Just another UM18 build.... - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 03-04-2017, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Just another UM18 build....




Ill have many more pics tomorrow. This is just the front panel roughed in. I still need to do some detail sanding but they are almost ready for bonding. Funny....I dont even have the drivers yet! They should arrive by Wed but wanted to get a jump.



The thing that makes these 'fun' is that I designed them with the mindset of the highest material recovery and fewest piece cuts not only to maximize material usage but to also take advantage of as many 'factory edges' as possible (not that you should always trust factory edges!)

The internal volume (calc'ed with port volume subtracted) is just at 9cf.

Outside dimensions are:
18"d X24"w X48"h.
I have 19" access doors behind my screen wall so I had to do less than 18". Ideally I would of made the depth 24" and this would of yielded an internal volume (minus bracing, driver and ports) of ~12cf.
Because MDF is an inch larger than 4'x8' you can get your dimensions without worrying about kerf and only loose a tiny amount of material per sheet.
Port dimensions are:
(3x) 4"x30"


With a 2x thick front face two of these sub enclosures can be built with about 2.5 sheets.

-All cuts for 2 are done, I only have 4 more to build!

~JH
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post #2 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 12:25 AM
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I'm not a fan of factory edges/corners. Apparently, neither are the stockers at most home centers.
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post #3 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 05:55 AM
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Nice, what are you going to use for amplification? Finish?

Dedicated HT | FRONTS: Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 CENTER: Sonus Faber Venere Centre SURROUNDS: Sonus Faber Venere Walls RECEIVER: Marantz SR-7010 SUBWOOFERS: DUAL 18" Dayton RSS460HO Custom Build | Behringer iNuke 6000DSP | Velodyne SMS-1 DISPLAY: JVC D-ILA RS-46 w/ 128" 16:9 1.4 TREATMENT: Custom Bass Traps and Acoustic Panels (11)
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post #4 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBoat View Post
I'm not a fan of factory edges/corners. Apparently, neither are the stockers at most home centers.
I pulled two sheets off the unit before loading the panels on the cart, both had damage. The typical method for these stores is to put remaining stock on top of a new unit when replenishing stock. The old stuff was on the bottom and often has warpage, fork sticks and strap compression. Also, all returns are just thrown on top. Returns are ALWAYS jacked! Never buy the first sheets unless you can tell they are mint. HD HATES the fact that I pull panels off but thats just the way it rolls.
-I dont like factory edges because they are not always square or straight but for most people that dont have the tools to rip a panel a factory edge is their best bet.

~JH
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post #5 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice, what are you going to use for amplification? Finish?
Tks,

Looks like I am going to use the inuke 6ks. Not interesting...not fun.

I will likely use the same 'hammered finish' coating I used on the surrounds after resin coating (huge fan of resin coating in and out).


They are going to be behind the screen wall so I didnt want to go fancy with the finishing, they will never be seen.


~JH
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post #6 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
Tks,

Looks like I am going to use the inuke 6ks. Not interesting...not fun.

I will likely use the same 'hammered finish' coating I used on the surrounds after resin coating (huge fan of resin coating in and out).


They are going to be behind the screen wall so I didnt want to go fancy with the finishing, they will never be seen.


~JH
Very nice! Keep us posted.

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post #7 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
I will likely use the same 'hammered finish' coating I used on the surrounds after resin coating (huge fan of resin coating in and out). ~JH
What do you mean by resin coating in and out? I really like the hammered finish too.

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post #8 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post



Ill have many more pics tomorrow. This is just the front panel roughed in. I still need to do some detail sanding but they are almost ready for bonding. Funny....I dont even have the drivers yet! They should arrive by Wed but wanted to get a jump.



The thing that makes these 'fun' is that I designed them with the mindset of the highest material recovery and fewest piece cuts not only to maximize material usage but to also take advantage of as many 'factory edges' as possible (not that you should always trust factory edges!)

The internal volume (calc'ed with port volume subtracted) is just at 9cf.

