Have two TD15M, need HF drivers to mate - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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There's going cheap and there's having a budget and getting the best bang for the buck. Loved the Volt, but they add several hundred to the budget. In the future a definite maybe when I get more bux to spend on audio.

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Old 05-19-2017, 09:45 AM
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Just my opinion, but mids are the most important range. Not a good area to get cheap.
While I agree its the most important range, its also one of the easiest bandwidths to reproduce if restricting the bandwidth to say 400-1500hz. Lots of drivers can do this easily at high fidelity. The bass and treble ranges can actually present bigger challenges despite being less important. Though I would be interested to hear more of your thoughts on this, if you disagree.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/ Kinda old, but interesting.

Something to consider is the horizontal dispersion angle of both drivers at XO 1kHz. The TPL is speced 80° and I believe the TD15M is similar due to beaming with its phase plug and curveliniar cone profile. A midrange driver would be much wider compared to the TPL150H.

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Old 05-19-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
While I agree its the most important range, its also one of the easiest bandwidths to reproduce if restricting the bandwidth to say 400-1500hz. Lots of drivers can do this easily at high fidelity. The bass and treble ranges can actually present bigger challenges despite being less important. Though I would be interested to hear more of your thoughts on this, if you disagree.
We basically agree except I'd shoot for higher bandwidth. The TD shouldn't lack anything at 400 but some 15" drivers begin to fall apart above 250-300Hz. I used the AC 30130 (AMT) in a larger horn and ended up raising the XO to 2400...and, IIRC, the 30130 has a little more radiating area than the 150. (However, to me, 1" exit CDs on smallish horns can sound strained at 1500.)

If this were my system, I'd extend bandwidth on the top end while trying to maintain good performance on the low end; then optimize XO points in light of measurements (distortion etc).
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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How wide a bandwidth would you recommend? Some of the drivers I linked went from mid hundreds to 5kHz or more.

Audax PR170M0 curves look good between 400Hz - 1.6kHz. What is the dispersion/beaming angle of the Audax at the upper XO?

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Old 05-20-2017, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
Midrange drivers that looked interesting and weren't the most expensive driver in the stack:

B&C 6PEV13 6-1/2" (don't like rolled surround) phase plug looks good with TD
PRV Audio 8MR500-PhP-4 8" (better surround) phase plug looks good with TD
Audax PR170M0 6.5" (flat surround for cone breakup reduction)
Beyma 6M180 6.5" (flat surround)
BG Neo10 Planar (excellent range, but ~10dB less SPL)
Would the last driver on your list, (the Neo10), work from a sensitivity standpoint? If you had a larger budget, I wonder how the better drivers from Scan Speak and Acuton would work? The Neo10 would certainly give you a sweet sound quality mated with the TPL-150 and the TD15M.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Basic out of pocket cost for new components:

2-way (2)xTPL150H + one miniDSP 2x4 costs $935

The 3-way with (2)xTPL150H + (2)xAudax PR170M0 6.5"+(2)x miniDSP 2x4 adds some complexity and cost. $1,240

2-way (2)xJBL2452H-SL 4" x 1.5" CD + (2)xSEOS 24 + one miniDSP 2x4 is $1369. I'd also need a small can of aquaplase coating I can carefully brush on to aquaplase the stock Ti phrams to DIY SL phragms.

2xBG Neo 10 add $200 to the 3-way making it more expensive than the CD/horn build. It also loses 10dB of sensitivity to the TPL150H and 5dB to the TD15M. Probably amazing for vocals the 250Hz - 5kHz range.

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Old 05-20-2017, 06:51 AM
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Are the 52H-SL an option just in case you upgrade the diaphragms?

I like the Beyma driver a lot myself. I have heard the 8s is better than the 10Neo from others on the DIY audio forum. I cant say for myself for sure. BUT I might try and build a surround with the BG 8 or possibly 6m180 and TPL-75.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:26 AM
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Definitely go for a 3-way, but you want to rethink your 1khz rule, you need to be looking at 1200hz. They wont go lower, by the time you get them in a box and measure them the natural rolloff will be at about 1200hz or so.

