The DIYSG Magnum 12 General Discussion Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 114 Old 08-11-2017, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The DIYSG Magnum 12 General Discussion Thread

Matt great work on this kit it looks great! If someone one built a bigger slot ported box for the magnums instead of sealed modules would it still work with the crossover design.

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post #62 of 114 Old 08-11-2017, 09:07 PM
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Yes larger ported enclosures would work with the same crossover design.
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post #63 of 114 Old 08-11-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Yes larger ported enclosures would work with the same crossover design.


My double 1.77cuf boxes and the CD/mid range section would work well with out needing to rework the cross over? Is this the exact same section from the titan?


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post #64 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 09:40 AM
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Just to make it clear the crossover from the Titan-615 or 615LX will not work with the magnum woofers (at least not optimally). The crossover for the new Titan-612DC works fine with those woofers in sealed or ported enclosures.

For most speaker designs switching from sealed to ported or vice versa does not require crossover changes.

It's not noted anywhere but you can run the 615's sealed if you wanted or plug one port and have ~28hz tuning instead of the normal 40hz for possibly more low end extension if room gain is good.
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post #65 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 09:49 AM
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Ok guys. Thanks for being so patient and helpful with me here. I'm trying to learn on the fly. I have another question.
What differentiates this design from say, the Fusion 12 or even Fusion 15 in terms of output, frequency response, etc. It seems that all three are designed with roughly the same frequency range and price points.
Since I've never heard any DIYSG speakers, I have no point of reference to determine differences. Thanks again.
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post #66 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 11:02 AM
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Ok guys. Thanks for being so patient and helpful with me here. I'm trying to learn on the fly. I have another question.
What differentiates this design from say, the Fusion 12 or even Fusion 15 in terms of output, frequency response, etc. It seems that all three are designed with roughly the same frequency range and price points.
Since I've never heard any DIYSG speakers, I have no point of reference to determine differences. Thanks again.
For starters those are two way designs, so horizontal centers are a no-no. The woofers cover more of the midrange so they give up bass capability to do that. Which is a common 3way vs 2way trade off. Those also use the very good seos waveguide and we're talking about coaxials and other horns. Different devices to accomplish different objectives. The nice thing about a coaxial design is you could use the coax portion for surround duty and get a uniform timbre around the room.

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post #67 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 11:26 AM
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The coaxial design you mention, I assume is the tweeter/midrange horn combination.
I saw another thread that discusses a Fusion 8 Tower build with a larger enclosure to increase low frequency output. Maybe that's the kind of thing I'm looking for. Or even the Cohesive 893 ported. Don't really know.
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post #68 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 01:17 PM
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Yes the coax is a mid and tweeter combo.

A ported 893 can extend pretty low.

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post #69 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 01:52 PM
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tux, do you have any knowledge about the ported 893? There are no details on DIYSG website about it other than the difference in frequency response compared to the original. I haven't seen anything about it.
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post #70 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 04:46 PM
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tux, do you have any knowledge about the ported 893? There are no details on DIYSG website about it other than the difference in frequency response compared to the original. I haven't seen anything about it.
The 893 thread got nuked by the photobucket scam

What would you like to know? I designed the speaker if you weren't aware. So any questions about it I can help with.

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post #71 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 04:58 PM
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Before the talk of the titan 612, the 893 was my favorite speaker on the DIYSG website. When I'm ready to move from my klipsch towers it's going to be a tough time to which one I pick.


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post #72 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
The 893 thread got nuked by the photobucket scam

What would you like to know? I designed the speaker if you weren't aware. So any questions about it I can help with.
Well. Sorry we got so far off topic here. Not intentional.
I found the "Lil Bro to the 1099" thread that discusses the 893 from start to finish. I read through it but think I need to read it again. Lots of cool stuff and good info there !
I'm thinking that no matter what size ported enclosure you use, the crossover remains the same, correct?
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post #73 of 114 Old 08-12-2017, 10:54 PM
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From my understanding is this only applies to the low end. If you change cross over frequency then it would.


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post #74 of 114 Old 08-14-2017, 10:03 AM
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I feel responsible for derailing this thread. Sorry guys. So, bump
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post #75 of 114 Old 09-03-2017, 03:31 PM
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Could use a little help with my MBM's I bought for Nearfield use from DIYSG. So I have one built and I was playing around with the Inuke 1000dsp functions and realized that if I use the subwoofer output on my Onkyo 828 receiver is it going to cross over at 80Hz regardless of how I setup the amp? I built them using the flat pack and cut the port to tune them at 40 Hz and was planning on going up to 250Hz. Just an FYI I have 2 subwoofers on a y splitter and was going to put the 2 MBM's on another Y adapter. Also a little confused on settings for using the Inuke if someone had a good starting point for settings would appreciate it.
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post #76 of 114 Old 09-03-2017, 05:49 PM
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If the amps for your subs are also inuke dsp, then cross your speakers in the avr at 250hz, that will then feed your mbm and subs. Low pass/high pass your mbm and your subs to their respective frequency ranges.