Outside dimensions are:
18"d X24"w X48"h.
I have 19" access doors behind my screen wall so I had to do less than 18". Ideally I would of made the depth 24" and this would of yielded an internal volume (minus bracing, driver and ports) of ~12cf.
Because MDF is an inch larger than 4'x8' you can get your dimensions without worrying about kerf and only loose a tiny amount of material per sheet.
Port dimensions are:
(3x) 4"x30"


With a 2x thick front face two of these sub enclosures can be built with about 2.5 sheets.

-All cuts for 2 are done, I only have 4 more to build!

~JH
thats a good dimension. one can do a box per sheet if they forgo a front baffle.

how do you plan to make your 4" holes for the ports?

I made my box very similar. 16x24x50.5. I used the 49" height of the mdf for more box volume and less cutting
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64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
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90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
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post #9 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you mean by resin coating in and out? I really like the hammered finish too.
I use an epoxy resin with medium speed catalyst (about an hour) and just roll on a coat with a epoxy safe roller. After it cures I take a DA sander and knock down the high spots.

Reasons....

-It forms a hard shell on the cabs. MDF soaks paint like a sponge. After 'plasti coating' they take any paint as smooth as glass with zero soak.

-It also adds SIGNIFICANT chip/ding protection.

-It fills all imperfect seams and small imperfections in wood (most nail holes)....zero air leaks.

-Makes wood speakers 'all weather' if done correctly.

-increases panel rigidity. Take a piece of .5x.5x12", coat and try and break vs an uncoated piece of the same size.





Made some progress today. I still have considerable bracing to complete before mounting the faces. I still need to get the ports in and am reluctant to do much more until I have the drivers in hand.


ALSO!!!!

I am going to be using a 4" long radius ABS bend in the ports. Does anyone off hand have any idea how much length these add to the port?



~JH
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post #10 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Another. If I squint I can almost see a sub cabinet!

~JH
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post #11 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
I use an epoxy resin with medium speed catalyst (about an hour) and just roll on a coat with a epoxy safe roller. After it cures I take a DA sander and knock down the high spots.

Reasons....

-It forms a hard shell on the cabs. MDF soaks paint like a sponge. After 'plasti coating' they take any paint as smooth as glass with zero soak.
~JH
I too saturate MDF with epoxy resin. I have 5 gals of the stuff left from my boat building ventures and other composite projects.


Here's a cutaway from a ring for a speaker grille I built that shows how far it soaks in. I use it thinned with denatured alcohol and slow hardener though so I can kep painting it on until it is saturated.
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post #12 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I too saturate MDF with epoxy resin. I have 5 gals of the stuff left from my boat building ventures and other composite projects.


Here's a cutaway from a ring for a speaker grille I built that shows how far it soaks in. I use it thinned with denatured alcohol and slow hardener though so I can kep painting it on until it is saturated.
We have 2 different schools of thought with the same results.

I do a 2 step process where I paint a light primary coat, let cure. The next day dewax with acetone and apply another coat.

After the first coat cures it looks rough but completely seals the wood and allows the second coat to be purely build.




Ive been doing the composite stuff for a while for fun; guitars, aircraft and racing....

-lets see the boat.

~JH
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post #13 of 42 Old 03-05-2017, 08:58 PM
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This is my personal boat. It's plywood/glass composite bottom, top cap is also ply/glass. Total dry hull weight is just under 400#. Hull length is 17'10". Been using it hard in salt water since 06 without an issue.



Console is strip built/ply/glass composite.

Also have built plugs and molds for polyester production parts and done a fair bit of that as well. I do have some carbon fiber mill ends and such from past work as well, all the fillers and the tools.

I gather you know too well how this ends up on everything.

Yes, two different approaches to the same end. With the long cure, as the alcohol evaporates, the resin thickens and it gets the best of both worlds over time.

I am not a fan of MDF other than for this so the least we can do is turn it into SMDF. Super Medium Density Overlay.

