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post #751 of 842 Old 05-18-2017, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Troll?
Ya Im trying to think of any dayton subs anyone has blown. Im sure theres some out there, but Im not aware of any. The demands of HT is different than what the car audio guys do. HT is more low frequency burts where thermal power handling is not as big of a concern.

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post #752 of 842 Old 05-18-2017, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Troll?

Troll?

And always someone worried about a neg post of a product they like lol. And oh yes, everyone runs to AVS forum to post that they blew there sub.................. With all the straight out harrassment on avs, lucky many post at all.

Almost all dayton coils are two layer. for low emf as they say lol, Well i have not seen an AVS member even recognize that emf can exist in subwoofers, so why would they buy products that brag low emf, when everyone I have seen on here has called it BS.

A woofer is a woofer. If you put more processing down low, your going to get more down low. Some woofers may respond more to certain frequencies, but this does not mean another subwoofer cannot do the same thing.

Also not all people on here are concerned about watching home movies and hearing shot gs.n bangs and back dialogue. Lots of two channel listeners also. Its a big field out there.

Some have all there subs on their units subwoofer outputs and have much less flexibility. Others like me run two drive racks with 16 outputs, and can tailor specific settings for all the subs they own.

Now obviously, just like BAss that hz said......... he likes this woofer as he wants something he can pound without worrying about bottoming out........ Well bottoming is pretty much the same as blowing, and im sure he can bottom those Dayton units no problem, as if I had them they be blown for sure. So those that have the Daytons have to have BASs that hz worries, of backing off on them so he does not blow them. Myself i do not worry about blowing my subs. They are all 4 layer coils of good size and will take the power i give them.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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post #753 of 842 Old 05-18-2017, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
Well i have not seen an AVS member even recognize that emf can exist in subwoofers...
Not sure what you're talking about.

Do you mean back-EMF?

Maybe you're saying electromotive force instead of BL, which creates EMF when current is applied?

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post #754 of 842 Old 05-18-2017, 11:00 PM
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This guy is a known to be special.

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post #755 of 842 Old 05-18-2017, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
This guy is a known to be special.
Yeah i noticed he was going off on an inuke thread.

Bottoming out is the same as blowing it up apparently...
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post #756 of 842 Old 05-18-2017, 11:28 PM
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Funny thing is a people use Dayton subs in there car.
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post #757 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 12:49 AM
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This guy is a known to be special.
I'm like WTF reading the last few comments then this turned it into ROFL

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post #758 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Troll?

Nope. Cerwin Vega amps and car speakers "In da HOUSE"



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post #759 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 10:59 AM
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I think it's funny how he's comparing the Dayton brand, not a specific sub or anything. and is mad because their subs can bottom or blow...which every single sub falls into one of those categories.

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post #760 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
This guy is a known to be special.
Yes I am one of the few whose head is not so big that he thinks everyone else must learn from him.

Yes what other kind of emf is there in subwoofers? Forward emf? LOL.

Here is a nice 4 layer 4 inch coil. Now if I was worried about blowing my subs, this is an easy way to ensure you get them back up. Buy having some spare coils on hand.

Wow the one liner posts never end on AVS

It really is a laughable brag on the part of Dayton selling subwoofers. The first rule of everything... turn a negative into
a positive.

Obviously the smaller the coil and magnet structure the less prone it will be to generating back emf, So its a good way to advertise , smaller is better.
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A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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post #761 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Nope. Cerwin Vega amps and car speakers "In da HOUSE"

it's been known to happen......
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post #762 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
.... Yes what other kind of emf is there in subwoofers? Forward emf? LOL....

Yes, actually.

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post #763 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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That room looks like TheEar's. Stacked misc drivers, audiopipe etc.

I'm not worried about my Daytons, I'm worried about my LMS-18's and Mal-21's, they can't be replaced and i like nuclear bass. (Not a good combo.)
I could turn it down, but who wants to do that!
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post #764 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
Yes what other kind of emf is there in subwoofers? Forward emf?

As a matter of fact, yes; that's what makes the current go through the voice coil.

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post #765 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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It's getting further away. LOL
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post #766 of 842 Old 05-19-2017, 08:19 PM
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post #767 of 842 Old 05-20-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
That room looks like TheEar's. Stacked misc drivers, audiopipe etc.

