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post #91 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 02:03 AM
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@imagic nice article! Maybe it will bring a few new members over to the dark side/ DIY Forum
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post #92 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by esappy View Post
But if @imagic can continue to get news like this on the front page where everyone will see it, then that may spur more interest in people who don't go to the DIY forums where they can be directed to threads like this and get addicted. It only takes one ember to start a forest fire.
Yes more people will see it and would find it interesting but the reality is most are not looking to spend more than 2000$ on a sub, and that is a complete one. If new guys were interested enough in this to buy it and build their own enclosure based on what was posted in the news section then it is likely they would ask for help, at that point not only would the costs mount with materials for enclosure (and the time/effort to build it) but also the appropriate amp. Of course if said member were to make a thread asking for help many here would just tell them to buy multiple cheaper drivers, for equal or more displacement, at which point that member may abandon this driver. This driver is for those who don't mind paying extra in a commercial offering or for the DIY guys who are not as value sensitive or just those who like unique drivers or those who are space limited as well and those who care about below 40Hz. I can see DSS offering these in a large ported box to offer competition to the JTR 4000. Like I said most are looking for value and don't want to loose themselves too deeply into this hobby. Personally at this price I would just buy the RF or Funk UH drivers, if I had to buy an expensive air pump. If there is a large diameter system I am interested in, that would be the M Force. It doesn't get much press here due to being expensive,harder to obtain and not ideal for below 20Hz. IMO, YMMV.
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post #93 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Link should be there now... and yeah it comes here. I trust you guys.
How about a link to the Stereo Integrity site in the article? Or is that not normal practice? Just stood out to me that there wasn't one.

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post #94 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
How about a link to the Stereo Integrity site in the article? Or is that not normal practice? Just stood out to me that there wasn't one.
Done.
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post #95 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 09:53 AM
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I would think Data-bass is the best thing that's happened for speaker designers. Free bench-marking and free advertisement if you have something worth flexing about. Bench-marking forwards design and progress.
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post #96 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 10:21 AM
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At this level of performance, shouldn't more attention be paid to the cone material? I mean, what's the point of having an insanely huge cone and motor if the cone itself is just going to start warping at high levels? I'm not saying the cone is made with cheap materials or anything, but I went to the product page to find out what it's made out of and I didn't see it even mentioned.
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post #97 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
First, my comment as in relation to this particular 4000w monster. I don't really see anyone spending $2500 for this beast then feeding it less than half its power handling from an iNuke. It is like buying the performance version of a car model that makes 600hp but then running it on super low octane fuel so it only makes 300hp, might as well just saved half the cost of the car and bought the one that made 300hp unless you just prefer show to go.

The iNuke 6000 will get you in the neighborhood of 1300=1400 wpc with both channels driven @4 ohms so it isn't far off the PE of the HST-11 but if I were spending $1100 for a pair of drivers I would look for something that could give each a full 2K which means venturing outside the iNuke family. The iNukes are great for the money and pair very well with many of the low cost 18s and smaller drivers. When you start talking about higher power handling drivers like the one in this topic you start leaving a lot of meat on the bone using lower end amps. I know it may just be 2-3 dB here or there (on something like the HST-11 more for the SHS) but if one is willing to give that up there are usually cheaper driver options available to allow similar numbers for much less money. BTW the HST-11 is a really cool driver but generally meant for very small sealed applications and in those cases power is definitely your friend.
Yeah, for this particular project I max out at 1.5cu ft. Would the iNuke 6000 be suitable to power 2 HST-11's? You may have covered that bit I got a little lost at the "wpc"

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post #98 of 335 Old 05-06-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Yeah, for this particular project I max out at 1.5cu ft. Would the iNuke 6000 be suitable to power 2 HST-11's? You may have covered that bit I got a little lost at the "wpc"
As budget amps go, yes. You will get about 1400 watts per channel @4 ohms with both channels driven (closer to 2500 wpc peak) from a Inuke 6000.
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post #99 of 335 Old 05-07-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by PsychoM3 View Post
You will get about 1400 watts per channel @4 ohms with both channels driven (closer to 2500 wpc peak) from a Inuke 6000.
Where are you getting 1400?

If it's the long-term rms, it's needlessly stringent.

I thought it had been tested at quite a bit more than that.

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post #100 of 335 Old 05-07-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Where are you getting 1400?

If it's the long-term rms, it's needlessly stringent.

I thought it had been tested at quite a bit more than that.
Without going back and searching the numbers are from the tests on one of the pro audio sites and lukemadman's numbers posted on the databass forum (not sure if he also posted them here or not). They are indeed long term numbers and the iNukes will peak at about twice their RMS numbers (which is of course pretty normal). I agree it may be a conservative approach but the driver in question can take 2000 watts rms and no iNuke can provide this. If one makes a considered decision to pair them that is fine. In this case the HST-11 is near unique for a HT oriented driver in that it is small but still has a lot of excursion and power handling. If he was looking at larger drivers he might have cheaper options if he didn't need the high PE but in this case the HST-11 may be his only choice even if he doesn't plan to be able to apply full power.
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post #101 of 335 Old 05-07-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Where are you getting 1400?