The marine experience has shown that paint over epoxy lasts approximately 4:1 over what it does on primed wood. I know MDF is more dimensionally stable on it's surface than plywood, but I have seen edges of MDF that have expanded over time due to high humidity, and some degradation in older speaker cabinets with the panels becoming somewhat 'mealy' for lack of a better explanation. Also, screw holes treated with epoxy hold fasteners a lot better. I am sure this is overkill, but again. . .if you got it and are familiar with the materials, why not, right?
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Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
We have 2 different schools of thought with the same results.

I do a 2 step process where I paint a light primary coat, let cure. The next day dewax with acetone and apply another coat.

After the first coat cures it looks rough but completely seals the wood and allows the second coat to be purely build.




Ive been doing the composite stuff for a while for fun; guitars, aircraft and racing....

-lets see the boat.

~JH
Nice dash panel and layout.
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post #15 of 42 Old 03-07-2017, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Tks MrBoat, twas nothing.


I ordered these bi-amp mounting plugs:



I have never seen this done with a single driver but I am going to use these bi-amp jacks to wire each coil of the DVCs separately. This will allow me to change impedance of the cabinet without having to remove the driver.





I flared a bellmouth on the end of the ABS for the inside ports.

Got the port tubes installed....I wanted to take more pics but glued in the port sections in the cab faces and couldnt disturb them until the glue sets!

Speakers should arrive tomorrow!

-need to order an amp!

~JH
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post #16 of 42 Old 03-08-2017, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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2 of the 6 arrived!

Nice sub, no Morel Ultimo but a bit more cost effective.



Ports glued in and radiused. I need to put a little bondo in a few seams but overall they are sitting nice.



Backside test fitting before glue up. Once you hit'em with the ABS black there is no going back!



About 200lbs as the face sets. I had to scramble on the other one as the sides were slightly bowed and my nail gun only had 1.5" nails. This wont do any good on a 1.5" top! Had to quickly pre-drill and use some 3" screws to get the sides square.
It all worked out but it had me jumping for a few....

We are getting close!

~JH
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post #17 of 42 Old 03-09-2017, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Apparently they make a great fort.




Need to clean up the edges a little, install the jacks, get some feet and maybe some handles. -Its pretty shocking what these cabs weigh even with no drivers.

Considering just packing them down to the local bed liner place to have them shot. I have had really good results with this method.

~JH
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post #18 of 42 Old 03-10-2017, 07:07 AM
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You did let him out before installing the sub.....





...didn't you?
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post #19 of 42 Old 03-16-2017, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Rosin coated, one coat, will do 2. The light spots around the ports are a little bondo and wood glue. They dont stand out too bad until you hit them with rosin and then they really stand out.




Truthfully I feel a little dirty I went the inuke route; sort of like going too long without a shower.


~JH
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post #20 of 42 Old 03-16-2017, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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You did let him out before installing the sub.....





...didn't you?
I did. Not enough room with the magnet.

-however....he now has me under the gun to build him some sort of fort thing in the back yard!

~JH
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post #21 of 42 Old 03-17-2017, 05:54 AM
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I did. Not enough room with the magnet.

-however....he now has me under the gun to build him some sort of fort thing in the back yard!

~JH
What about a subwoofer enclosure for a 32" driver, with a huge port/door????
Add a couple of rock speakers for a nice backyard 2.1???


...errr.... ummmm.... Fort.....

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post #22 of 42 Old 03-17-2017, 09:32 AM
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Truthfully I feel a little dirty I went the inuke route; sort of like going too long without a shower.
Don't worry about it, that feeling goes away when it hits you how much you're getting for so little. Sure you could have paid more for a higher end unit with less power, but then you would have had the constant question "could these be using more?"
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post #23 of 42 Old 03-18-2017, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't worry about it, that feeling goes away when it hits you how much you're getting for so little. Sure you could have paid more for a higher end unit with less power, but then you would have had the constant question "could these be using more?"

Maybe I could just get a McIntosh sticker to cover the Behringer? LOL




One (still very wet) coat of textured coating. They will need another but are getting close. They will also loose a good bit of the shine after they settle down.

Funny thing about that paint.... "apply with high quality roller". Well I can say with 100% certainty that statement is BS. You must use a solvent/epoxy/adhesive safe roller unless you want hairs all through it. I learned my lesson on the first surround I did.


