Please help keep my last bit of sanity - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Please help keep my last bit of sanity

Preface: My room. Is torn apart and useless, it's driving me insane and trying to figure this out has caused me few sleepless nights (I know that's abnormal... I have sleep issues)

I've searched and searched for more hours than I'm proud of but can't figure this out:

I have 3 fusion-10 pures but they need more bass. My primary subwoofers can't be moved. They are a dts-10 like FLH and Maelstrom 18 g2 currently sealed but may go ported - each is off to one side about 3 ft behind and 2 feet outside seating, horn on right... I also have an SI ht18 in a sealed 4cu flatpack...

To add more mid bass was thinking of starting with either a. 1 pa-460 in the 4vu do (sell SI woofer) b. 1-2 behringer b1200p or magnum-12s

My nightmare has been figuring out if it's OK to use the mbm from around 60-150 (DEP on measurements) on the life channel... There are very mixed opinions on this and I can't figure out how bad of an idea it is... If done properly (will ask for help ha) can this work fairly recently assuming the right minidsp etc is used?
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post #2 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 08:18 AM
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Well, assuming you meant the LFE channel, vs the life channel, the issue is that the LFE channel's frequency range tops out at 120hz. If you are using bass management, whatever frequencies are lower than what your crossovers are set at will also be redirected to the LFE channel, but again, at 120hz, this will start to drop off.
What about running the MBM signal off of the front channel outputs? I think that's a more common way to approach adding a MBM.
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post #3 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
Preface: My room. Is torn apart and useless, it's driving me insane and trying to figure this out has caused me few sleepless nights (I know that's abnormal... I have sleep issues)

I've searched and searched for more hours than I'm proud of but can't figure this out:

I have 3 fusion-10 pures but they need more bass. My primary subwoofers can't be moved. They are a dts-10 like FLH and Maelstrom 18 g2 currently sealed but may go ported - each is off to one side about 3 ft behind and 2 feet outside seating, horn on right... I also have an SI ht18 in a sealed 4cu flatpack...

To add more mid bass was thinking of starting with either a. 1 pa-460 in the 4vu do (sell SI woofer) b. 1-2 behringer b1200p or magnum-12s

My nightmare has been figuring out if it's OK to use the mbm from around 60-150 (DEP on measurements) on the life channel... There are very mixed opinions on this and I can't figure out how bad of an idea it is... If done properly (will ask for help ha) can this work fairly recently assuming the right minidsp etc is used?
Hi,

It is definitely okay to use the MBM for LFE, and as far as I know, nearly everyone who employs an MBM just runs it through the normal AVR sub outs. You can always use the controls in the Behringer, for instance, or your miniDSP post-calibration, to tailor the response, if you need to. But, there is always a chance that the MBM will integrate pretty well on its own.

This definitely is not an issue to lose any sleep over. If you want some general information, or some specific advice, just read/post on the following thread:

Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response

If you take a look at Page 1 before posting, you will discover a tremendous amount of useful information, on the benefits and uses of MBM's, summarized there.

Regards,
Mike

Last edited by mthomas47; 02-17-2017 at 08:39 AM.
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post #4 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
Well, assuming you meant the LFE channel, vs the life channel, the issue is that the LFE channel's frequency range tops out at 120hz. If you are using bass management, whatever frequencies are lower than what your crossovers are set at will also be redirected to the LFE channel, but again, at 120hz, this will start to drop off.
What about running the MBM signal off of the front channel outputs? I think that's a more common way to approach adding a MBM.
That would require 3 mbms wouldn't it?

I don't have the funds for the extra amps and all that...
One pa would only cost me around 300-350 with amp but go up to 3 of anything and that jumps to over 1000... It's a HUGE difference and many people say you can do passband mbm on lfe (many say you shouldn't also...)

My ABR let's me set my crossovers nearly to 300 and lpf/lfe over 200 (really odd I think)

Last edited by goonstopher; 02-17-2017 at 08:40 AM.
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post #5 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 08:45 AM
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Well if that's the case, you could definitely run the MBM off that channel. You could use a minidsp or the likes to set a high pass to the MBM and let your subs just handle the low stuff.
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post #6 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 08:55 AM
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A sketch of the room and layout would help.
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #7 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 10:24 AM
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Just keep in mind that the Behringer B1200d-PRO has an undefeatable low-pass (high-cut) filter (150Hz max), and is primarily used for its tactile response. I would not recommend it as a stand-alone MBM unless you like things on the boomy side.

Another, better option is the Turbosound iNSPIRE iP12B. For only $100 more you get integrated DSP with iPhone/Android app control. It also has built in amplification for satellite speakers if you so choose.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Turbosou...d-Subwoofer.gc

I can think of multiple connections solutions with two or just one of these. I would go with two, one on each side of the front stage to help prevent localization.

I would be using the Turbosound over the Behringers if I wasn't placement limited. The Behringer barely fits between a set of french doors on the side of my room.
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post #8 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 10:55 AM
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These have a internal amps for you mf/hf as well with a 200hz crossover. never heard them but pretty cheap.

http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/...Tremor_PW-PKG1

2000 watts of power and climbing

-Fred
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post #9 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
That would require 3 mbms wouldn't it?

I don't have the funds for the extra amps and all that...
One pa would only cost me around 300-350 with amp but go up to 3 of anything and that jumps to over 1000... It's a HUGE difference and many people say you can do passband mbm on lfe (many say you shouldn't also...)