I'm not worried about my Daytons, I'm worried about my LMS-18's and Mal-21's, they can't be replaced and i like nuclear bass. (Not a good combo.)
I could turn it down, but who wants to do that!
I kind of got that impression from you...... For you money is not so much part of the object, as it is for me.
I like to do my best to have long lasting gear that can take punishment. If you could easily replace your units,
so much for the backing off.............. as you would just buy new ones. I hate having to replace stuff or worry about backing off on subs. With the home theatre geared subs, bottoming out seems to be a common thing due to the gearing towards a narrower field of Bass in the lower regions.

Another member switched to Alpine SWR 15s and said he liked them better and they never bottomed out. Despite he did not understand the difference between comb filtering, and intermodulation distortion, He was happier with the Alpines. I remember LTD02 was on that thread also. He was using peavy cs 4080hz amps bridged to each pair , for 4 total subs, Said he didnt want to use all of them and would sell. They were 15s of the same brand bass the hz is worried about losing.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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post #768 of 842 Old 05-20-2017, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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It made it as far as the west coast last night, surprisingly,
but it is now stuck in the airport for the weekend.
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post #769 of 842 Old 05-20-2017, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I kind of got that impression from you...... For you money is not so much part of the object, as it is for me.
I like to do my best to have long lasting gear that can take punishment. If you could easily replace your units,
so much for the backing off.............. as you would just buy new ones. I hate having to replace stuff or worry about backing off on subs. With the home theatre geared subs, bottoming out seems to be a common thing due to the gearing towards a narrower field of Bass in the lower regions.

Another member switched to Alpine SWR 15s and said he liked them better and they never bottomed out. Despite he did not understand the difference between comb filtering, and intermodulation distortion, He was happier with the Alpines. I remember LTD02 was on that thread also. He was using peavy cs 4080hz amps bridged to each pair , for 4 total subs, Said he didnt want to use all of them and would sell. They were 15s of the same brand bass the hz is worried about losing.
32's 24's, 21's and subwoofers like the RF-19, XXX-18 and LMS-18 make woofers like the Dayton 8's to 15's look silly (all types).
I treat the UM-15's in my mains like "beefy woofers" rather than "subwoofers". They aren't in the same class. The UM-18 is much closer, that is one exception.
I like my subs being flat to 3-5hz, and so for me... the most important aspect of a subwoofer is xmech and displacement.
For this reason I'd never use anything less than those types of drivers (at least below 50hz that is.)
For frequencies above 50hz only ~96-101db/w/m drivers should be used. It just makes sense to.
Below ~50hz it is ALL about xmax and xmech, and the diameter of the cone. (The box/motor and amp help too, but that is secondary IMO.)

When cranking, I'd rather listen to 100% THD and a weak motor design than clacking.

This craphammer-24 has lots of displacement, xmech and power handling for cheap, which is exactly what I wanted.
I will measure it, but I really don't care what it measures like, to be honest...

It seems to have shockingly low distortion free-air, which is a plus.
While it might not be an optimal motor I think it will do "fine" for how I'm using them; more-than fine by the looks of its free-air performance.
If/when I want to hear some "musicality" I will just listen to my HD800 headphones, or my system at a much lower SPL with the craphammers disabled (if they get in the way...)

Owning the LMS-18's are kind of like owning the last Unicorn Lambo on the planet; they are great, but you can't drive them over speed bumps at Walmart like you can a 20 year old beater truck.
I need a mule that can break its back and die on the way up to the peak of Mt Louderest with the afterburners permanently-on. LOL!
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post #770 of 842 Old 05-20-2017, 02:34 PM
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So when are people here going to start guessing at the parameters? With all this activity, I thought why not ?

@BTH Z, can you explain a bit more about what is shockingly low distortion that you say about these?

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post #771 of 842 Old 05-21-2017, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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The mechanical noise is the lowest I have ever heard.
Good ventilation behind the spider and pole piece.

The LMS-18 has a titanium former and metal cone so it whisks heat away a bit faster.
This 24 has 33% more xmech than the LMS-18 though.

Put a CF cone on it and it would be quite the woofer for the money... wonder how much extra they'd charge.
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post #772 of 842 Old 05-21-2017, 03:36 PM
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The mechanical noise is the lowest I have ever heard.
Good ventilation behind the spider and pole piece.