And for no other reason I am posting this pic I took today at the HD. I think its great that I will soon be able to have an easy way to get rid of all my old golf balls.




~JH
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post #24 of 42 Old 03-18-2017, 04:55 PM
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Maybe I could just get a McIntosh sticker to cover the Behringer? LOL
Hmmmm... Behrintosh? MacInger? Lol

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Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
And for no other reason I am posting this pic I took today at the HD. I think its great that I will soon be able to have an easy way to get rid of all my old golf balls.




~JH
You think the pic is good? Wait till you see the videos! I'm not even joking. I think I've seen claims like "24 hotdogs"... "16 balls of play dough"... So random. I'd love to work for that marketing department.

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post #25 of 42 Old 03-20-2017, 04:57 PM
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A slightly strange request....

As you're in the middle of this build I think you may be best able to help - could you do me a huge favour?

Before you install the drivers, I'm assuming you've left at least one still in its packaging, could you weigh one (in its packaging) for me? Or weigh the bare driver and packaging separately if it's easier.

I've emailed PE, and got the answer that packaged, it'll weigh 45lbs, but that's the quoted bare weight on the web-site; equally, I've read reviews that these actually weigh over 50lbs each! So not sure what the definitive answer is.....

I've organised my roster, so I'm over in the States twice during April, and am hoping to get two of these (one at a time, due weight and import restrictions to the UK) delivered to the crew hotels. But if the packaged weight is more than 50lbs, I'll have a decision to make; pay the excess baggage, or pick a lighter driver - not a problem getting it on my own aircraft, but I commute by air back home, and get treated just like any other passenger at that point!

Many thanks,

Phil
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post #26 of 42 Old 03-20-2017, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Phil
Not a strange request at all.
It will take a few days; have a scale on order (been needing one anyway) but will get you the measurement.

I am assuming lbs will be an acceptable form of measurement? I can convert it to stone or other imperial measurement if you need. (joking)


On a 'strange request' note:

A few months ago a friend in Australia sends me a message saying he wants a rare guitar (71 Les Paul Goldtop @ $5k USD) being sold here in Portland Or. on Craigslist. He asked if I would buy it, send it to NSW and he would reimburse me. (There was a time delay between for the money transfer to clear so I would need to pay cash up front.)

-now THAT was an odd request!
(*and yes I did it and he paid for it)


~JH
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post #27 of 42 Old 03-20-2017, 11:34 PM
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Not a strange request at all.
It will take a few days; have a scale on order (been needing one anyway) but will get you the measurement.
Crikey! I didn't mean to put you to any real trouble and expense! I sort of thought everyone had a set of scales - I mean, how else does ones wife keep the weight in check? (Sadly, I don't need scales to tell me which way my 'slightly older than middle aged' body is heading )

Quote:
I am assuming lbs will be an acceptable form of measurement? I can convert it to stone or other imperial measurement if you need. (joking)
Oh, anything that's convenient, I'll get my manservant to convert it for me, Mr Google, I believe he's from the colonies too!


Quote:
On a 'strange request' note:

A few months ago a friend in Australia sends me a message saying he wants a rare guitar (71 Les Paul Goldtop @ $5k USD) being sold here in Portland Or. on Craigslist. He asked if I would buy it, send it to NSW and he would reimburse me. (There was a time delay between for the money transfer to clear so I would need to pay cash up front.)

-now THAT was an odd request!
(*and yes I did it and he paid for it)


~JH
There are probably only two people outside of family that I'd do that for without hesitation. Both, I'll be there for them if ever they need me, and I know they'd do the same for me and my family without even being asked. True mates, not just 'Facebook friends' - they make the world a better place!

Again, many thanks for your trouble,

P

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post #28 of 42 Old 03-22-2017, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Crikey! I didn't mean to put you to any real trouble and expense! I sort of thought everyone had a set of scales - I mean, how else does ones wife keep the weight in check? (Sadly, I don't need scales to tell me which way my 'slightly older than middle aged' body is heading )


P
Raw driver weighs 43.5
Driver is shipped with 2 boxes, one as shipped from China (opened for inspection) and that box is placed in another box for shipping to customer.

