The DIYSG Magnum 12 General Discussion Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 74 Old 08-10-2017, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
A speaker with two Magnum-12's flanking an 8", 10", or 12" coaxial. Or a single Magnum-12 and single coaxial.

An old school speaker similar to the old JBL L112, Pioneer S-910, or Cerwin Vegas. A high end version with a ribbon.

Midbass modules.
I'd love to see a kit with a coaxial for these, especially for a center. More Mag 12's the better lol.

Also, a version with a good Ribbon would make a lot of people happy. There are some people who refuse CD's and won't do anything other than AMT or Ribbon.

A dual Mag 12 Titan-esq kit? holy cow! that will be a BEAST.
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post #32 of 74 Old 08-10-2017, 11:49 PM
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Throwing around a couple of nearfield ideas. All at 500watts, designs were done to make sure of max excursion.

1st pic, white 2 drivers and red 4 - These are what I'm considering the most, the 2 is realistic but so is the 4, only being slightly more complicated and 3x the volume . I could do the 2 driver and have 2 horns or LLTS to cover the more extremes. That would probably be more ideal since I'll most likely want to cover sub 20hz content.

2nd 6 drivers in a box that would be 50"x50"x24.25"

3rd what I currently have (2x1.77 ported to 42~ hz).
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post #33 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 07:15 AM
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Just remember that these weren't really designed to be "subwoofers".

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post #34 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Certainly fine with me.

The dual 12" Titan was thought up over a year ago along with the 615 but we chose to start with the 15" first. We were reluctant to do a dual Magnum-12 model because the cost is a bit high due to the woofers. The single 12" woofer model would likely be built more, but who knows.

Whenever these are available, I will be buying. I have the itch to upgrade my Cheap Thrills which are more than adequate, but the heart wants what the heart wants. Let me know when you need an early adopter!

Also, theoretically speaking, @tuxedocivic and @mtg90 , for a centre channel, I would likely want to keep the baffle as short as possible.....would orienting the woofers horizontally cause any issues since they would be crossed low (I imagine ~300hz like the 15 in the 615) as I would want to place them on top of a sub, but keep the waveguides at ear height or thereabouts?
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post #35 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 07:43 AM
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If we're putting in requests, I wouldn't mind seeing a SEOS24 with one of the big JBL CDs and dual Magnums

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post #36 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 08:02 AM
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If we're putting in requests, I wouldn't mind seeing a SEOS24 with one of the big JBL CDs and dual Magnums
Haha, Like a giant 88-special....that would be awesome!
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post #37 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuddyguy View Post
Also, theoretically speaking, @tuxedocivic and @mtg90 , for a centre channel, I would likely want to keep the baffle as short as possible.....would orienting the woofers horizontally cause any issues since they would be crossed low (I imagine ~300hz like the 15 in the 615) as I would want to place them on top of a sub, but keep the waveguides at ear height or thereabouts?

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If we're putting in requests, I wouldn't mind seeing a SEOS24 with one of the big JBL CDs and dual Magnums
Both of these options are possible. The side by side woofers may make for a different sound signature compared to the L&R with the woofers stacked. Mostly because both woofers would be floor loaded. Might be better off with an AT screen or a design that can be rotated.
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post #38 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 08:28 AM
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Looks like this is picking up traction pretty fast. NICE!! If anyone might chime in but whats the cost of just the speaker. Just so we get more or less of an idea.


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post #39 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Just remember that these weren't really designed to be "subwoofers".
I agree, i think i was a little overly optimistic with a 2.5cuft 24hz cab tune on mine, but they are the only low end in my system and they are spectacular. (having 3 helps i'm sure too)

being lazy, i haven't build cabs for my 4x1262w's staring at me in my office, but the fact that the magnums are holding their own, i haven't really felt any pressure to. they absolutely sound amazing rounding out my LCR fusion 8s
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post #40 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny P View Post
Looks like this is picking up traction pretty fast. NICE!! If anyone might chime in but whats the cost of just the speaker. Just so we get more or less of an idea.


