Have two TD15M, need HF drivers to mate - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 142 Old 02-02-2017, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Have two TD15M, need HF drivers to mate

I've had these TD15M drivers for a decade and a half. I bought them from Lambda Acoustics when Nick McKinney was still around.

I originally planned to use these in a 3-way with PHL 1660 mid driver and a Raven ribbon driver. Now PHL are hard to get and the Raven ribbon is crazy expensive. I would consider the PHL with another less expensive ribbon.

2-way looks very attractive with the right HF driver. I like the looks of Beyma TPL-150H ribbon in a wave guide/ horn.

Also the SEOS15 + DNA 360 looks intriguing, but I don't want high dynamics to win at the expense of fine low level details.Question: How is the SQ of compression driver/ horn system compared to direct radiating driver systems? I love the SQ of the B&W 800 series and I don't want any PA or horn sounding SQ from my DIY builds or what's the point. I want it to be accurate, dynamic and musical.I have two Seismic 8196 (aka Aura 1808) 18" sub drivers I'll be using from 15-60Hz.I've read a bunch of threads on the subject and bookmarked several of them for further reference, but more links to info are welcome.
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post #2 of 142 Old 02-02-2017, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I want to use a BR enclosure for the TD15M. 140 liters, Vb 40Hz, slotted port. The sim curves look great, but shows nasty vent resonance's in the passband. Only sealed or passive radiator show no resonance like ports. How do you deal with this issue in ported boxes?

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post #3 of 142 Old 02-02-2017, 10:51 PM
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Hi Steve,

I'm partial to waveguide sound, myself (though I hate the sound of exponential horns). Ribbons can be nice but don't play as well with the room acoustics (waveguides give directivity in a useful pattern, ribbons tend to be beamy in the vertical axes).

One thing you might try without much real expenditure is get a couple of the Tymphany compression drivers (http://www.parts-express.com/peerles...-ohm--264-1420) and a couple of the QSC-clone waveguides that Parts Express is blowing out (http://www.parts-express.com/prv-aud...bolt--294-2892). Both are really good examples of the breed, and it would only cost about $45 per channel. Make SURE that your crossover applies "Controlled Directivity EQ" (a ~9dB rise in response starting around 3kHz going to 20kHz, CD waveguides are different animals than beamy expo horns). If you like it you won't be bad off staying with these components, or if you want to spend more money to maybe get better results you could go to Beryllium diaphragm drivers and/or a SEOS horn. I ran a set of TD15M with SEOS15 horns (and the DE250 drivers then), was a pretty sweet, detailed sounding setup once I got the crossover and EQ worked out.

One thing to watch for however direction you go -- you're going to have a pretty high sensitivity speaker, so make sure that the power amp or integrated or receiver is nice and quiet. With a number of them you may find yourself bothered by or at least influenced by hiss.

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post #4 of 142 Old 02-02-2017, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
I want to use a BR enclosure for the TD15M. 140 liters, Vb 40Hz, slotted port. The sim curves look great, but shows nasty vent resonance's in the passband. Only sealed or passive radiator show no resonance like ports. How do you deal with this issue in opted boxes?
One way it to use smaller ports of not too much length, might be difficult if you plan to play loud though. Or put a little damping at the end of the port if it has to be long (the damping will cut down the bass effect of porting, though, too). I've been using wide but short-height shelf ports lately, no midrange resonance issues so far. Though I'm sure it can still happen.
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post #5 of 142 Old 02-03-2017, 06:16 AM
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I'd like to see where this goes...
I was looking at pairing the TD15m and TPL-150h together, but was advised to look at 10" drivers to mate with that tweeter for a better directivity match....


Still, I cant help but think this is a nice pairing (I have seen it suggested many times, but no builds)
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post #6 of 142 Old 02-03-2017, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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With a 500g 18" PR, it works perfectly except the PR would have to go on the back and then I would have less placement options. I'd prefer just to use a front slot port as that looks the best.

Eventually I'm going to build a center and both surrounds with the same HF and mid-bass drivers. I want a 5.1 system or 7.2 running 5.2 for music. Stereo for now.

