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post #61 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Were actually going to do a blind test with my qsc 2150s against jk 7.2 s titans when he gets them and finishes them

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Look forward to reading about it. BTW, I should have stated different approach to handling the bass as opposed to woofer design
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post #62 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gworrel View Post
If you're looking for more test dummies for your blind test, I volunteer.
Yeah it probably won't be for another month or so jk 7.2 should have his set pretty soon than he will need time to finish them I'll let you know when we're going to test them out

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post #63 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
There is definitely more bass. My HT is in a poured concrete basement with 3/4 OSB subfloor and a room-within-a-room construction plus double 5/8 drywall with green glue. The sound didn't wake up my wife and kids, but it had me more concerned than my previous speakers.
You probably feel more tactile sensations around port tune. Assuming similar SPL and FR in those frequencies.

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post #64 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post
How are you guys getting around SBIR effects that suck out mid-bass...125Hz to 250Hz ?
If they're not in a baffle wall, and they're within 4 feet of the front wall...is the only solution a foot of insulation above, to the sides, and behind the speakers?
I'm planning on eventually doing a baffle wall. I do have some suck outs that I've attempted to ameliorate with little success. I've got 2" OC 703 on the front wall to mitigate reflections for the higher frequencies. I'm building bass traps for the corners, but I'm not sure how else to deal with the omnidirectional frequencies. I don't have enough space to put 1 foot of OC 703 on the front wall. I might be able to squeeze in 4" of it behind the speakers but not necessarily the subs. Do you have any suggestions?
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post #65 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
I'm planning on eventually doing a baffle wall. I do have some suck outs that I've attempted to ameliorate with little success. I've got 2" OC 703 on the front wall to mitigate reflections for the higher frequencies. I'm building bass traps for the corners, but I'm not sure how else to deal with the omnidirectional frequencies. I don't have enough space to put 1 foot of OC 703 on the front wall. I might be able to squeeze in 4" of it behind the speakers but not necessarily the subs. Do you have any suggestions?
Tuned membrane traps should be more effective compared to loads of porous absorption. But I am not sure how much would you need and where would you place them. I suggest if you have opportunity first to try them for free.
Though, you kinda have a "speaker wall", maybe treating everything behind that "wall" could be somewhat effective. Again...try to test it for free to see if you get and like the result.

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post #66 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 03:19 PM
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I suggest if you have opportunity first to try them for free.
? Do you mean vendors offer free trials with free return shipping? Or to DIY some?

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post #67 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Tuned membrane traps should be more effective compared to loads of porous absorption. But I am not sure how much would you need and where would you place them. I suggest if you have opportunity first to try them for free.
Though, you kinda have a "speaker wall", maybe treating everything behind that "wall" could be somewhat effective. Again...try to test it for free to see if you get and like the result.
I had been looking at diy tuned membrane traps with the first layer plywood with 1" or 2" OC 703 behind it and attaching it to the wall with spacers.

http://audioundone.com/do-it-yourself-bass-traps
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post #68 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post
? Do you mean vendors offer free trials with free return shipping? Or to DIY some?
I doubt that. I think GIK (for example) has a return policy where you have to pay roundtrip shipping.
DIY is rather cheap, besides if you are planning to put traps anyway, you are probably buying rockwool so why not add some plywood on top and test it out?
Or borrow from neighbor fellow enthusiasts if you know any.

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post #69 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gworrel View Post
If you're looking for more test dummies for your blind test, I volunteer.
Yeah it probably won't be for another month or so jk 7.2 should have his set pretty soon than he will need time to finish them I'll let you know when we're going to test them out

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I plan on one week start to finish once I get them delivered. I will not be doing any fancy finishing, so I will not mind bringing two of these with me to others houses or what not. I cant wait to hear them. And getting comparisons with the other speakers we've all heard.
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post #70 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:10 PM
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post #71 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
I had been looking at diy tuned membrane traps with the first layer plywood with 1" or 2" OC 703 behind it and attaching it to the wall with spacers.

http://audioundone.com/do-it-yourself-bass-traps
Just in case you misunderstood, tuned traps are sealed. The one depicted covers wall completely. Its essentially a wooden box with one side acting as a membrane, and depending on a membrane mass, you can tune it to different frequencies.
There is also interesting bass trap design that actually affects low frequencies properly (<60 Hz), and it consists of steel plate (0.04-0.08 in thick) which has to be quite big... 3x4 feet at least iirc and it gets glued between two thick opencell foam sheets that absorb vibrations and make it stand freely, as it wouldn't perform if it was attached firmly to a panel like a tuned membrane design.

