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post #121 of 150 Unread 05-18-2017, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
You arent getting phase issues with a second order roll off on the half woofer?


Yes there are some unwanted interactions, I'm waiting for a 5mh inductor which will be here tomorrow and should suffice for a 6db slope
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post #122 of 150 Unread 05-19-2017, 12:51 AM
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What software are you using to design and model the crossover?

I see REW there, so thats not the answer I am looking for.

What freq are you planning on crossing over to the CD at?

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post #123 of 150 Unread 05-19-2017, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
What software are you using to design and model the crossover?

I see REW there, so thats not the answer I am looking for.

What freq are you planning on crossing over to the CD at?


I use REW and Omnimic for measurements and I'm modeling in WinPCD, CD will be XO around 1500hz, currently working with 18db slopes, nothing is finalized.
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post #124 of 150 Unread 05-19-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshadzi View Post
Currently a 3.5mh and an 80uf cap to roll it off around 250hz which plays a baffle step function as well. And thanks! =)
Looks like tuxedovic beat me to the punch. Which is:

I suggest eliminating the shunt capacitor and going to a larger (5-10 mH) series inductor for the lower woofer.

Using a two-pole network (inductor plus shunt capacitor) introduces excessive phase shift near that x/o point and can cause sharp cancellation dips there. Which is to say, once the lower woofer's relative phase shift approaches and exceeds 90 degrees (which is what happens passing the x/o point in a 2-pole network), the lower woofer, though attenuated somewhat, will be fighting the upper woofer.

With a single inductor sans shunt capacitor, the lower woofer's phase shift will increase gently and will not be fighting the upper woofer as the lower woofer rolls away.

(If you're building your own iron-core inductors, you can "tune" the inductance during design by sliding the core partially out, like a nuclear control rod.)
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post #125 of 150 Unread 05-19-2017, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Strafi Translam FaitalPro Tower Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post
Looks like tuxedovic beat me to the punch.

Thanks for the comments, see my reply above was just temporary, 4.7mh I ordered showed up today, will test that tonight, a 9.1mh indicator was just too big.



Thanks!
Javad

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post #126 of 150 Unread 05-19-2017, 02:54 PM
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Hi Javad,

I noticed you used a CLD method for your fatboys design on the baffle and another method inside the box. This design employs CLD on the end caps only. Could you comment on if you are able to hear or measure differences with/without the CLD baffle? I'm thinking to try the CLD baffle on a set of speakers I'm going to build but cannot determine if it would be worth the hassle. Also (if you don't mind) could you comment on the brand of the CLD glue, foil damping materials for the fatboys and the source for sorbothane for this project? Thanks so much for sharing your designs in such detail!

Thanks,

Pete
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post #127 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Little update, I've been working on the XO for the last week and I think I'm quite close to where I want to be, I've been using a combination of REW, Omnimic and PCD, as well as changing component values and measuring/listening. Slopes are 18db around 1500hz, with the .5 rolling off at around 250hz 6db with a 4.7mh inductor.

I wired up both speakers (which measure almost identically) and got to listen to them in stereo today, fun!



First impressions very dynamic and sharp, lively, smooth top end with no sibilance, and still has air and sparkle. Bass rolls off starting at 60hz but above that very fast and sharp bass from these pro 8" drivers. Probably never going to have that refined Scan Speak sound though.

I've been listening to my reference tracks as well as the MWAF tracks (man that Lorde song is a doozy!) and am quite pleased. Also got to hear them playing Money for Nothing at 112db/1 meter, wow, these things really crank with about 96db efficiency.

Also experimenting with finishes, I'm leaning towards spray Spar varnish, goes on really smooth and the stuff is tough as nails, here is a test piece with no grain filler, just clear gloss spar urethane over the 220grit finished wood. 3 coats no sanding



I'll break the cabinets down to raw wood this week and spend a few weeks on the clear coat process, stay tuned.

Thanks!

Javad
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post #128 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshadzi View Post
Little update, I've been working on the XO for the last week and I think I'm quite close to where I want to be, I've been using a combination of REW, Omnimic and PCD, as well as changing component values and measuring/listening. Slopes are 18db around 1500hz, with the .5 rolling off at around 250hz 6db with a 4.7mh inductor.

I wired up both speakers (which measure almost identically) and got to listen to them in stereo today, fun!



First impressions very dynamic and sharp, lively, smooth top end with no sibilance, and still has air and sparkle. Bass rolls off starting at 60hz but above that very fast and sharp bass from these pro 8" drivers. Probably never going to have that refined Scan Speak sound though.