My ABR let's me set my crossovers nearly to 300 and lpf/lfe over 200 (really odd I think)
I tried taking 3 of those Fusions off of your hands but i never heard back..

Receiver : Denon x2300
Front Speakers: 3 DIYSG Fusion 10's
Surround Speakers :2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Atmos Speakers: 2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers : Dual Dayton HO 18's in sealed cabs w/Inuke 6000 DSP
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post #10 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 11:11 AM
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He must have slept through it.


I see you have them anyway. Make them yourself?
Michael
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #11 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 11:17 AM
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yeah just finished them last weekend...I got the flatpacks..and got some local help with the crossovers..posted a build thread a few days ago.

very happy with them.

Receiver : Denon x2300
Front Speakers: 3 DIYSG Fusion 10's
Surround Speakers :2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Atmos Speakers: 2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers : Dual Dayton HO 18's in sealed cabs w/Inuke 6000 DSP
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post #12 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 11:30 AM
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It shouldn't be a big deal to add ports to that sealed box and use it with a PA460. The biggest thing will be placement of that MBM. If you don't get good response from 60+ Hz where you place the MBM, there's not much point in the project.
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post #13 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
A sketch of the room and layout would help.
Michael
The room is REALLY ODD (fireplace/chimeny breast with alcoves, bay windows, double.door, large arch.and built in shelve leading to walk in closet etc)

Running on no sleep and 9hr for the week so will get that done tomorrow ha... Like I mentioned, sleep has never been easy for me but having an unresolved idea on top of the usual stress ... Been ugly. Not really the point but getting this somewhat clarifies would ease one distraction that my insomnia can key on.

Really appreciate all the help from everyone. It's so damn silly to have this on my mind but the room is torn upside down and making it whole again would help ease one worry (not sleeping really messes up EVERYTHING)
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post #14 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chadsmith013 View Post
I tried taking 3 of those Fusions off of your hands but i never heard back..
Sorry man. I hate making excuses but my insomnia has been at new levels (impressive since it's always been bad...)

If mbms aren't an options I'll offer you them 1st. I need this resolved though so I'll sleep tonight (would be inhuman if I got through a week on 9hr) so I can figure that out this weekend.
Don't want you to think it will effect anything; if I accept you money you will get it shipped within 2 days. I'm selling other speakers and went ALL out building a rock solid system to get them out safely despite all of this.
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chadsmith013 View Post
yeah just finished them last weekend...I got the flatpacks..and got some local help with the crossovers..posted a build thread a few days ago.

very happy with them.
Aaaahahaha good to hear... We'll see I am half a zombie and replied before seeing this.
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post #16 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
Well if that's the case, you could definitely run the MBM off that channel. You could use a minidsp or the likes to set a high pass to the MBM and let your subs just handle the low stuff.
Thank you.

Opinions on this seem super mixed...

Part of me wants to sell the fusions and the SI ht18 to get fusion 15 sentinel but the cheapest and easiest option would be just one pa460 for now (I can't stand the state of this room right now so simplicity is a huge plus)
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post #17 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyway... I'm clearly not all there now but appreciate any help. Hopefully I'll.crash tonight and be able to get some clarity this weekend with the help of the forum. Playing in areas outside my current knowledge while functionally impaired is no good (like I said, it's not the driver but it's kept the engine running ha)
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post #18 of 19 Old 02-17-2017, 04:35 PM
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This is not a doctor or any medically verified person, just a former insomniac. Three things that cured me.

Diet, especially sugar. Eat real food. Go to the "edges" of your grocery store. Drink water. Melatonin is good

Exercise. Do pushups, situps, etc for hours until your tired. What good will laying in bed be? Get ripped.

Turn off. Turn your phone off. Turn your t.v. off. Turn your computer off. Go to the library, get books so when your ams and legs are burning you can rest.

Also, full disclosure, I still wake up at Midnight, and realize, well, I'm awake now. Rarely I just won't sleep. It is really amazing how much you can accomplish if you just go to town for 40 hours non stop lolol. That said, these three simple things changed my life, hopefully it'll help you.
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post #19 of 19 Old 02-18-2017, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
I've searched and searched for more hours than I'm proud of but can't figure this out:

I have 3 fusion-10 pures but they need more bass. My primary subwoofers can't be moved. They are a dts-10 like FLH and Maelstrom 18 g2 currently sealed but may go ported - each is off to one side about 3 ft behind and 2 feet outside seating, horn on right... I also have an SI ht18 in a sealed 4cu flatpack...
RELAX, I got your back, man. You should have come to me first.

I have a pair of Fusion 10's I have had a couple of years now. That Eminence 10" pro woofer is VERY stiff right out of the box. The sound is very thin and just doesn't sound right, there is no bottom end, at first. The stiffness contributes to the low distortion, so that's a good thing.

Think of it like a very high quality pair of leather shoes that feel too tight when new, but after you wear them for a while they break-in and feel good forever after that. That's the Eminence woofer.

That particular woofer needs a break-in. I don't mean for a few hours, I mean for a whole month playing at normal levels, 100 hours. You could do a special break-in, but that's really not necessary, just play them and enjoy them. You'll find they sound better every day, and after a year they are phenomenal.

New mid-bass modules not needed. Just be patient, good sound awaits.
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Last edited by wvu80; 02-18-2017 at 12:54 PM.
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