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Cost of the driver? Around $160. They only speaker thats been designed with it is the Maximus 12. Those are around $500. The pricing is on the website. The driver can be hard to find which is why I explained where it is in the video.
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post #41 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by datrumole View Post
I agree, i think i was a little overly optimistic with a 2.5cuft 24hz cab tune on mine, but they are the only low end in my system and they are spectacular. (having 3 helps i'm sure too)

being lazy, i haven't build cabs for my 4x1262w's staring at me in my office, but the fact that the magnums are holding their own, i haven't really felt any pressure to. they absolutely sound amazing rounding out my LCR fusion 8s
I know these weren't designed to be subs, which is why its kind of amazing that they can hold their own as low tuned subs while still maintaining a healthy mid bass hump.
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post #42 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 11:16 AM
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The Titan-612DC design (which is the name I've been using for this one) should be pretty unique. The DC stands for dual configurable. My idea was to make everything modular, you have two woofer boxes and the waveguide box and you can configure them almost any way you like (also makes shipping easier):

TMWW:


WTMW vertical:



WWTM (in case you want to stack it on of a sub but still have the waveguide ear height):


WTMW horizontal:


You could even stack both woofers side by side under the waveguide or one to the side and one above.

The boxes I am working with are actually pretty compact sealed enclosures, the depth is only 8" so it's very low profile. F3 in that enclosure is about 70hz though you should be able to use a crossover down as low as 60hz which I figured should work well for most people who don't need a ton of extension. A single woofer design with that box would actually make for a pretty decent sized titan surround (or compact LCR) if someone really wanted that.

If more extension is desired a ported enclosure could easily be made using the same baffle size, just deeper.
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post #43 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDTM View Post
If we're putting in requests, I wouldn't mind seeing a SEOS24 with one of the big JBL CDs and dual Magnums
I like this idea too....I was flirting with the idea of cloning a JBL 4722 of sorts with the JBL 2453H SL on a 2384 horn (or SOES24) and a couple B&C 15CL76 underneath, but the maximus 12s would be cool as well, but a little less sensitive. Eager to hear what is going on in the DIYsoundgroup skunk works. I have never designed my own cross over before and don't have the necessary equipment to do so, so I'd be more inclined to build someone else's design or commission one.

Thanks, @tuxedocivic the horizontal centre channel would be placed on a 24" tall sub, so it may sounds closer to the L&R since the woofers wouldn't be floor loaded....or were you referring the L&R stacked woofers being floor loaded while the centre channel wouldn't be? Either way, sounds like it would work for the most part.

I have some 1.5 inch thick Bamboo countertop earmarked for some baffles for some big speakers
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post #44 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The Titan-612DC design (which is the name I've been using for this one) should be pretty unique. The DC stands for dual configurable. My idea was to make everything modular, you have two woofer boxes and the waveguide box and you can configure them almost any way you like (also makes shipping easier):

TMWW:


WTMW vertical:



WWTM (in case you want to stack it on of a sub but still have the waveguide ear height):


WTMW horizontal:


You could even stack both woofers side by side under the waveguide or one to the side and one above.

The boxes I am working with are actually pretty compact sealed enclosures, the depth is only 8" so it's very low profile. F3 in that enclosure is about 70hz though you should be able to use a crossover down as low as 60hz which I figured should work well for most people who don't need a ton of extension. A single woofer design with that box would actually make for a pretty decent sized titan surround (or compact LCR) if someone really wanted that.

If more extension is desired a ported enclosure could easily be made using the same baffle size, just deeper.
@mtg90 That's awesome!!! Great idea!
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post #45 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The Titan-612DC design (which is the name I've been using for this one) should be pretty unique. The DC stands for dual configurable. My idea was to make everything modular, you have two woofer boxes and the waveguide box and you can configure them almost any way you like (also makes shipping easier):

  • TMWW:
  • WTMW vertical
  • WWTM (in case you want to stack it on of a sub but still have the waveguide ear height)
  • WTMW horizontal

You could even stack both woofers side by side under the waveguide or one to the side and one above.