I've been listening to my reference tracks as well as the MWAF tracks (man that Lorde song is a doozy!) and am quite pleased. Also got to hear them playing Money for Nothing at 112db/1 meter, wow, these things really crank with about 96db efficiency.

Also experimenting with finishes, I'm leaning towards spray Spar varnish, goes on really smooth and the stuff is tough as nails, here is a test piece with no grain filler, just clear gloss spar urethane over the 220grit finished wood. 3 coats no sanding



I'll break the cabinets down to raw wood this week and spend a few weeks on the clear coat process, stay tuned.

Thanks!

Javad
Very nice.

I have those woofers in an MTM for my rears. They are fantastic. They may not have the refinement of the Scanspeaks, but they will outgun them in the upper SPL levels for sure and remain very composed until your ears give out. Make no mistake, these are designed for north 100db output and they take it while smiling.

They will also loosen up on you a bit, I found the bass got a lot better over some time, those spiders are very stiff.

Personally I would do a darker stain then clear on top, that would set those speakers off! Boiled linseed oil maybe and when that dries try the clear. It will make the grain absolutely pop.
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post #129 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 05:41 PM
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Javad, what is that 3-way you have in the background there behind your Strafi's?

I am hoping there is a build thread on those they look really nice.

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post #130 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Very nice.

I have those woofers in an MTM for my rears. They are fantastic. They may not have the refinement of the Scanspeaks, but they will outgun them in the upper SPL levels for sure and remain very composed until your ears give out. Make no mistake, these are designed for north 100db output and they take it while smiling.

They will also loosen up on you a bit, I found the bass got a lot better over some time, those spiders are very stiff.

Personally I would do a darker stain then clear on top, that would set those speakers off! Boiled linseed oil maybe and when that dries try the clear. It will make the grain absolutely pop.


Of course I'm well aware of your project, saw them last year, first time I saw the 8PR200 and I was inspired, in Dec I modeled just about every 8" Pro woofer on the market and nothing compared to the 8PR in terms of Fs and efficiency =)

I'm leaning toward Minwax Natural stain which simply brings out the grain much like oil, then clear spar urethane, I really couldn't stand to cover up this wood with a stain or color, it's just too beautiful but I think the grain will really come out. This is a test piece with Crystalac grain filler used as well



Thanks Javs!

Javad
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post #131 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Javad, what is that 3-way you have in the background there behind your Strafi's?

I am hoping there is a build thread on those they look really nice.


You bet! Those were a Parts Express speaker design team project I did, see thread here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...river-15-3-way

and also see the videos I posted on YouTube so you can hear them, very fun speakers!
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post #132 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 09:05 PM
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Why would you finish these!! They already look amazing.


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post #133 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Why would you finish these!! They already look amazing.


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Hah, well they'll look even better not to mention to protect the wood and keep moisture out, I appreciate the sentiment though, I promise they'll look even better =)
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post #134 of 150 Unread 05-20-2017, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Hi Javad,

I noticed you used a CLD method for your fatboys design on the baffle and another method inside the box. This design employs CLD on the end caps only. Could you comment on if you are able to hear or measure differences with/without the CLD baffle? I'm thinking to try the CLD baffle on a set of speakers I'm going to build but cannot determine if it would be worth the hassle. Also (if you don't mind) could you comment on the brand of the CLD glue, foil damping materials for the fatboys and the source for sorbothane for this project? Thanks so much for sharing your designs in such detail!

Thanks,

Pete


Hey Pete happy to help!

I detail everything in my Fatboys build thread here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...-speaker-build. I use a different technique with polyurethane adhesive, it's a little involved but works really well. This is the foil CLD I used https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KIUDWES..._EIrizbT22Y5NQ

The other method I use in these Strafis, go back a ways and I cover the technique and materials, same as what I used on my Baronets build here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...r-build-thread

Sorbothane sheets are available from McMaster.com

And I use a mass loading technique in this build here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...r-build-thread

And you can see how I used extensive high density bracing in this build here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...er-towers.html

Basically all these techniques accomplish the same thing, they reduce the amplitude of acoustic output of the enclosure panels, with CLD you can get away with minimal bracing, but if you have plenty of room for bracing then CLD is not needed.

Every one of these enclosures are dead quiet, my final test is to play the speakers at 100db 1 meter and put my ear in each panel including the baffle (if possible), all these speakers easily pass that test with minimal sound with my ear touching the cabinet.

Let me know if I can help any further Pete,

Javad
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post #135 of 150 Unread Yesterday, 06:17 AM
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Can't wait to see them finished!


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Originally Posted by jshadzi View Post
Hey Pete happy to help!

