Have two TD15M, need HF drivers to mate - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 01:48 AM
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They dont come with blocking caps. I think I also used 30uF caps on mine. Will have to look to make sure.
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post #212 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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To sum it up: AE TD15M + B&C 6PEV13 + Beyma TPL150H
These will all be able to hit 120dB continuous and stay within the Pe limitations. There may be some compression losses if the program material is too compressed and played at full power. This should be a very dynamic, transparent and enjoyable combination once I get the enclosures built and dial in the active DSP XO.

I'm planning on using bracing, mass and CLD on the various aspects of my enclosure build.

Thanx everyone.
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post #213 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
"Look elsewhere. These aren't the mid drivers you seek."

I should be getting my TPL150H pair and miniDSP 2x4 tomorrow. Do the TPLs come with blocking capacitors installed? If not, what size do I need. Don't want to hook them up to anything that can go thump. (miniDSP)
As others mentioned, no the TPL 150H doesn't come with protective capacitor. I bought polypropylene ones: 47 micro Farads +/- 5%. The capacitor is quite large Ø46 x 107 mm. The value seemed to be about right considering around 5 ohm for the TPL 150H and my probable crossover frequency somewhere 1300-1550 Hz.

A handy good old chart / Technical Letter from good old Altec Lansing when searching for suitable capacitor value: http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet...ers/TL_205.pdf
(Check the lower, supplementary diagram)
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post #214 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanx Adhoc1. That chart is very useful.

Any of these brands better or any others? Solen, Jantzen Audio or Audyn Cap?

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post #215 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 01:18 PM
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I will not offer any opinion about those brands, I used another manufacturer brand. Other people might chime in.

I think it's a good idea to go for constrained layer damping with your cabinet. I used it for the baffle and side walls in my boxes, 2x19 mm and 19+22 mm with 0,8 mm thick layer of visco elastic goo in the middle. The change in sound was quite dramatic when free hanging and tapped with hammer, much less ringing. (Compared 1x19 mm and 2x19 mm glued together with common white glue (hardening glue) versus 2x19 mm with visco elastic goo, an MS polymer from Loctite. Size was about 1x0,2m pieces). I haven't got an accelerometer for measuring but the audible change is very obvious to the better. A guy at another forum was more "scientific" in his test of CLD: http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeak...rs-pt-2-page-2

For the visco elastic layer, go for a thin layer and suitable shear strength around 1,1 MPa / 145 lbs/in² for wood / MDF / particle board. But ... do not use it as construction glue at corner joints, use regular construction glue there.
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post #216 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I already have 19mm MDF and 19mm veneered maple plywood. I'd like to use polyurethane rubber between them as the elastomer. Haven't figured out the various Durometer softness ratings and thickness required for maximum effect. I'm sure there's some math involved lol. I'm also going to use dowel bracing in the midbass cab. Gluing the elastomer to the inside with a 1/4" cap constraining layer might be even more effective than between the thicker panels.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#sorbothane/=17zgh1r
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post #217 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 03:24 PM
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post #218 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes it is, but it is the best at what it does. I'll build the inner enclosure first as test cabs. Then I'll build the outer walls around it and the constraining layer. The baffle will be the thickest and have at least 2 constraining layers with the driver mounting isolated from the outer face. The 12 outer edges will be square stock that will get a round over. The maple veneer faces and edges should take a wood finish well.
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post #219 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
Yes it is, but it is the best at what it does. I'll build the inner enclosure first as test cabs. Then I'll build the outer walls around it and the constraining layer. The baffle will be the thickest and have at least 2 constraining layers with the driver mounting isolated from the outer face. The 12 outer edges will be square stock that will get a round over. The maple veneer faces and edges should take a wood finish well.
Got any links to previous builds you have done?

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post #220 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Nothing I've ever posted. When I get all the parts I'll start a build thread for this project. This thread was mainly for my information and education.

jshadzi has been incorporating CLD in his recent builds at parts express forum (JavadS) with good success.

I've been thinking about CLD for awhile, but thought all you had to do was use some green glue. This thread has tons of info and links that I'm still processing to understand how to properly implement the science.