The LMS-18 has a titanium former and metal cone so it whisks heat away a bit faster.
This 24 has 33% more xmech than the LMS-18 though.

Put a CF cone on it and it would be quite the woofer for the money... wonder how much extra they'd charge.
by all metrics, a good solidly built driver.
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post #773 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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It's now on a truck. Not out for delivery yet though.
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post #774 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 10:07 AM
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Just hope the truck isn't going back to Florida.

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post #775 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
32's 24's, 21's and subwoofers like the RF-19, XXX-18 and LMS-18 make woofers like the Dayton 8's to 15's look silly (all types).
I treat the UM-15's in my mains like "beefy woofers" rather than "subwoofers". They aren't in the same class. The UM-18 is much closer, that is one exception.
I like my subs being flat to 3-5hz, and so for me... the most important aspect of a subwoofer is xmech and displacement.
For this reason I'd never use anything less than those types of drivers (at least below 50hz that is.)
For frequencies above 50hz only ~96-101db/w/m drivers should be used. It just makes sense to.
Below ~50hz it is ALL about xmax and xmech, and the diameter of the cone. (The box/motor and amp help too, but that is secondary IMO.)

When cranking, I'd rather listen to 100% THD and a weak motor design than clacking.

This craphammer-24 has lots of displacement, xmech and power handling for cheap, which is exactly what I wanted.
I will measure it, but I really don't care what it measures like, to be honest...

It seems to have shockingly low distortion free-air, which is a plus.
While it might not be an optimal motor I think it will do "fine" for how I'm using them; more-than fine by the looks of its free-air performance.
If/when I want to hear some "musicality" I will just listen to my HD800 headphones, or my system at a much lower SPL with the craphammers disabled (if they get in the way...)

Owning the LMS-18's are kind of like owning the last Unicorn Lambo on the planet; they are great, but you can't drive them over speed bumps at Walmart like you can a 20 year old beater truck.
I need a mule that can break its back and die on the way up to the peak of Mt Louderest with the afterburners permanently-on. LOL!
On my listing of wanting to try yet.
Re audio XXX
Orion xtr pro........

Good post. My last favorite purchase is actually the Audiopipe txx Bd3 15s. Which is why i mentioned 4 of them vs the 24.

The user I mentioned dumped his lms 15s For the way cheaper Alpine.

My Rockford T2s are now discontinued and not replaceable. Got the spare set of cones

I hate they way they seem to disc good products. Noticed even Daytons getting the dc at parts express. All 2.5 inch two layer coils except the 18 at 3 inch two layer... Sort of funny they use such wimpy coils seeing as double the wire would probably cost them two cents more. .

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

Last edited by johnplayerson; 05-23-2017 at 10:57 AM.
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post #776 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 11:19 AM
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Well................. AS i speak,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, looks like Dayton got smart.............. the new 18s have 4 layer coils, for high power handling.................... they dropped the low back emf..................... sell lol.

Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 ohm

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.
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post #777 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 11:24 AM
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Lol. Not "new". The 18HO has been out for a while now. Also, the HO series has had 4-layer VC's for even longer. The 18" was the hold out that took even longer to come out. And that was a long time ago even.

If you hadn't been spending all your time bashing Dayton instead of keeping up with their products....
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post #778 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 11:50 AM
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I sure do like my Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofers.
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post #779 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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They finally updated the tracker. The delivery date is thursday.
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post #780 of 842 Old 05-23-2017, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
Well................. AS i speak,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, looks like Dayton got smart.............. the new 18s have 4 layer coils, for high power handling.................... they dropped the low back emf..................... sell lol.

Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 ohm
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Lol. Not "new". The 18HO has been out for a while now. Also, the HO series has had 4-layer VC's for even longer. The 18" was the hold out that took even longer to come out. And that was a long time ago even.

If you hadn't been spending all your time bashing Dayton instead of keeping up with their products....

Haha, yeah, they have been around since 2012 for god's sake. Hearing a friends DIY Dayton 18HO dual opposed sub compared to my dual Seaton Submersives is what motivated me to go DIY with a bunch of 18's. The Submersives are awesome, but if I could get that same sound plus a lot more headroom for the same price, why not?

This guy talks like he knows of what he speaks. I don't think that's right...





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