I detail everything in my Fatboys build thread here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...-speaker-build. I use a different technique with polyurethane adhesive, it's a little involved but works really well. This is the foil CLD I used https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KIUDWES..._EIrizbT22Y5NQ

The other method I use in these Strafis, go back a ways and I cover the technique and materials, same as what I used on my Baronets build here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...r-build-thread

Sorbothane sheets are available from McMaster.com

And I use a mass loading technique in this build here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...r-build-thread

And you can see how I used extensive high density bracing in this build here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...er-towers.html

Basically all these techniques accomplish the same thing, they reduce the amplitude of acoustic output of the enclosure panels, with CLD you can get away with minimal bracing, but if you have plenty of room for bracing then CLD is not needed.

Every one of these enclosures are dead quiet, my final test is to play the speakers at 100db 1 meter and put my ear in each panel including the baffle (if possible), all these speakers easily pass that test with minimal sound with my ear touching the cabinet.

Let me know if I can help any further Pete,

Javad
Thanks for all of this detail. I've got some reading to do! Thx again.

Pete
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post #137 of 150 Unread Yesterday, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of this detail. I've got some reading to do! Thx again.

Pete


My pleasure! Exactly why I post this stuff, so others can share in what I'm learning *thumbsup*
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Strafi Translam FaitalPro Tower Build

Someday when I'm on my death bed and I recall the most incredible moments of my life, they'll be

1 - seeing my stunning wife walk down the aisle towards the pulpit at our wedding

2 - seeing each of my 4 children as they were born

3 - when I opened the letter from the IRS notifying me that the first top to bottom audit on my last 3 years taxes was over and I owed $0.

4 - the first time I accelerated from 0-60mph in under 2 seconds

5 - when I applied Minwax Natural stain to the Strafi speakers

Haha, boy was that satisfying!

That grain was there all along, so good to finally see it.

Ready to start finishing







2 coats of Minwax Natural







And first coat of clear, will put a second cost on and then sand with 400 between coats, thinking of doing 5 coats. I decided to skip the Crystalac, it was lightening the wood and I'm happy with how it looks so far.





Javad
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post #139 of 150 Unread Yesterday, 05:04 PM
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Nice speakerd, but I gptta know how you did 0-60 in 2 secs. That is rocket ship fast!

Ryan
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Nice speakerd, but I gptta know how you did 0-60 in 2 secs. That is rocket ship fast!


Hah, yea I've had the pleasure to build and drive some very fast cars over the years, here's one car we built, car had over 1000HP at the crank
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The speakers look amazing. Nice choice doing the natural stain.


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Hah, yea I've had the pleasure to build and drive some very fast cars over the years, here's one car we built, car had over 1000HP at the crank https://youtu.be/zPbBTBqffYA
Respect!

My first car was a B5 A4!

I have an 8v A3 now, and my RS3 Sedan arrives next month

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post #143 of 150 Unread Yesterday, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Respect!

My first car was a B5 A4!

I have an 8v A3 now, and my RS3 Sedan arrives next month


Nice! I have an RS3 on order for product development, and if you get European Car we're on the cover currently, our S3 won their Grand Prix http://www.superstreetonline.com/eve...-tire-2-0t-gp/
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Nice! I have an RS3 on order for product development, and if you get European Car we're on the cover currently, our S3 won their Grand Prix http://www.superstreetonline.com/eve...-tire-2-0t-gp/
You work for 034 Motorsports??

In what capacity?

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You must be single or retired I have 4 kids a wife and full time job. I get one hobby and thats it
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Strafi Translam FaitalPro Tower Build

Nice work
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You work for 034 Motorsports??

In what capacity?


Owner/President, definitely let me know if we can help with anything.
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You must be single or retired I have 4 kids a wife and full time job. I get one hobby and thats it


Hah not retired yet! I'm early 40's, I own and run a 35 employee manufacturing company, I have 4 kids under 10, married etc.

Fortunately one of my hobbies is how I make my living, speaker building definitely fills in the spare moments. My wife is very understanding and I sleep about 5-6 hours a night during these bigger projects which allows me to put in an extra 10 hours a week plus a weekend day, and I can easily take a day off from work too several times a month as I have a very good team. Key is making every minute of the day count.
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Ah, thats helps having your career be a hobby. I certainly make every minute count. No way to survive otherwise! But lately my speaker building hobby has morphed into a honey do list of house renovations... thats ok. I have 3 speaker projects on the go so I cant complain. She's very understanding.
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Did a quick sand with 400 and another coat this morning, I think I'll do 5 coats total and see how it looks, possibly more on the top and buff that out. I may still use the grain filler if things aren't smoothing out, it can be used between layers as well but it seems to lighten the wood which I don't like






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