The boxes I am working with are actually pretty compact sealed enclosures, the depth is only 8" so it's very low profile. F3 in that enclosure is about 70hz though you should be able to use a crossover down as low as 60hz which I figured should work well for most people who don't need a ton of extension. A single woofer design with that box would actually make for a pretty decent sized titan surround (or compact LCR) if someone really wanted that.

If more extension is desired a ported enclosure could easily be made using the same baffle size, just deeper.
I love this approach. Great for so many different setups, behind screens, out in the open, whatever people need. Excellent idea.
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post #46 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 01:27 PM
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Just ordered 2 from DIYSG! Not sure when they'll get here but I don't have my box done yet. I'm starting a build thread soon!
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post #47 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 02:10 PM
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Well, I see this thread has moved away from a less expensive Titan to a more expensive option. I'd love to have something like this for my LCR, unforunately, it's beyond my budget. I think a lot of people would be interested in something like I mentioned earlier - a cheaper, less intrusive, full range speaker.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but isn't that the whole idea behind DIY? The idea is to get more performance than the price would suggest. I'm a member on DIYMOBILEAUDIO, and I know several others here are as well. That site is famous for having people using ultra-budget equipment ( especially speaker drivers ) and getting really good performance from them. I understand that the mobile environment is different than the home, but it seems the idea should work the same regardless.
Sorry for the semi-rant here. I know I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most on this forum. So, if I stepped out of line, please let me know. Thanks all.
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post #48 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk123 View Post
Well, I see this thread has moved away from a less expensive Titan to a more expensive option. I'd love to have something like this for my LCR, unforunately, it's beyond my budget. I think a lot of people would be interested in something like I mentioned earlier - a cheaper, less intrusive, full range speaker.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but isn't that the whole idea behind DIY? The idea is to get more performance than the price would suggest. I'm a member on DIYMOBILEAUDIO, and I know several others here are as well. That site is famous for having people using ultra-budget equipment ( especially speaker drivers ) and getting really good performance from them. I understand that the mobile environment is different than the home, but it seems the idea should work the same regardless.
Sorry for the semi-rant here. I know I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most on this forum. So, if I stepped out of line, please let me know. Thanks all.
You didnt step out of line but Im curious what you are thinking would make more budget sense? The Magnum 12 offers a lot for $160. I'd suggest that with a good coax or horn setup like the Titan you get full range sound (full range meaning down to 35hz) for about $450-$600 plus baffle and stuff. I suppose a cheap mid/tweeter combo could be used, or a cheaper woofer. But you'll be giving up a lot for the small amount of money saved.

Did you have a budget in mind?

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post #49 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 02:37 PM
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tux, no real budget per say. Just something like corradizo mentioned on the first page of this thread - an easy way to transform a small speaker into a 3-way, full range without the need for external amplification. He mentioned the Fusion 8s. But I think this scenario would be attractive for anyone using bookshelf speakers.
I'm even considering the Fusion 6s as a good candidate. I know there is the MBM already, but it requires separate amps for power.
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post #50 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 02:52 PM
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While I love the idea of the new titan kit I'm also inclined to agree to keep it cheaper. My idea is to plop some concentrics down on these. I'd love to have a center that is flanked by the mag 12's too.


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post #51 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 03:00 PM
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After thinking a bit, I guess what I suggesting wouldn't really work anyway. Wouldn't the midbass module really have to have a passive crossover built specifically to integrate it with whatever speaker it would be used with? That possibility is endless.
I guess that's the good thing about external amplifiers with DSP.
Oh well, sounded like a good idea at the time. I still like the cheaper Titan idea too.
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post #52 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 03:06 PM
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The problem with a passive MBM/woofer add on solution is that the speaker you want to be adding it to has to have fairly close sensitivity to the woofer otherwise you will have either too much or too little bass. Also the crossover would probably be speaker specific, not a size fits all solution. That's even if the new highpass network can be added on top of the existing speaker/crossover without messing things up as the new high pass components will start to interact with the existing crossover and change the response shape if set too high and if set too low the impedance peak/s from the woofer (in the two way speaker) will do the same to that highpass. It ends up being a kludge more then anything else.