I could use a passive xover for the TD15M, but not sure how I'd go passive for the HF drivers. Could go active or even digital active so I can have both frequency and phase control albeit at a higher cost and complexity. Would need a HP capacitor for the HF driver to protect it.

Since I already have the TD15Ms, I'll have to find a 2-way solution with these mid-bass drivers. Minimum x-over point will have to be 1kHz.


CD/horn or ribbon/wave guide. Which one reigns supreme with the best sound quality?
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post #7 of 142 Old 02-03-2017, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Links for the crossovers? Beyma TPL-150H & SEOS15 + DNA 360? I'm not sure how good the Harris Tech xover pro software is. Their Bass Box 6 is good for LF work.

I'm not sure how much of an issue the TD15M dispersion beaming will be at 1-1.5kHZ Never found a definitive answer in my searches.
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post #8 of 142 Old 02-03-2017, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hanna View Post
I've had these TD15M drivers for a decade and a half. I bought them from Lambda Acoustics when Nick McKinney was still around.


Also the SEOS15 + DNA 360 looks intriguing, but I don't want high dynamics to win at the expense of fine low level details.e.
I think bwaslo has so many great designs he can't remember them all.

http://www.hificircuit.com/community...th-dna360.158/

I have the Poor Man's version, the Cheap Thrill which is essentially the same design but using a $50 close-out 15" pro woofer. The mid range is phenomenal and I've always wanted to upgrade my woofers to the TD15M's.

You're living out my dream, Steve.
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post #9 of 142 Old 02-04-2017, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I got mine back when they first came out. I paid $200+ ea. Figuring inflation I paid about what they cost now. The prices are reasonable for a high-end pro driver. Can't wait to get them in some cabs so I can hear them for the first time.
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post #10 of 142 Old 02-04-2017, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I did an image search for Beyma TPL-150H crossovers and got a few schematics. I don't know all the x-over frequencies or the slopes, but it's a start.

We already have the link to the TD15M + SEOS15.
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post #11 of 142 Old 02-04-2017, 06:38 PM
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Some say it sounds fine crossed at 1500hz and some say they prefer to have it at 2000hz. SO definitely will need to have a listening session and see what you prefer.
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post #12 of 142 Old 02-04-2017, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I've always liked B&W's tweeter on top builds. I'm planning on building a cabinet for just the TD15M with the tweeter/horn on top. Wife is OK with that Hoping to get excellent sound rivaling B&W but for significantly less $$$$$.

The lower limits of the HF driver will be more of a concern than the beaming of the TD15M I think.

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post #13 of 142 Old 02-04-2017, 07:32 PM
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And sorry I didnt clearly state this but I was talking mainly about the TPL-150. CD's are not in the same league for me as AMT's. I much prefer the TPL over any CD I have heard. BUT Thats just my own opinion.

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post #14 of 142 Old 02-05-2017, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for clarefying that. I would think the TPL-150H sounds better than inexpensive CDs, but sometimes the whole system is greater than the sum of the parts. I don't want to make that asumption until I have more people who have heard both and can verify that asumption.

Several have judged the SEOS systems to equal the clarity of electrostatic speakers. I've listened to those and can't imagine anything better. If the TPL-150H trumps that, I'm all in. The TPL-150H also looks better and integrates into the decor easier.
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post #15 of 142 Old 02-05-2017, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks for clarefying that. I would think the TPL-150H sounds better than inexpensive CDs, but sometimes the whole system is greater than the sum of the parts. I don't want to make that asumption until I have more people who have heard both and can verify that asumption.