If it's the long-term rms, it's needlessly stringent.

I thought it had been tested at quite a bit more than that.
It will burst more but won't hold it for more than a few milliseconds. We had it tested holding about 1400rms at 20hz for 6 seconds.

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post #102 of 335 Old 05-07-2017, 12:05 PM
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post #103 of 335 Old 05-07-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Where are you getting 1400?

If it's the long-term rms, it's needlessly stringent.

I thought it had been tested at quite a bit more than that.
nu6000 will output 2400rms continuous, and about 3000 for very short bursts. Total output, not per channel.
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post #104 of 335 Old 05-07-2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
At this level of performance, shouldn't more attention be paid to the cone material? I mean, what's the point of having an insanely huge cone and motor if the cone itself is just going to start warping at high levels? I'm not saying the cone is made with cheap materials or anything, but I went to the product page to find out what it's made out of and I didn't see it even mentioned.
The cone is a mixture of paper pulp and other glass fiber materials. The cone is not thin and does not "warp" at high levels.
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post #105 of 335 Old 05-07-2017, 06:50 PM
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thanks everyone for the NU6000 test info; I stand corrected
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post #106 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 07:44 AM
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These things 'r purdy......
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post #107 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post
The cone is a mixture of paper pulp and other glass fiber materials. The cone is not thin and does not "warp" at high levels.
That must be some amazing paper.
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post #108 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 10:25 AM
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You do know a lot of high power subwoofer drivers use paper cones, right?
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post #109 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
SI drivers ......I'd be willing to bet the results of the testing definitely aided in sales.
...
My buddy bought two of his 24" drivers after studying the data-bass tests. I am waithing for one to arrive.
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post #110 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
You do know a lot of high power subwoofer drivers use paper cones, right?

Yep, paper is made from wood, and it's hard to beat wood fibers for (bending) stiffness/mass ratio; I think only carbon fiber does unless you go to sandwich construction.

Now that I think about it, cellulose contains a good amount of carbon, so you could say that paper is a carbonaceous fiber.

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post #111 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 12:49 PM
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That must be some amazing paper.
It is.
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post #112 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
You do know a lot of high power subwoofer drivers use paper cones, right?
That's kind of like buying a Ferrari and saying that a $500 set of replacement tires is OK because "all tires are made with rubber, right?"
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post #113 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 01:56 PM
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No, not really like that.
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post #114 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 02:10 PM
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Wow! That's is an incredible subwoofer. Thanks for posting the link. "1.5 lb voice coil"
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post #115 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
That's kind of like buying a Ferrari and saying that a $500 set of replacement tires is OK because "all tires are made with rubber, right?"
Considering how badly they have beaten the hell out of the HS24, I think you may be yelling about nothing. If you knew how many high end drivers are made with pressed paper cones, you'd probably fall over from shock.

Pressed treated paper is actually quite tough, how weak paper by itself is.
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post #116 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 02:32 PM
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No, not really like that.
You're probably right. You can buy a $100,000 car and easily put on different tires if the ones included aren't up to the task of dealing with the high-performance of the rest of the vehicle or the duress you put them through.
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post #117 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 02:35 PM
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No, not really like that.
This is what happens when articles get posted to the front page
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post #118 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 02:36 PM
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Why are you so convinced that this paper-based cone won't hold up?
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post #119 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 02:37 PM
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This is what happens when articles get posted to the front page
Seriously.
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post #120 of 335 Old 05-08-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
That's kind of like buying a Ferrari and saying that a $500 set of replacement tires is OK because "all tires are made with rubber, right?"
If you think about it you made a good point though it supports an alternate point than the one I think you meant to make. The highest performance tires in the world, Moto GP and F1 as examples are made of "rubber". The same general substance used for racing tires for over 100 years, because it simply works. This is a similar situation "paper" simply works as a driver cone and has for many decades but it isn't the exact same paper today as 50 years ago just like the "rubber" in race tires is different from the rubber from the same time period.

We do have a nice choice of exotic cone materials brought to us by the constantly evolving science of material design but not a single one stands head and shoulders above any other including old school materials like silk and paper. Each material brings pros and cons to the table. Economics dictate that very large cones are made of a very short list of materials and you ain't gonna see beryllium or ceramic 24" sub cones. Just don't lose track of the fact that though it may not sound sexy paper cones continue to evolve and is a wholly legitimate choice
as a high end driver cone, though it might not make you all warm and fuzzy inside compared to a carbon/unobtanium sandwich construction that you spend more for than a new car.
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