I designed one for the Concentric-8 and it works well enough but a ground up three way crossover design with those drivers could produce better results.
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post #53 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 03:21 PM
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post #54 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 03:23 PM
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the horizontal dual woofer Titan as a CC - monstrously and beautifully imposing, even more so than a F-15

and I'd have room for it under the TV, with a few adjustments to my makeshift speaker stand

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decisions, decisions, decisions . . .

thanks for all the great thinking

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post #55 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 03:27 PM
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Even the radian 5210 looks like a candidate that could pair up with this. Is it too sensitive? Or is the concentric still best bet? I haven't heard the concentric or the F8 to really decide.


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post #56 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk123 View Post
Well, I see this thread has moved away from a less expensive Titan to a more expensive option. I'd love to have something like this for my LCR, unforunately, it's beyond my budget. I think a lot of people would be interested in something like I mentioned earlier - a cheaper, less intrusive, full range speaker.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but isn't that the whole idea behind DIY? The idea is to get more performance than the price would suggest.
I don't think we've moved away from a less expensive Titan, there's just some brainstorming going on with different ideas using the Magnum-12 woofer in this thread. But that doesn't mean the Titan project won't have a cheaper 12" woofer option at some point.

MTG90 will tell you that I thought a Titan using dual Magnum-12's probably won't get built very much simply due to the cost. One thought was to use the cheaper Delta-12B like the 1299 does. It seems like a good idea, but I also wanted a cheaper Titan-615.......and no one has built one yet, which is a big surprise.

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post #57 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 04:34 PM
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I started out in the hobby seeking knowledge and searching for a way to get more value for the dollar. I suspect many, me included, eventually learn that you can't save on quality drivers. Sure great designs can be made with budget drivers but amazing designs take amazing drivers. No way around it. So we learn to go for the better stuff to avoid as many upgrade cycles as we can. It's why I'll tell anyone to go with an 18" sub, unless they have space constraints. Why get a 12" then move up to 15" then onto 18"? Just get the 18" and gasp.. Be done with it. Even jumping to the endgame leaves room for improvement. Another example: before I got into this hobby, spending 3-5k on a pair of high end speakers was absurd to me. Having learned and listened to various speakers, I think something like the Salk Song3-Encores are a deal!

http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Song3+Encore
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post #58 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 04:43 PM
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https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus

I hope this works. I'm not good at posting links. Anyway.....
I guess what I'm actually looking for is a high efficiency design of this. Maybe I'm just not realizing the differences in cost between regular and high efficiency drivers?
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post #59 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 05:59 PM
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Well you aren't going to get higher efficiency without giving something up, if you drop a magnum-12 into the same enclosure as that peerless SLS 10" you gain a few dB of sensitivity but you won't get a 29hz f3, it will be more like 38-40hz. You will need a more sensitive mid which will be some extra $$ to find one with a nice smooth response like the SDS, the tweeter may still work. However your woofer cost which is already the most expensive driver in that kit by far just doubled.

Drop in an inexpensive pro woofer and you might get another couple dB but now your f3 is 60hz not what I would call a full range design and the trouble is you won't find a midrange and tweeter with high enough sensitivity and the nice smooth frequency response of the 6" SDS and DX25 anywhere near the cost of those drivers.

High efficiency drivers with nice smooth frequency responses just don't come as cheap as the lower efficiency counterparts.

Last edited by mtg90; 08-11-2017 at 06:07 PM.
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post #60 of 74 Old 08-11-2017, 06:36 PM
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Excellent explanation. That makes sense. I'm still interested to see what comes of this idea.
Back to DIYSG for some more searching.......
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