Each box weighed about 2.5 pounds for 5(ish) total.

You could easily loose the outside box for a 2.5lbs savings.

~JH




Bracing webs. There are 3 sets of these in these cabs....I should of taken a pic before stuffing.




I really like the 'bi amp' plug to access each VCs without having to pull the driver. With this bridge in place they are sitting at 1ohm.

-Oh and I know the finish is a little thin in places....because these are going behind a screen wall I decided to have a beer and not worry about it.




Many uses for polyfill.




Ready for feet!

NOTE....

I was able to do a little testing with ~200watts each but WOW what a huge difference over the other subs!!!

The low range output seems almost effortless. Clearly going larger cabs was the correct decision for my HT.

I will likely build 2 more but I cant foresee ever needing more than 4 total.


~JH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
Raw driver weighs 43.5
Driver is shipped with 2 boxes, one as shipped from China (opened for inspection) and that box is placed in another box for shipping to customer.

Each box weighed about 2.5 pounds for 5(ish) total.

You could easily loose the outside box for a 2.5lbs savings.

~JH
That is perfect Jonny. And just what I needed to hear (read), it keeps me a pound or two below my max hold baggage allowance, so should have no problems getting these home.

I'm still deciding whether to go sealed or ported. Did you design and model these yourself, or are they a mod of a Marty?

Also, I've been meaning to ask, as the pipework looks like regular plumbing stuff, but if so, how were the flares created - I've not seen anything like that at the hardware stores.

Again, many thanks for your help.

Phil

Edit: just read that you created the 'radius' at the end. How is that achieved? Is it something that a hobbyist with no experience might be capable of?

Last edited by UK Dreamer; Yesterday at 12:54 AM.
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post #30 of 42 Old Yesterday, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UK Dreamer View Post
That is perfect Jonny. And just what I needed to hear (read), it keeps me a pound or two below my max hold baggage allowance, so should have no problems getting these home.

I'm still deciding whether to go sealed or ported. Did you design and model these yourself, or are they a mod of a Marty?

Also, I've been meaning to ask, as the pipework looks like regular plumbing stuff, but if so, how were the flares created - I've not seen anything like that at the hardware stores.

Again, many thanks for your help.

Phil

Edit: just read that you created the 'radius' at the end. How is that achieved? Is it something that a hobbyist with no experience might be capable of?

Phil, I have been making bellmouths for EFI inlets for my racing engines for years using this technique and thought it would be a good idea for ports for the sub.

For the race engines I make a form from scratch....but for the port I just wanted something quick and easy so I raided the kitchen.

-I 'thought' my idea was original but here is a vid that uses the same basic technique.



Parts express recommendations:

Home theater/stereo recommended alignments
• Sealed (home theater/music): 4 cubic ft. (net internal, not including driver) for an f3 of 31 Hz, f10 of 18 Hz with a Qtc of 0.72
• Sealed (music): 7 cubic ft. (net internal, not including driver) for an f3 of 31 Hz, f10 of 15.8 Hz with a Qtc of 0.62
• Vented (home theater): 8 cubic ft. (net internal, not including driver or vent) tuned to 20 Hz, with 3 flared vents 4" diameter by 28.5" long, for an f3 of 18 Hz
• Vented (infra-sub): 12 cubic ft. (net internal, not including driver or vent) tuned to 15.5 Hz, with 3 flared vents 4" diameter by 32" long, for an f3 of 15 Hz
• Infinite Baffle: Approved (reaction force cancellation recommended )


I built mine at 9.5 cf with 3 flared 4" vents 30". I was just being lazy and used these dimensions without running the specs (sort of a split between the '8cf and 12 cf') in a modeling program. I also had some physical constraints (limited opening width behind my screen wall) that I had to deal with.


Truthfully after hearing the vented, if you have the room I would HIGHLY recommend running 8cf+ vented.

Good luck,

~JH
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