Tactile slam nausea-inducing brown notes... - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Tactile slam nausea-inducing brown notes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Here are the only pictures I've ever taken of the subriser. No drawings. Designed it in my head.






I think this is a cool idea that some might have missed -transducer and near field in one project. I'm surprised more folks here who are into the tactile "slam" stuff don't copy Scott's design.
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post #2 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 11:24 AM
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
I think this is a cool idea that some might have missed -transducer and near field in one project. I'm surprised more folks here who are into the tactile "slam" stuff don't copy Scott's design.

What's that you say?







Ported too.
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 12:34 PM
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If I had more head clearance under my sofits I for sure would have done this.
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post #5 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 01:05 PM
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If I ever get into a dedicated room, I'll definitely consider doing this instead of right behind me. A nice space saver for very nearfield vs a boxes directly behind the seating

@Scott Simonian Since you've experienced Archaea's and Carps sealed nearfields right behind there seats, how does the experience compare to yours being right underneath you? I would think TR would probably have a little more up and down movement opposed to forward and back right? If so, how noticeable is the difference? Do you prefer one over the other or are they both pretty similar feeling? Also how about the slam (not talking about TR/shake here, but brute slam that you can feel in your chest, gut etc) from underneath vs behind (from a direct PR, or whatever you want to call it)?

Hope you don't mind all the questions, I'm just very curious since I'll never be without nearfields and may do something like this in the future.
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post #6 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 01:23 PM
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I've actually thought about doing this to free up space in the back of my small room. Glad to see that others have already tried it.

Question for those who've tried this. With the seat directly over the subs, is the bass localized?
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post #7 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 04:55 PM
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post #8 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thucker View Post
I've actually thought about doing this to free up space in the back of my small room. Glad to see that others have already tried it.

Question for those who've tried this. With the seat directly over the subs, is the bass localized?
No more than anything else NF. In fact is might even be less localized since it feels like it's coming from the actual seat lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #9 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
No more than anything else NF. In fact is might even be less localized since it feels like it's coming from the actual seat lol
Soooooo Ghettooooo....

I've been thinking of doing this for some time....

7' ceiling height sucks and I'm afraid of falling out of chair after a few beers and a good show...
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post #10 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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You can under build the joists for the riser so that it is more easily exited by the drivers which if I remember correctly, is what Scott did. This gains the advantage of a suspended floor as well as the particle velocity from the drivers pushing air that closely into the couch, exiting it and it adds SPL to the room. Extremely cool shaky, shaky for cheap if you ask me. Thumbs up for a cool idea.
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post #11 of 20 Old 04-18-2017, 08:00 PM
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This thread got me thinking about one of these:
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And how there's gotta be a subwoofer project in it.
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post #12 of 20 Old 04-19-2017, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Deplace View Post
This thread got me thinking about one of these:
Attachment 2090705
And how there's gotta be a subwoofer project in it.
Assuming open baffle mounting, when the woofer lowered pressure on the body and thus pulling on the ear drum, it would be increasing pressure on the outside of the ear drum. automatic XdB bass boost!

:P
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post #13 of 20 Old 04-19-2017, 12:17 PM
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Thanks @Shreds for the shout out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
If I ever get into a dedicated room, I'll definitely consider doing this instead of right behind me. A nice space saver for very nearfield vs a boxes directly behind the seating

@Scott Simonian Since you've experienced Archaea's and Carps sealed nearfields right behind there seats, how does the experience compare to yours being right underneath you? I would think TR would probably have a little more up and down movement opposed to forward and back right? If so, how noticeable is the difference? Do you prefer one over the other or are they both pretty similar feeling? Also how about the slam (not talking about TR/shake here, but brute slam that you can feel in your chest, gut etc) from underneath vs behind (from a direct PR, or whatever you want to call it)?

Hope you don't mind all the questions, I'm just very curious since I'll never be without nearfields and may do something like this in the future.
I don't mind at all. Good questions!

I should preface that these are all opinions and preference. Not real objective data over which method is "best".

Yes, I noticed a difference in the feel of it. With ULF I get a nice up and down motion that feels natural. A "trampoline" effect. If it is as simple as the orientation of the driver related to the seat then...awesome. It is difficult to make a good comparison to other systems as I've had tons of time in my room and only brief moments with theirs. All of their setups are good but different. Archaea's system in general is very well balanced and nothing really stands out, in a good way. The effect is natural sounding and feeling. Carp has tons of different settings when he plays stuff so... it can go any way you want it to. He has both Crowson and nearfield 18 on the MLP. It can be pretty intense! I like. Differences mainly come from how they are configured.

The subriser is also pretty punchy too! I started out with an 80hz cross and let it all in. Was really awesome but after a while I got tired of it and also made some other changes to my system, one of which was different Xover for other speakers which then affected the response to the riser. After all the changes I now have it at 25hz and really use it to supplement the ULF response at the seat than the entire subwoofer bandwidth.

The subriser is a great alternative to the traditional bolt-on transducer system. Though it comes with it's own drawbacks. One has to weigh those pro's and con's against the other solutions out there.

I like the effect enough that I would do it again in the future. I think it combines the best of the nearfield feel and the BK/Crowson feel all in one package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTstang View Post
What's that you say?

Ported too.
Nice!

I wonder how that would feel if it would be different from a sealed riser.
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post #14 of 20 Old 04-19-2017, 12:41 PM
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Looks Great!
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post #15 of 20 Old 04-19-2017, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I don't mind at all. Good questions!

I should preface that these are all opinions and preference. Not real objective data over which method is "best".