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Oc703 vs Rock wool.. are they interchangeable?
For best performance you need to know flow resistivity of material. Thinner traps perform best with higher flow resistivity material. Thicker traps need less flow resistivity. Flow resistivity can typically be derived from material density.

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post #72 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Oc703 vs Rock wool.. are they interchangeable?
Rockboard 60 and OC703 are virtually the same acoustically, though the Rockboard has an advantage in the lower frequency area (125Hz octave) and is much cheaper. Plus it's not fiberglass so that's also nice. If you can source the Roxul locally it's the best way to go IMHO

https://www.atsacoustics.com/page--S...erial--ac.html

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post #73 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Just in case you misunderstood, tuned traps are sealed. The one depicted covers wall completely. Its essentially a wooden box with one side acting as a membrane, and depending on a membrane mass, you can tune it to different frequencies.
There is also interesting bass trap design that actually affects low frequencies properly (<60 Hz), and it consists of steel plate (0.04-0.08 in thick) which has to be quite big... 3x4 feet at least iirc and it gets glued between two thick opencell foam sheets that absorb vibrations and make it stand freely, as it wouldn't perform if it was attached firmly to a panel like a tuned membrane design.
The tuned traps in that link are sealed. The image shows it as a cutaway to show what it looks like inside, but it specifically states they should be sealed. I wouldn't be covering the whole wall. I'd build something similar to what GIK sells. I'd prefer to use 1" 703 or rigid rockwool.
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post #74 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by turbonut View Post
Rockboard 60 and OC703 are virtually the same acoustically, though the Rockboard has an advantage in the lower frequency area (125Hz octave) and is much cheaper. Plus it's not fiberglass so that's also nice. If you can source the Roxul locally it's the best way to go IMHO

https://www.atsacoustics.com/page--S...erial--ac.html
The pricing I was quoted locally for rockboard and OC 703 was $0.07 different per sqft. So not much different.
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post #75 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
The pricing I was quoted locally for rockboard and OC 703 was $0.07 different per sqft. So not much different.
Based on the average pricing I've seen, one should expect to pay $10-$15 less per case of (6) 2" panels for the Roxul 60 vs OC703. But of course YMMV as mentioned above!

Linky linky:
Rockwool 60 = $52/case https://www.atsacoustics.com/item--R...f-6--RB60.html
OC703 = $65/case https://www.atsacoustics.com/item--O...f-6--1004.html
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post #76 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 06:13 PM
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Gearslutz membrane traps: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass...absorbers.html

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post #77 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Gearslutz membrane traps: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass...absorbers.html

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I've seen that thread abs there appears not to be a consensus on design. Maybe I need to make it through all of the pages.
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post #78 of 186 Old 02-24-2017, 08:22 PM
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I've seen that thread abs there appears not to be a consensus on design. Maybe I need to make it through all of the pages.
Yeah, BBC liked hardboard, Tim likes membrane, someone loosely hangs membrane, ugh. At least I found a link there to cheaper vinyl: http://www.soundaway.com/Mass-Loaded...FQ7yDAodiwEw3A

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post #79 of 186 Old 02-25-2017, 03:36 AM
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I've seen that thread abs there appears not to be a consensus on design. Maybe I need to make it through all of the pages.
You will have to read a lot. Its not so simple. For example, there is a difference between membrane with porous absorber touching it and membrane with gap between it and wool. Membrane with gap has narrow Q therefore it targets specific frequency better. Membrane with absorber touching it has wider Q, essentially has mass added to it.
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post #80 of 186 Old 02-25-2017, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
You will have to read a lot. Its not so simple. For example, there is a difference between membrane with porous absorber touching it and membrane with gap between it and wool. Membrane with gap has narrow Q therefore it targets specific frequency better. Membrane with absorber touching it has wider Q, essentially has mass added to it.
Yeah. I tried to use the calculator from that post. I'll need to figure out my room first. I've taken measurements, but apparently those can be misleading. I reached out to GIK. I might just pay for their expertise in this area. Not sure yet.
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post #81 of 186 Old 02-25-2017, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Not to quote myself, but I posted the below in the other Titan build thread and thought I should include it here in case folks aren't subscribed to both. I really like these speakers a lot.

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The voices are so clear and intelligible. I generally prefer a speaker that's like that for movies, but I can distinctly make out the vocals on songs too. I haven't yet hooked up my XPA-3 and I might do that today, but when I crank these just on the AVR, they can get extremely loud.

I was listening to music with my boys in the theater and I generally try to make sure that I don't turn it up too loud when they're in there. My wife came in from outside and when she opened the theater door, she said why is the volume so loud. I looked at the volume number to see what it was at. I told her this volume is about 7 notches quieter than what we were watching a movie at just the other night. She couldn't believe me.

