(8) Ported Incriminator Audio Judge 21" build - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 83 Old 02-15-2017, 02:37 PM
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Time to check your home insurance policy!
Need to break the concrete subfloor to feel 10hz, only way.

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post #32 of 83 Old 02-15-2017, 02:49 PM
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Being in a concrete basement only has little amounts of sound escaping, I can hear a movie muffled right outside my house, nothing in the backward.
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post #33 of 83 Old 02-15-2017, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Lined the inside with a super cheap mattress liner from wal-mart:




Avoided the area around the port:




1/2" round over turned out nicely:




@Rowan611 idea to use less Duratex (half) worked great. Once coat of flat black paint and then one coat of Duratex looks no different than two coats of Duratex. I should have done this on every box I've built!
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post #34 of 83 Old 02-15-2017, 10:08 PM
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Looks great Luke! Seriously like those round overs.

Lol, glad priming them with flat black worked out. It's a great way to do it.

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post #35 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Two of these ported is producing more SPL from 12-20hz than all 8 could sealed.

These cross over to dual Othorns at around 30hz, so once these ported boxes are finished I'll be around 145db from 14-150hz:




Most I've hit in the room at the LP so far (I use the "max" value so I consider this 147db):

Shh.... a certain someone might drop in to proclaim you have 100% distortion below tune, and that you have 'undone' your world class system.

Or in the alternative, that the measurements aren't valid.

"What the heck was that crashing noise?" Me: "oh, just tossed the shampoo bottles off the shelf on the opposite side of the house. "
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post #36 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 05:46 PM
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Like a submarine with a screen door... this system is going down.

[/Frank Drebin voice]

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post #37 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post
Need to break the concrete subfloor to feel 10hz, only way.
Or nearfield. So you have 2 ways!
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post #38 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 05:57 PM
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Or nearfield. So you have 2 ways!
Or tactile transducers. So you have 3 ways!


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post #39 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post
Need to break the concrete subfloor to feel 10hz, only way.
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Or nearfield. So you have 2 ways!
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Or tactile transducers. So you have 3 ways!


I'd like to compare the Crowsons to a near-field sub. @carp has both and likes the near-field sub better for >20hz and the Crowson better for <20hz if I recall correctly.

I guess it doesn't really matter since I don't have room for near-field subs anyway! I have thought about some near-field subs for the front row though since I have a HUGE null centered at 30hz for that entire row. Music sounds "okay" but movies stink.
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post #40 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I'd like to compare the Crowsons to a near-field sub. @carp has both and likes the near-field sub better for >20hz and the Crowson better for <20hz if I recall correctly.

I guess it doesn't really matter since I don't have room for near-field subs anyway! I have thought about some near-field subs for the front row though since I have a HUGE null centered at 30hz for that entire row. Music sounds "okay" but movies stink.
If you were still coming to the GTG, you could demo Carp's system and find out for yourself. Next time.

Is this why you sit in the back row?

Eliminate the back row and fill with subs. Profit.
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post #41 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
If you were still coming to the GTG, you could demo Carp's system and find out for yourself. Next time.

Is this why you sit in the back row?

Eliminate the back row and fill with subs. Profit.
Yep, bass is way better in the back.

I don't have enough seats for all the family as it is, so the back row isn't going anywhere

Dang man, I thought this was the year I'd finally make it down there. Those are my old 5400s in Doug's Ghorns!

Oh well, little man is doing great and I have absolutely nothing to complain about!
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post #42 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I'd like to compare the Crowsons to a near-field sub. @carp has both and likes the near-field sub better for >20hz and the Crowson better for <20hz if I recall correctly.

I guess it doesn't really matter since I don't have room for near-field subs anyway! I have thought about some near-field subs for the front row though since I have a HUGE null centered at 30hz for that entire row. Music sounds "okay" but movies stink.
I would think it totally depends on how many NF subs you have lol. A 18" or 2, I'd bet the crowsons do better.... Add a few more and it would be cool to try. Since I've never got to try the crowsons, I honestly don't know but it would have to be mind bending to compete with my wall o bass lol

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post #43 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 06:42 PM
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Now you need room length hallway outside the HT room, that does a 180 into another long narrow hallway that does a 180 into another long hallway opening up to the upstairs...

Effectivly turning the entire basement into a folding horn box !
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Link to budget Home Theater build

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...i-version.html
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post #44 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 07:15 PM
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That'd be awesome

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post #45 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Two of these ported is producing more SPL from 12-20hz than all 8 could sealed.