Several have judged the SEOS systems to equal the clarity of electrostatic speakers. I've listened to those and can't imagine anything better. If the TPL-150H trumps that, I'm all in. The TPL-150H also looks better and integrates into the decor easier.
The TPL-150 on its corresponding waveguide sounds absolutely marvelous. The only compression drivers that could compete in terms of clarity, and detail are in my opinion the big Be Radians, or JBL's with Be diaphragms. The TPL-150 also has good sensitivity, and directivity with its waveguide. Something you won't find in any other ribbons. I had a brief listening session with a Radian 950BePB based speaker and it was just as good, but cost much more. Plus I didn't get to spend more than about 15 minutes with it, if that.
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post #17 of 142 Old 02-05-2017, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going with a 2-way. If it weren't for these amazing drivers that make this possible, I'd have to go with the more complex 3-way. I follow the KISS philosophy whenever possible.

AMT technology has been around for awhile. ESS had some interesting speaks back in the day. How robust are those Beyma TPL-150H drivers? I need a low maintenance system.
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post #18 of 142 Old 02-07-2017, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going with Bemya TPL150H for LR with my two TD15M. Can't really afford to go full 5.1 with with these drivers. What would compliment the LR channels for the C&LR surrounds?

Fountek NeoX 3.0 Ribbon Tweeters work? They are on sale. Hard to beat AE TD series. Will go with a smaller driver, but one that can go as low as the TD15M,but in a smaller box.

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post #19 of 142 Old 02-07-2017, 02:30 PM
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From what everyone else has told me nothing sounds like the TPL that is cheap. BUT if you went small, such as your surrounds, you can always use the TPL-76. I looked at using a few different drivers. I have something I can use for a center channel for now and that will allow me to save for the TPL's. Waiting to hear back about the price on the smaller TPL-76 myself.

I think another option for a great sounding alternative to the TPL-150 is the Mundorf. But that is more money. Dont think the Fountek sounds similar at all from what others have told me who have compared the two.
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post #20 of 142 Old 02-07-2017, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20tpl75-1.htm
$199.95 ea
  • BEYMA TPL-75 PLEATED DIAPHRAGM TWEETER
  • THE BEYMA TPL-75 IS DESIGNED TO HAVE VERY FLAT HIGHS FROM 1.5KHZ TO 23KHZ
  • VERY DETAILED "BELL-LIKE" HIGHS THAT ARE EXTREMELY SMOOTH
  • GOOD POWER HANDLING OF 40 WATTS AES @ 1.2KHZ & SENSITIVITY OF 92DB SPL
  • DISPERSION IS 120°H x 2V
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20tpl150-1.htm $339.95
  • BEYMA TPL-150 PLEATED DIAPHRAGM TWEETER
  • SUPERIOR SOUND QUALITY WITH AN EXTENDED RESPONSE TO 23KHZ
  • HIGH POWER HANDLING OF 80 WATTS AES @ 1KHZ & SENSITIVITY OF 99DB SPL
  • DISPERSION IS 120°H x 2V
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20tpl150h-1.htm $415.95
  • BEYMA TPL-150H PLEATED DIAPHRAGM TWEETER WITH HORN
  • SUPERIOR SOUND QUALITY WITH AN EXTENDED RESPONSE FROM 700HZ TO 23KHZ
  • HIGH POWER HANDLING OF 80 WATTS AES @ 1KHZ & SENSITIVITY OF 102DB SPL
  • DISPERSION IS 80°H x 3V

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post #21 of 142 Old 02-07-2017, 07:02 PM
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Oh wow, thanks for that. Now my surrounds are looking more doable.

Have you had a chance to look at some of the TPL-150H builds on AVS?

I dont remember all the posters names so I cant link all of them but some were very nice.
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post #22 of 142 Old 02-07-2017, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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It looks like the H wave guide adds 10° vertical dispersion, but narrows down to 80° horizontal dispersion to get the higher output. I wonder if the non H 150 would be a better match for my TD15Ms?

Now what excellent, but less expensive 10" drivers could I get for the center and surrounds?

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post #23 of 142 Old 02-07-2017, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Then again, that 80 degree horizontal dispersion of the TDL150H more closely matches the beaming of the TD15M at 1kHz.
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post #24 of 142 Old 02-07-2017, 11:49 PM
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Less expensive than what? 10M?