Yes, I noticed a difference in the feel of it. With ULF I get a nice up and down motion that feels natural. A "trampoline" effect. If it is as simple as the orientation of the driver related to the seat then...awesome. It is difficult to make a good comparison to other systems as I've had tons of time in my room and only brief moments with theirs. All of their setups are good but different. Archaea's system in general is very well balanced and nothing really stands out, in a good way. The effect is natural sounding and feeling. Carp has tons of different settings when he plays stuff so... it can go any way you want it to. He has both Crowson and nearfield 18 on the MLP. It can be pretty intense! I like. Differences mainly come from how they are configured.

The subriser is also pretty punchy too! I started out with an 80hz cross and let it all in. Was really awesome but after a while I got tired of it and also made some other changes to my system, one of which was different Xover for other speakers which then affected the response to the riser. After all the changes I now have it at 25hz and really use it to supplement the ULF response at the seat than the entire subwoofer bandwidth.

The subriser is a great alternative to the traditional bolt-on transducer system. Though it comes with it's own drawbacks. One has to weigh those pro's and con's against the other solutions out there.

I like the effect enough that I would do it again in the future. I think it combines the best of the nearfield feel and the BK/Crowson feel all in one package.

Thanks for your thoughts on it all! I enjoyed the read and makes a lot of sense.

It's interesting that you say "Trampoline" effect. I'm glad to hear you say that because I love that feel. My NF's are right behind me, so I think that's why I really like having 2 BK LFE's bolted to the frame right underneath me in addition to help augment. The BK's really help bring on that effect. I've always kind of likened it to the "Trampoline" effect like you say.

It's also interesting that you say you have it crossed at 25hz. I've found that this area (from out 15-30hz ish and where the BK's are there strongest) is where I get that Trampoline effect the best. I can tell with test tones and certain movie clips, subjectively and objectively. A couple that come to mind are Pacific Rim when that robot is stomping down the street in the city and Star Wars: TFA the when they steel the Jericho and it hits and skids along the ground. I VibSensed those scenes a while back because I liked the effect so much. And guess what ...that's about where it's the strongest in that 20-25hz area.

I did a bunch of them in the VS thread a while back mainly for ULF scenes that go way lower, but here are these two that I was talking about ...

Pacific Rim


Star Wars:TFA


I'm sure there are pros and cons like you say, but I think the Subriser could work great for me some day since I know I like the effect of NF plus BK/Crowsons feel. So yeah ....maybe an 'all in one package' that doesn't take up any space, as long you have enough room above you after its built. That way every seat can get in on all the goodness

Again, thanks for you thoughts ...much appreciated!
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post #16 of 20 Old 04-20-2017, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Nice!

I wonder how that would feel if it would be different from a sealed riser.
My room isn't together yet, so I have no frame of reference, and even when the room comes together, I still won't have a frame of reference for a sealed riser sub. I will say that I am only using HT18s, so I am probably leaving quite a bit on the table (or floor as the case may be)
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post #17 of 20 Old 04-20-2017, 06:59 AM
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I've bookmarked this thread for reference. I'd LOVE to do that to my sectional and do 2 18"s under each part of the L hehehe, but raising it up that much wouldn't work right in my setup. If I thought I would have a shot, I'd totally do it and my wife would LOVE it because then no big sub boxes anywhere (noticeable)

I will just have to live with the 4 x 12 Infinity setup I have firing right behind one of the sections into the couch.

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post #18 of 20 Old 04-21-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Would like to see a couch with onboard subs.

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I am in the planning stage....
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Link to budget Home Theater build

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...i-version.html
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post #19 of 20 Old 04-22-2017, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Thanks for your thoughts on it all! I enjoyed the read and makes a lot of sense.

It's interesting that you say "Trampoline" effect. I'm glad to hear you say that because I love that feel. My NF's are right behind me, so I think that's why I really like having 2 BK LFE's bolted to the frame right underneath me in addition to help augment. The BK's really help bring on that effect. I've always kind of likened it to the "Trampoline" effect like you say.

It's also interesting that you say you have it crossed at 25hz. I've found that this area (from out 15-30hz ish and where the BK's are there strongest) is where I get that Trampoline effect the best. I can tell with test tones and certain movie clips, subjectively and objectively. A couple that come to mind are Pacific Rim when that robot is stomping down the street in the city and Star Wars: TFA the when they steel the Jericho and it hits and skids along the ground. I VibSensed those scenes a while back because I liked the effect so much. And guess what ...that's about where it's the strongest in that 20-25hz area.

I did a bunch of them in the VS thread a while back mainly for ULF scenes that go way lower, but here are these two that I was talking about ...

Pacific Rim


Star Wars:TFA


I'm sure there are pros and cons like you say, but I think the Subriser could work great for me some day since I know I like the effect of NF plus BK/Crowsons feel. So yeah ....maybe an 'all in one package' that doesn't take up any space, as long you have enough room above you after its built. That way every seat can get in on all the goodness

Again, thanks for you thoughts ...much appreciated!
It is interesting that you mention the 15 to 30 Hz area. Sometimes we get so focused on less than 20 Hz output that we forget how much there is between 20-40 Hz. This frequency range is very significant for nearfield subs and TT's. Also, this is a range that a lot of our subs will have the best performance and minimal strain on the system.
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-22-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
It is interesting that you mention the 15 to 30 Hz area. Sometimes we get so focused on less than 20 Hz output that we forget how much there is between 20-40 Hz. This frequency range is very significant for nearfield subs and TT's. Also, this is a range that a lot of our subs will have the best performance and minimal strain on the system.
Totally agree! And as much as I love the NF's for that amazing and fun wobble stuff down real low, that 20-40hz area is fantastic as well and right in that range that can feel so powerful. Those two scenes that I posted are loads of fun for this IMO!
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