I don't have the luxury of a shop. I have to work outside on sawhorses. Shade tree carpenter lol.
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post #221 of 253 Old 06-08-2017, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Got the TPL150H drivers and they survived their journey from Spain via New Jersey. The thin Styrofoam insert was destroyed, but it did its job and the cast aluminum waveguides were in perfect condition. It rings like a bell however. Will need elastomer damping material applied to the back side.
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post #222 of 253 Old 06-09-2017, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
There is a thread around here using the TD6. Two of them under a seos 12 as surrounds. The impressions were mediocre. I think the biggest issue was that more low end was expected outta them, but they are not really meant to do bass well.
Is the TD6M still available?
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post #223 of 253 Old 06-09-2017, 06:14 AM
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John stated a few weeks ago that the TD6M (and TD8M) are available, although not in the web store.
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post #224 of 253 Old 06-09-2017, 06:35 AM
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Have two TD15M, need HF drivers to mate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
Got the TPL150H drivers and they survived their journey from Spain via New Jersey. The thin Styrofoam insert was destroyed, but it did its job and the cast aluminum waveguides were in perfect condition. It rings like a bell however. Will need elastomer damping material applied to the back side.


Cool

They dont seem to ring or resonate when in a box and 8 bolts securing the tpl in place, I actually tested this after I read your post by knocking on my horns on both my designs and nothing at all happened, hurt my knuckles

Still worth doing though for peace it mind. I will do it on my build and also go back and do my other 5.

Interested to see your tpl measurements. Curious to see your >10k rolloff.

I am also wondering if that tiny piece of mesh on the front inside the horn is killing any of the very high freq response... what do you reckon?

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post #225 of 253 Old 06-09-2017, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Javs: looks like your waveguides are already constrained from being bolted into a cabinet. You probably don't need to do anything different. Mine are going to be unenclosed so I'll have to put something dark on the backside so it blends in and looks good. Javad used 3M Strip caulking. Looks like it will work for me. He's got a YouTube video using it on his aluminum horns.

I'm not sure how that mesh affects the HF roll off. I'll leave it on so my cats can't poke their little paws in the AMT diaphragm. My hearing drops out at 10kHz and 14kHz so I might not notice.

I've got the last parts ordered. The mids, 2nd miniDSP and two 47uf blocking caps. Now I've got to start making sawdust.

Emailed John over a week ago. He acknowledged he got them, but he is just too slammed to respond in detail. Hopefully next year we can do some business as I contemplate the next phase of my 5.1 build.

Gotta work on the house right now, but will get this done before the fall rains shut down my workshop.
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post #226 of 253 Old 06-11-2017, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I wonder how large of a horn it will take for my B&C 6PEV13 6.5" 600-1200Hz 80 degree H dispersion?
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post #227 of 253 Old 06-11-2017, 07:43 PM
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Probably about 2ft. Depends on a few things.

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post #228 of 253 Old 06-11-2017, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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2ft wide isn't bad. How deep? Funny how this sickness gets started lol.
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post #229 of 253 Old 06-17-2017, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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All 6 drivers passed their low power tests. Used the dc blocking cap with the TPL150H to be safe. Can't wait until I get the cabs built and listen to them at high power. Got both miniDSP units and the 2x4 advanced app installed.
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post #230 of 253 Old 06-19-2017, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
I wonder how large of a horn it will take for my B&C 6PEV13 6.5" 600-1200Hz 80 degree H dispersion?
What mid horn did you decide on? Is there an existing mid horn that will accommodate your B&C 6PEV13? Or are you going to design your own and have it made on a CNC?
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post #231 of 253 Old 06-19-2017, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Haven't decided yet. Lots of theory and designs to understand first.
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post #232 of 253 Old 06-19-2017, 06:28 AM
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I picked up some spray on rubber stalker this weekend. It's the kind used to stop roof leaks. It might be a good alternative to the strip caulk. I took two pieces of 1x3 cut from the same stick about a foot long. I sprayer one with a good thick coat on one side. The board with the rubber definitely thudded rather than ring. It might look nicer on the back of those horns.
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post #233 of 253 Old 06-19-2017, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Is it the same one that they used to reseal a boat they shot a cannon through and took it out on a lake?
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post #234 of 253 Old 06-19-2017, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
Is it the same one that they used to reseal a boat they shot a cannon through and took it out on a lake?
Lol no. I went and checked on my little experiment and the rubber dries pretty hard. I did the knock test and it was a little more like a thud but not great. Oh well. :-(
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post #235 of 253 Old 06-20-2017, 09:55 AM
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Be sure and take the back cup and insulation off of the TPL150H and place in an oversized compartment with heavy fill. Will lower the distortion by a lot. I am crossing my TPL150H's over at 1,200 to TD12M's. Like the sound of these speakers so much, that I no longer think about upgrades.
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My Baffle wall LCR build: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-tpl-150h.html
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post #236 of 253 Old 06-20-2017, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I've heard this.before. I've got two 57uf dc blocking caps. It's horn loaded and was engineered with that in mind. How will that mod affect the loading on the horn side of the diaphragm?
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post #237 of 253 Old 06-22-2017, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
No. Not planning on it.