I want to say that there is distinct separation between the lows, mids and highs, but they also blend so well together if that makes any sense. I'm not the biggest fan of trying to explain how speakers sound. I write for a living and I could sit down and try to write some flowery prose like Stereophile, but that's not my style. I just know I like what I'm hearing. Now to get my subs and speakers and room all integrated with one another. Gonna build some bass traps and possibly some tuned membrane traps if I can figure them out. I know for sure that I'm not upgrading these anytime soon.
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post #82 of 186 Old 02-25-2017, 11:21 AM
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Could you briefly describe what is improved over the 1099's? Is it subtle with movies? Would you recommend this upgrade to someone who already has the 1099's?
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post #83 of 186 Old 02-25-2017, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Could you briefly describe what is improved over the 1099's? Is it subtle with movies? Would you recommend this upgrade to someone who already has the 1099's?
I definitely think they sound different. However, I wouldn't in good conscience recommend that someone who has the 1099s and is enjoying them switch them out to build these. The 1099s are a great speaker. I was perfectly satisfied with those. I will be honest, part of the initial appeal to me of the Titans was how they look. I like the aggressive look of the JBL 4722 and the QSC 2150 with their beefy cab and exposed back mids/highs. That along with the fact that I wanted to build a baffle wall led me to pull the trigger and go with the Titans.

If I were to compare them, I'd say that the Titans definitely shine in two channel mode or with just my rear subs firing. I would often have my subs off unless I'm sitting down and "officially" watching a movie (having a movie night) or playing music. I don't have my iNukes on a trigger, so I have to manually turn them on. My PB12s have auto on-off so they are generally always on but at a lower volume as I just use them to fill some nulls (and I got an unbalanced minidsp, which neuters the signal to the subs - this isn't problematic because I've got a lot of headroom for these subs and how I use them). The 1099s aren't designed to be full range and they shine for movies and music with a sub. I'd of course still recommend the Titans with a sub too, but they really just fill the room, are clear and have a balanced sound.
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post #84 of 186 Old 02-25-2017, 11:58 AM
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Thanks. I do love my 1099's. But aren't we always chasing perfection lol... I'd be perfectly happy if the 1099's were my "forever speakers". Enjoy your Titans!
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post #85 of 186 Old 02-25-2017, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I do love my 1099's. But aren't we always chasing perfection lol... I'd be perfectly happy if the 1099's were my "forever speakers". Enjoy your Titans!
After perusing your build thread. I've changed my mind. I could in good conscience say "go ahead and upgrade."
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post #86 of 186 Old 02-27-2017, 08:16 PM
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I'm SOLD!!

Thanks Vic, the reviews from both yourself and eng-399 have steered me towards the Titans as the initial set of LCRs for my new build (coming soon ... I still have a LOT of reading to do!!).
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post #87 of 186 Old 02-28-2017, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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So, I'm planning on building a baffle wall. But first, I'm going to finish my bass traps of 4" or 6" OC 703 in three primary corners (the entrance prevents treating the fourth corner) and in the front (and perhaps some side) dihedral corners. Below is an initial pre-Audyssey measurement. As you can see I'm going to have to mitigate the SBIR. Nonetheless, these get some really great in room extension. I have 2" of OC 703 on the front wall behind the LCR (and partially behind the subs). I'll be adding 4" OC 703 behind each Titan cab and also I'll be treating the side walls behind the L and R Titan. The SPL measurement below is with 1/6 smoothing applied. I'll be running Audyssey once I finish my other room treatments.

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post #88 of 186 Old 02-28-2017, 06:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
So, I'm planning on building a baffle wall. But first, I'm going to finish my bass traps of 4" or 6" OC 703 in three primary corners (the entrance prevents treating the fourth corner) and in the front (and perhaps some side) dihedral corners. Below is an initial pre-Audyssey measurement. As you can see I'm going to have to mitigate the SBIR. Nonetheless, these get some really great in room extension. I have 2" of OC 703 on the front wall behind the LCR (and partially behind the subs). I'll be adding 4" OC 703 behind each Titan cab and also I'll be treating the side walls behind the L and R Titan. The SPL measurement below is with 1/6 smoothing applied. I'll be running Audyssey once I finish my other room treatments.

Any crossover? running them large? Is that a single titan?
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post #89 of 186 Old 03-01-2017, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Any crossover? running them large? Is that a single titan?
Running them large. That's one speaker. The measurement is about 10 feet from the speaker.
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post #90 of 186 Old 03-01-2017, 08:55 AM
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Without subs, correct?

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