The TPL-150H is pretty much the best tweeter I have ever heard. I have 7 of them all around me making up my 7 channel sound bed. Expensive, but I will pretty much never be using any other tweeter in my future builds. The sound is unique, nothing beats the transient speeds of ribbons.

My towers are crossing at 1800hz to 12" mids, but those are the first speakers I built with the TPL's, I have since made my rear speakers which are MTM's with Faital 8" woofers, those are crossing at 1200hz and I feel like that's a great xover point. They integrated well with the 8's and required very little crossover parts since 1200hz followed very closely to the TPL's natural roll off. The towers crossing at 1800 are crossing to a 12" Beyma 12P80Ndv2 driver, which is an utterly awesome mid, though its a 12, and at 1800hz I would like to take a little load off the driver and take it down to 1200 in order to reduce some beaming and get a better directivity match.

At the time I built those towers I was following what others were saying about crossing the TPL higher, but the rear MTM's I build can take an utter beating, I have pounded them at reference level and they don't break a sweat and still remained very composed.

My builds are in my sig if you are interested.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | OZTS Majestic 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Rotel RMB-1555B | DIY Javelin Audio TPL-150 L/C/R | DIY Faital MTM TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Dolby Atmos MKII Modules | DIY Quad 18" Subs 30cf Net
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Are the 52H-SL an option just in case you upgrade the diaphragms?

I like the Beyma driver a lot myself. I have heard the 8s is better than the 10Neo from others on the DIY audio forum. I cant say for myself for sure. BUT I might try and build a surround with the BG 8 or possibly 6m180 and TPL-75.
If I ever went the CD route I would definitely want to get Be phragms. I figured I could live with the SL until I could afford the upgrade in a year. As much fun as that system would be, I'd have the cops at my door and not in a good way. I need a house on acreage with plenty of room from the nearest neighbor for it to work out lol. Can you still get Neo 8s?

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Definitely go for a 3-way, but you want to rethink your 1khz rule, you need to be looking at 1200hz. They wont go lower, by the time you get them in a box and measure them the natural rolloff will be at about 1200hz or so.

The TPL-150H is pretty much the best tweeter I have ever heard. I have 7 of them all around me making up my 7 channel sound bed. Expensive, but I will pretty much never be using any other tweeter in my future builds. The sound is unique, nothing beats the transient speeds of ribbons.

My towers are crossing at 1800hz to 12" mids, but those are the first speakers I built with the TPL's, I have since made my rear speakers which are MTM's with Faital 8" woofers, those are crossing at 1200hz and I feel like that's a great xover point. They integrated well with the 8's and required very little crossover parts since 1200hz followed very closely to the TPL's natural roll off. The towers crossing at 1800 are crossing to a 12" Beyma 12P80Ndv2 driver, which is an utterly awesome mid, though its a 12, and at 1800hz I would like to take a little load off the driver and take it down to 1200 in order to reduce some beaming and get a better directivity match.

At the time I built those towers I was following what others were saying about crossing the TPL higher, but the rear MTM's I build can take an utter beating, I have pounded them at reference level and they don't break a sweat and still remained very composed.

My builds are in my sig if you are interested.
Beyma 6M180 & 6M190 have pretty low distortion curves between 500Hz & 1.5kHz. I was also looking at the TPL75 for future surrounds. Was thinking of mating them with AE TD10M as a ported 2-way. BTW I love how you configured your center speaker with the same drivers as the LR channels.

Last edited by Steve Hanna; 05-20-2017 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
If I ever went the CD route I would definitely want to get Be phragms. I figured I could live with the SL until I could afford the upgrade in a year. As much fun as that system would be, I'd have the cops at my door and not in a good way. I need a house on acreage with plenty of room from the nearest neighbor for it to work out lol. Can you still get Neo 8s?


