-12 are good designs with similar smooth response, and they are installed in the same manner/location, it is possible that the acoustic response of the HTM-12s could be very good immediately on installation. To my very happy surprise, that is the case. I will soon measure to confirm what I subjectively hear, but read on.

To cut to the chase, I am just blown away so far by the HTM-12 as they perform holistically with the 88 Special as an LCR "team." They sound magnificent together! That is also a clue that very little EQ of the HTM-12s will be needed (as the 88 Special is already EQ'd via Audyssey Pro). The synergy that these three speakers, being from the same "family," provide is just superb! My son and I listened extensively into the night Sunday and last night, and everything is just amazing to experience anew!

I experimented with various crossover points, and found that 80Hz is nominal in my large room. It supports the need for bass management and high output. In the photos you see that there is a compartment below each HTM-12. These were originally intended to contain subs. This turned out to be a bad location, creating a terrible deep node at 43Hz. These compartments are now bass traps. Fortunately, moving the subs to the compartment behind the TV is acoustically friendly. Crossing the HTM-12s and the 88 Special at 80Hz solves this with zero compromise to the perceived performance of the LCRs.

There had been some mention by Matt that the HTM-12 may really strongly benefit from a baffle wall installation. Although not typical, you can see that the HTM-12 fits like a glove in the screen wall and performs pretty much as a baffle wall.

The performance of these three LCRs with the six Volt-10LX surrounds and four subs (and Audyssey Pro room correction) is just stupendous! I can't wait to deploy the AT screen and a movie! When I get the time to measure, I'll get back to you with what I found.
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Last edited by Cam Man; 01-24-2017 at 08:26 AM.
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post #8 of 18 Old 01-24-2017, 10:17 AM
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That is a sweet looking setup! Nice how closely matched you were able to get the height of the waveguides in a challenging environment.

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post #9 of 18 Old 01-24-2017, 12:46 PM
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Looks awesome Cam Man! Very nice setup you have there.
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post #10 of 18 Old 01-24-2017, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
That is a sweet looking setup! Nice how closely matched you were able to get the height of the waveguides in a challenging environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post
Looks awesome Cam Man! Very nice setup you have there.
Thank you, gents.
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post #11 of 18 Old 01-24-2017, 05:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
That is a sweet looking setup! Nice how closely matched you were able to get the height of the waveguides in a challenging environment.
He obviously had good training
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post #12 of 18 Old 01-25-2017, 05:05 PM
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Cam,
I love your install and it looks like you got lucky that the HTMs fit perfectly.

Your feedback is excellent considering you are calibrating the speakers and you have listened to some excellent speakers in the past. Do you consider these an upgrade over the JBLs?

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post #13 of 18 Old 01-27-2017, 01:28 PM
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nice setup, the wife must love it!
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-28-2017, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Cam,
I love your install and it looks like you got lucky that the HTMs fit perfectly.

Your feedback is excellent considering you are calibrating the speakers and you have listened to some excellent speakers in the past. Do you consider these an upgrade over the JBLs?
The HTMs were actually about an inch too tall for the compartment. Sunday was spent excavating out the existing floor and lowering. Yes, very big upgrade over the JBLs! That's not to say that the HTMs are a superior speaker to the S2C, but superior in my room. It is a combination of differences in directivity index and dispersion control...all having a given result with the throw distance (about 15'). The S2Cs clearly are not nominal for my room...I can now say. Where would the S2Cs perform "better"? In a room with a shorter throw. Their lower directivity but very wide horizontal dispersion (d'appolito/MTM design and wide horn/waveguide aspect ratio) would be much better for a shorter throw setup. In fact, they might be superior to the HTMs in a shorter throw (around 12') with maybe a three seat row covered very smoothly. Very little toeing would be necessary; less toeing than a DIYSG design in a throw of that or less distance (just a theory/guess from some experience with them now).

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nice setup, the wife must love it!
I am blessed on that front. She has been out of town all week while the HTMs were being placed. She returned noticing nothing visually. This morning I pulled a grill to show her an HTM. She was admirably impressed with how big they are...and that something so "imposing" could be hiding back there.
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post #15 of 18 Old 01-28-2017, 11:41 PM
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nice rig...and write-up.

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post #16 of 18 Old 02-17-2017, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Back for an Update

I've measured a bit and discovered that they are very admirably smooth (close mic). The close mic measurement showed them -3dB at 80Hz...which is ideal for a bass management system! Acoustic measurements averaged in listening area reveal that my screen wall installation imposes the need for a modest amount of EQ work. That is only in the region of below about 175Hz (boundary gain acoustic influence). The right one has more wall around it than the left, so it is a bit tubby in that region, but not terrible. Unfortunately, I can't get my aging AVC to communicate with the Audyssey Pro utility in my laptop any more, so an AVC upgrade is going to have to come. Whether that will be an Audyssey or DiracLive capable unit is up in the air. I will wait on that until I see the MultEQ Editor mobile app that is coming out next month.

I've been asked for an updated subjective impression. I find the HTM-12 superb. I would call it capable of very refined nuance, yet brute force impact. Very smooth and transparent, yet a sleeping giant on dynamics. Dialogue and vocals are excellent. I am also very impressed with its smooth coverage/dispersion.

We had our adult kids over for dinner the other night, and we watched the Eagles Melbourne Farewell concert BD for the first time in a long time. We ran in PCM stereo with Dolby Surround post processing rather than 5.1 which kept more sound up on the LCRs. Incredible! Where these type of speakers really shine on that type of material is in dynamic attack; snare drum strikes, etc.. Even a kick drum has spectral content well above 60Hz. If speakers can't faithfully recreate that attack, then the impact of the kick drum is not recreated as well.

By the way...effortless performance at Reference level, even with 30 guests in the room (Super Bowl half time). Loud without harshness. 150wpc separate amp.

I highly endorse the HTM-12, although room size and throw distance should dictate whether HTM-12 or HTM-10.

Last edited by Cam Man; 02-17-2017 at 07:51 AM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 02-18-2017, 08:40 AM
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Great feedback.

I can't remember. Do you run a separate music only system?

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post #18 of 18 Old 02-19-2017, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Great feedback.

I can't remember. Do you run a separate music only system?
No. All multi-channel from same system.
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