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post #77 of 114 Old 09-03-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
Could use a little help with my MBM's I bought for Nearfield use from DIYSG. So I have one built and I was playing around with the Inuke 1000dsp functions and realized that if I use the subwoofer output on my Onkyo 828 receiver is it going to cross over at 80Hz regardless of how I setup the amp? I built them using the flat pack and cut the port to tune them at 40 Hz and was planning on going up to 250Hz. Just an FYI I have 2 subwoofers on a y splitter and was going to put the 2 MBM's on another Y adapter. Also a little confused on settings for using the Inuke if someone had a good starting point for settings would appreciate it.
I have a thread to show you. I'm at a wedding but I'll fill you in when I get a chance. I'm literally looking to do the same thing.
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post #78 of 114 Old 09-03-2017, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
Could use a little help with my MBM's I bought for Nearfield use from DIYSG. So I have one built and I was playing around with the Inuke 1000dsp functions and realized that if I use the subwoofer output on my Onkyo 828 receiver is it going to cross over at 80Hz regardless of how I setup the amp? I built them using the flat pack and cut the port to tune them at 40 Hz and was planning on going up to 250Hz. Just an FYI I have 2 subwoofers on a y splitter and was going to put the 2 MBM's on another Y adapter. Also a little confused on settings for using the Inuke if someone had a good starting point for settings would appreciate it.


Your sub pre outs auto to 80hz, but you can change it in the settings. Be aware though I think the max cross over on receivers and the LFE out is 150.

You should model the box in winISD and see where max excursion takes place and filter before that, to protect your speakers. Next is to get a mic and measure your room, use the results to use your PEQ settings to flatten your response - trust me this is important.

I have the gain turned up partially on my MBM's to better match my sub and the lower end gained by my room. It's pretty awesome, in Jurassic Park I can now feel when the t-Rex breaths, all thanks to the MBM's.


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post #79 of 114 Old 09-04-2017, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Just to make it clear the crossover from the Titan-615 or 615LX will not work with the magnum woofers (at least not optimally). The crossover for the new Titan-612DC works fine with those woofers in sealed or ported enclosures.



For most speaker designs switching from sealed to ported or vice versa does not require crossover changes.



It's not noted anywhere but you can run the 615's sealed if you wanted or plug one port and have ~28hz tuning instead of the normal 40hz for possibly more low end extension if room gain is good.


Don't mean to keep derailing this thread but what about using a different 12" for the Titan-12 like the one from the HTM-12 and tune it around 65hz to be able to cross at 80?

This would be for people that want the midrange and highs from the Titan but dont need the extension of the Titan-15. It would also be a little shorter.


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post #80 of 114 Old 09-04-2017, 08:13 AM
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We originally thought about the 12" Kappalite, or see if Eminence could get us a custom version similar to the 15" they made. But the cost difference between the 12" and 15" Kappalite is not very much and the price would be close. When that happens, most people just go for the larger model. The width of the speaker wouldn't change much between the two models due to the width of the horn.

I did draw up a 12" model where the cabinet was wider and not as tall, and then about 20 other variants of different shapes and sizes. But not really sure what everyone needs. Without reviews or community brainstorming on what people want, it's difficult to know which direction to move.
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post #81 of 114 Old 09-04-2017, 09:13 AM
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We originally thought about the 12" Kappalite, or see if Eminence could get us a custom version similar to the 15" they made. But the cost difference between the 12" and 15" Kappalite is not very much and the price would be close. When that happens, most people just go for the larger model. The width of the speaker wouldn't change much between the two models due to the width of the horn.



I did draw up a 12" model where the cabinet was wider and not as tall, and then about 20 other variants of different shapes and sizes. But not really sure what everyone needs. Without reviews or community brainstorming on what people want, it's difficult to know which direction to move.


That makes sense.

I'm just trying to think of a way to make it so it would work sitting on top of a sub. What about dual 8" woofers in an WTMW configuration? Maybe using the DW816 from the Cinema -8?