These cross over to dual Othorns at around 30hz, so once these ported boxes are finished I'll be around 145db from 14-150hz:


Most I've hit in the room at the LP so far (I use the "max" value so I consider this 147db):
But think of all the single digit content you're going to be missing!
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post #46 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 07:50 PM
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I would think it totally depends on how many NF subs you have lol. A 18" or 2, I'd bet the crowsons do better....
My subwoofer riser begs to differ.
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post #47 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 07:51 PM
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But think of all the single digit content you're going to be missing!
That's very, very important content you're just throwing away!
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post #48 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I would think it totally depends on how many NF subs you have lol. A 18" or 2, I'd bet the crowsons do better.... Add a few more and it would be cool to try. Since I've never got to try the crowsons, I honestly don't know but it would have to be mind bending to compete with my wall o bass lol
I definitely wasn't thinking of NF to that kind of insanity scale More like a pair of Crowsons vs. a pair of 18s
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post #49 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 08:14 PM
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Nothing like direct coupling to the seats. The way I think of NF subs and TT's are that they work together and both add something that the other one alone can't do.
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post #50 of 83 Old 02-16-2017, 10:07 PM
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My subwoofer riser begs to differ.
Wow it can talk?!! does it ever get mad from the hours upon hours of really loud milf porn rumbling though the subs
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post #51 of 83 Old 02-17-2017, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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After adding the bracing and stuffing the impedance minimum is still around 13.8hz. The box vibrates a lot less now, so the extra bracing was definitely worth it.
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post #52 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 09:02 AM
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Luke and guys I have an off the subject question "kinda". There is a member telling me that once we play a movie above 128db we are just hitting clipping in the digital domain. I am definitively not the one to understand or explain this so figured would ask others that play well well above 128db like I do without any audible clipping to my ears.

I obviously am just smart enough to set my gain structure for 100% max output but have no clue about this digital domain clipping business.

So those of us that run our subs hot and go well over 128db all the time how are we affecting this digital domain clipping he speaks of?

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post #53 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 09:29 AM
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No that is wrong. Just add gain (analogue or digital) downstream of the decoder.
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post #54 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 09:33 AM
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No that is wrong. Just add gain (analogue or digital) downstream of the decoder.
Ok that's what I thought when I was doing my max gain structure was accomplishing and didn't want to argue since I honestly am not very tech savvy.
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post #55 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Luke and guys I have an off the subject question "kinda". There is a member telling me that once we play a movie above 128db we are just hitting clipping in the digital domain. I am definitively not the one to understand or explain this so figured would ask others that play well well above 128db like I do without any audible clipping to my ears.

I obviously am just smart enough to set my gain structure for 100% max output but have no clue about this digital domain clipping business.

So those of us that run our subs hot and go well over 128db all the time how are we affecting this digital domain clipping he speaks of?
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No that is wrong. Just add gain (analogue or digital) downstream of the decoder.

I've found the easiest part in the signal chain to clip is the sub out on the receiver for movies, but I consistently go well above reference by 8-10db.

Others have tested a "worst case scenario" type of signal and they were able to cause digital clipping at reference unless the sub out was set to -10.5db! I'm not sure if any movies actually cause a WCS but some do get within a few db.

Because of that my sub out on the receiver stays at -12db, the gains in my sub amps are at max, and I adjust the sub trim from the input in the MiniDSP 10x10 for whatever level I want. For normal movie and music listening levels that input in the Mini is at -21db, so I have plenty of adjustment there if I want the bass really hot for a demo.
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post #56 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 10:32 AM
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@lukeamdman thanks as that's how I thought it would work and I've experienced quite similar results which ended up having my gain structure set very similar.
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post #57 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I've found the easiest part in the signal chain to clip is the sub out on the receiver for movies, but I consistently go well above reference by 8-10db.

Others have tested a "worst case scenario" type of signal and they were able to cause digital clipping at reference unless the sub out was set to -10.5db! I'm not sure if any movies actually cause a WCS but some do get within a few db.

Because of that my sub out on the receiver stays at -12db, the gains in my sub amps are at max, and I adjust the sub trim from the input in the MiniDSP 10x10 for whatever level I want. For normal movie and music listening levels that input in the Mini is at -21db, so I have plenty of adjustment there if I want the bass really hot for a demo.
Really? My 5308 is crazy.. this is from the AVR sub output..



I calibrate my subs so audyssey sets em to -11, then I can boost away using the sub levels on the AVR.
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post #58 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Really? My 5308 is crazy.. this is from the AVR sub output..



I calibrate my subs so audyssey sets em to -11, then I can boost away using the sub levels on the AVR.
It's not a voltage output problem but rather digital clipping from all the redirected bass from the L/C/R and surround channels.

You won't have the problem with 2ch music.
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post #59 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 03:25 PM
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It's not a voltage output problem but rather digital clipping from all the redirected bass from the L/C/R and surround channels.

You won't have the problem with 2ch music.
Interesting. I don't think I've run into this issue. If I have, it hasn't been audible. That said, I rarely run my subs above 0, which is 11-12db of gain already, at reference levels...
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post #60 of 83 Old 02-18-2017, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. I don't think I've run into this issue. If I have, it hasn't been audible. That said, I rarely run my subs above 0, which is 11-12db of gain already, at reference levels...
There was a thread on DB.com where they tested this on a 7702.

I haven't found it to be very audible, but when specifically listening for it during testing, it's more like a lack of dynamics than typically "clipping" or distortion sounds.
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