Beyma 6M180 & 6M190 have pretty low distortion curves between 500Hz & 1.5kHz. I was also looking at the TPL75 for future surrounds. Was thinking of mating them with AE TD10M as a ported 2-way. BTW I love how you configured your center speaker with the same drivers as the LR channels.
https://www.parts-express.com/bohlen...ducer--264-752
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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What are the formulas to calculate the driver beaming dispersion angle and frequency?
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:16 AM
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Measure the source diameter, then divide speed of sound 344 m/s with that diameter for a -6 dB /90 degree dispersion and you’ll be in the ball park for when the driver starts to beam.

On my TD12 M from AE it is 242 mm = 0,242 m cone diameter inside the surround. For a -6 dB / 90 degree dispersion: 344 / 0,242 gives about 1421 Hz for when beaming starts.

As the Beyma TPL 150H should have an 80 degree horizontal dispersion for – 6dB, I will try with a cross over around 1550 Hz together with the TD12M. I don't know the actual cone diameter on TD15 M, I measured 303 mm on my SPB 15 from AE. If it is the same on TD 15 M, somewhere around 1240 Hz could be suitable cross over frequency to the TPL 150H for 80 degrees. A bit low probably for the TPL 150H ? A 10" or 12" driver could have been a better pairing with the TPL 150H cross over wise but if you alredy have the TD15 M, I wouldn't exchange it.
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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The main concern with my TPL150H + TD15M 2-way isn't a beaming issue at my proposed 1kHz/24dB/oct XO point. (I could go as steep as 48dB/oct with the miniDSP.) It's the 1kHz cone breakup modes of the TD15M and increased distortion of the TPL150H at full output levels. I know I need to go 3-way to perfect this speaker project. Liking the Beyma 6M180/190 best so far. Not sure how the dispersion angles at 1.2-1.6kHz will mesh between the 6.5" mid and TPL.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the sim plots for my TD15M enclosures. Red slot vent 100L 45Hz FB. Green sealed 85L.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:20 PM
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Wow this 15 likes large cabinets. I thought the -3db would be closer to the tune. Sounds like my 15Mi100's I have. They are going in 115l 45hz tune to get the -3db close to 45hz
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I added the cone displacement curves. I try to max it out without exceeding xmax at PE. Tuning it lower just makes the extension slope down. This driver is mainly for the chest thumping Sub will shake the house.
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Old Yesterday, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Some midrange driver candidates:
Need to cover ~400Hz to ~1.5kHz or so at the same low distortion and dynamic levels as TD15M and TPL150H (~120dB SPL) and as cleanly as them.

In no particular order of preference:

B&C 6PEV13 6-1/2"

PRV Audio 8MR500-PhP-4 8"

Audax PR170M0 6.5"

Beyma 6M180 6.5"

Beyma 6MI90 6.5"

FaitalPRO M6N8 6"

FaitalPRO W6N8-120 6"

FaitalPRO 6PR150 6"

I've also gotta get maximum bang for the buck, so not much over $100 ea.

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Old Yesterday, 03:34 PM
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I would go with Beyma 180 myself. I am always on a budget. BUT I would also sacrifice more money to compare another driver to see which I like by my ears. Some dont like BC mids and some do. Really need to listen to these drivers before saying you prefer one over the other.
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Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The Beyma 190 is the same driver in an aluminum cast frame.

I get what you're saying. It's hard to pick one from just the specs and a few reviews.

That 8" PRV intrigues me, but the Beyma and Audax are probably safer bets.

This is why I'm going to build these in W-M-T modules. Only way to swap them in and out.

I'm hoping some people here with experience on some of these drivers or manufacturers can give valuable input to steer me away from any bad or mediocre drivers.
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Old Yesterday, 06:34 PM
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I mentioned Beyma for my choice because everyone I have had I have been happy with. AND I will have to look at price but I will probably end up with the 6 180/190 or 8" version for my surrounds.
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Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Found a deal on a pair of 6M190 for $200 in the US.
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