Eminence has some good drivers and so does 18 Sound, Beyma and RCF. I am sure you can add Faital Pro to the list but the others are the ones that I have used. I will be pairing my TPL-150H to a 10" PHL mid driver. I bought these years ago for about 200 each.
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post #25 of 142 Old 02-08-2017, 02:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I love the TDM series, but when you add up for a 5.1 system, it gets too much for the 3 drivers I'll need. ~$1k for 3 TD10Ms. $600 for the
3 TPL75s. I'll try and find less expensive 10" mid-bass drivers that model in the same cab so maybe I can swap in a TD10M in the future as funds become available.

I used to get my high-end speakers from e-speakers.com, but they appear to have closed shop. They are on FB, but it doesn't look very functional. I'd love to get some PHL mids. The only way to get some it seems is to order them as prototypes from PHL. Their only listed distributor is out of Asia. What PHL driver do you have?

DIY Sound Group has some parts lists for their kits and not all of the mid drivers are custom built Denovo drivers. Eminence seems to be a favorite supplier for them and some drivers listed can be obtained at Parts Express.
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I love the TDM series, but when you add up for a 5.1 system, it gets too much for the 3 drivers I'll need. ~$1k for 3 TD10Ms. $600 for the
3 TPL75s. I'll try and find less expensive 10" mid-bass drivers that model in the same cab so maybe I can swap in a TD10M in the future as funds become available.

I used to get my high-end speakers from e-speakers.com, but they appear to have closed shop. They are on FB, but it doesn't look very functional. I'd love to get some PHL mids. The only way to get some it seems is to order them as prototypes from PHL. Their only listed distributor is out of Asia. What PHL driver do you have?

DIY Sound Group has some parts lists for their kits and not all of the mid drivers are custom built Denovo drivers. Eminence seems to be a favorite supplier for them and some drivers listed can be obtained at Parts Express.

In my opinion the center channel speaker is by far the most important speaker in the entire room. That is where the vast majority of the vocals willl come from. With that in mind, I would recommend building your center speaker to the same specs as your other mains. Then on the surrounds you could go for something far cheaper like the Volt 10's from DIYSG. If you did that, I can promise that you will have a much better sounding setup.
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post #27 of 142 Old 02-08-2017, 03:47 AM
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I love the TDM series, but when you add up for a 5.1 system, it gets too much for the 3 drivers I'll need. ~$1k for 3 TD10Ms. $600 for the
3 TPL75s. I'll try and find less expensive 10" mid-bass drivers that model in the same cab so maybe I can swap in a TD10M in the future as funds become available.

I used to get my high-end speakers from e-speakers.com, but they appear to have closed shop. They are on FB, but it doesn't look very functional. I'd love to get some PHL mids. The only way to get some it seems is to order them as prototypes from PHL. Their only listed distributor is out of Asia. What PHL driver do you have?

DIY Sound Group has some parts lists for their kits and not all of the mid drivers are custom built Denovo drivers. Eminence seems to be a favorite supplier for them and some drivers listed can be obtained at Parts Express.
I have the PHL 3451 mids. They are the same as the 3450 but they are weather coated on both the front and back side of the cone. I dont believe Espeaqkers is around anymore either. I used to always go to their site years ago.

What kind of budget are you wanting to spend on a 10" mid?
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post #28 of 142 Old 02-08-2017, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Eminence Deltalite II 2510 Neo 10"
for the surrounds at least.
Still need something smaller than a TD15M for center under the TV screen.
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post #29 of 142 Old 02-08-2017, 11:59 AM
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Im not sure Id use the TPL150 myself. I just cant stand the sound of woofer break up. Ill be using an iwata600 and either the DNA-360 cause I have them or the Faital Pro HF10ak. Possibly the Radian 475pb with Be phragms but not sure they are what I want especially for the cost.

I want to cross the woofer below 1000hz. The beaming isnt as much a concern to me as the break up and unpredictable nature of the polar response when it gets up to those break up frequencies.

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post #30 of 142 Old 02-08-2017, 12:01 PM
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There arent many measurements available for the TD15m. Ill be sure to post mine when the time comes. Will be a month or so yet.
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