My last build with the TPL-150H I did indeed make a chamber for the units and removed the backplate and filled it with absorbing material lining the walls and also poly stuffing inside.

For this one as the name of the game is to be relatively simple in the box build internally and maximise the volume the LF woofers have to work with. Making an internal chamber for the TPL will reduce that and not what I want for a speaker this size. I will do some experimentation with altering the lining materials inside the backplate. From what I have read the backplate distortion has actually come from the plastic plate resonating at certain frequencies, so I might see how I go deadening the rear plate by adding bitumen deadening sheeting to the outside of the unit plate and even the horn and filling the inside of the plate with different types of acoustic absorption material.

The felt pad inside the backplate at the moment is pretty crappy, there is no way that would totally stop any reflections internally so at the very least increasing dramatically the material inside the plate and even stuffing it with some poly may improve quite a bit the distortion figures. I also read that some of this distortion people speak of actually happens lower in the freq range below the ~1800hz crossover freq a lot of people are using. One of the few reasons people now cross it over higher.
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11th April 2009, 08:23 AM #15 StigErik
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Removing the rear cover is safe and easy. Just remove the four screws, and lift the cover off. To fully modify the driver to become dipole, you will have to cut away the read damper pad as well. This is not very tricky either. Use a sharp knife to cut between the pad and the magnet. Be aware that the magnets are very strong.

Whatever you do, make sure you don't loose any magnetic things like screws into the driver, as these will destroy the driver! The older TPL150 did not have a wire mesh grille in front, the latter ones do have this for protection. On the rear side there is no grille, so if you take off the rear damper, you might consider installing a wire mesh grille here as well.
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Hi Derek
Glad you liked the TPL too! It really shines open-backed.

This dipole is not my first speaker using the TPL. I made a 2-1/2 way with two Beyma 12P1000nd and passive XO, 98 dB sensitivity. It was magic driven by an Audio Note 300B amp... but not as good as this dipole is already in its very early stage of development.

Currently I'm without a high-end DAC, using a RME Fireface 800 now. Its not bad, but not the last word in resolution. In a couple of week I hopefully will receive a DAD AX-24.

Love your speakers by the way, have heard one of them in Bergen last year. Great stuff.
Here's the thread on StigErik's open baffle project using TPL150.
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post #238 of 253 Old 06-22-2017, 04:25 PM
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Here's the thread on StigErik's open baffle project using TPL150.
Thanks but I am not interested in open baffle. I have tested my TPL's in open baffle and didnt like them as much as with the wave guides, they are a little more airy but the response suffers a lot. With the wave guides they dont interact with the room and you get a super clear sound from them. I prefer that.

When we talk about removing the back plate on the TPL we talk about making a larger enclosure sealed for the TPL and the rear wave has more room to breathe and doesn't interact nearly as much. It lowers distortion, far as I can tell only does this under 1khz though, when I comare my rears (back plate on) to my towers (no back plate) distortion graphs, its the reason why this time I am going with an even larger cabinet and separating it completely from the other modules.

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post #239 of 253 Old 06-22-2017, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Now we know what the screen is for.

So you don't hear or measure any improvement from 1.2kHz on up between factory stock or removing the back plate into a larger well damped closed cabinet?

I don't want to modify them unless there is a clear advantage.
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post #240 of 253 Old 06-22-2017, 05:49 PM
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Open baffle should interact with the room less except the rear wave. Open baffle is very very difficult to do cprrectly. Most examples out there are just made open baffle under the assumption it must be better when in fact they've made it worse.

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