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post #82 of 114 Old 09-04-2017, 10:25 AM
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Eminence made some very nice high end, high power 8" woofer samples that would work very well. But they're pretty expensive and I'm just not sure if there's enough demand for something like that. Once you add the cost of two nice smaller woofers, you're pretty much at the cost of a nice larger woofer. For example, there's only been one 88-Special ordered since the HTM-12 came out, because the two 8's cost nearly the same as the 12" and need almost the same enclosure size. A lot of the 'problem' is when kits are priced at the sum of their parts. It makes it more difficult to differentiate between some of the designs.
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post #83 of 114 Old 09-04-2017, 10:51 AM
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Do the 8's have to be "high end"? Wouldnt the DW816 work? I doubt most people will be using more than 100-200 watts on them and are just looking for sound quality


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post #84 of 114 Old 09-04-2017, 12:46 PM
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Yes, those woofers would work okay. The price would likely come in just a little under the standard Titan-615, but more than the 88-Special and 893 speaker. Less sensitivity than those speakers, same height as the HTM-12, but costs more than all of them. I'm not sure how demand would be for something like that. It's a tough call when you start comparing new ideas to what's already been designed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
Could use a little help with my MBM's I bought for Nearfield use from DIYSG. So I have one built and I was playing around with the Inuke 1000dsp functions and realized that if I use the subwoofer output on my Onkyo 828 receiver is it going to cross over at 80Hz regardless of how I setup the amp? I built them using the flat pack and cut the port to tune them at 40 Hz and was planning on going up to 250Hz. Just an FYI I have 2 subwoofers on a y splitter and was going to put the 2 MBM's on another Y adapter. Also a little confused on settings for using the Inuke if someone had a good starting point for settings would appreciate it.
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If the amps for your subs are also inuke dsp, then cross your speakers in the avr at 250hz, that will then feed your mbm and subs. Low pass/high pass your mbm and your subs to their respective frequency ranges.
So I done some research (although haven't brought it to light yet) because I want my LFE channel + 40 to 120Hz from my fronts but also want to keep my fronts with a standard crossover at 80Hz.

I was thinking this could be as simple as an RCA Y adapter but that will NOT work and potentially be damaging. so you can't combine signals with a Y adapter, only clone them. Then I looked at some passive hardware which is called an RCA combiner. However, it appeared there would be some crosstalk between the signals. I can't speak to the veracity of this claim but perhaps live sound and home theater have different standards for pross talk.

Finally, a digital mixer would be a solution to combine the signals with no crosstalk. I already own a MiniDSP 2x4 ($105) and can use that to combine 2 input signals to 1 output signal.

So I'm going to use this as an experiment and do LFE + Center Channel (pre-out on my AVR) and keep my crossovers at 80Hz and add an HPF at 30Hz and LPF at 120Hz. So my usable spectrum for my MBM Mag 12's will be around 35 to 140Hz.

I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.

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The DIYSG Magnum 12 General Discussion Thread

I like all the ideas everyone is coming up with for these drivers. I personally want to see these drivers in a slot ported box with the waveguide used for the Titan to kinda be like the JTR Noesis 212T. I think these drivers can give that speaker a run for its money. I know most guys will run these with a 80hz crossover but so are the JTR's... full range these will be amazing 30-35 hz and up from what I've modeled. I really want to hear what the sealed version would sound like to that Matt's designing right now.

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post #87 of 114 Old 09-04-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Yes, those woofers would work okay. The price would likely come in just a little under the standard Titan-615, but more than the 88-Special and 893 speaker. Less sensitivity than those speakers, same height as the HTM-12, but costs more than all of them. I'm not sure how demand would be for something like that. It's a tough call when you start comparing new ideas to what's already been designed.


Yeah the more I think about it the 612DC is probably the best way to get what I'm talking about.


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post #88 of 114 Old 09-05-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
So I done some research (although haven't brought it to light yet) because I want my LFE channel + 40 to 120Hz from my fronts but also want to keep my fronts with a standard crossover at 80Hz.

I was thinking this could be as simple as an RCA Y adapter but that will NOT work and potentially be damaging. so you can't combine signals with a Y adapter, only clone them. Then I looked at some passive hardware which is called an RCA combiner. However, it appeared there would be some crosstalk between the signals. I can't speak to the veracity of this claim but perhaps live sound and home theater have different standards for pross talk.

Finally, a digital mixer would be a solution to combine the signals with no crosstalk. I already own a MiniDSP 2x4 ($105) and can use that to combine 2 input signals to 1 output signal.

So I'm going to use this as an experiment and do LFE + Center Channel (pre-out on my AVR) and keep my crossovers at 80Hz and add an HPF at 30Hz and LPF at 120Hz. So my usable spectrum for my MBM Mag 12's will be around 35 to 140Hz.

I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.

Read from post 44 down:

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Thanks for the responses, I guess it was an after thought. If I buy a Minidsp 2x4 it defeated the purpose of the Inuke DSP version. I'm going to play around with the AVR and Inuke and see what I can get figured out, maybe I can adjust the receiver crossover and use the manual settings for the PSA subs.
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post #89 of 114 Old 09-05-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
Thanks for the responses, I guess it was an after thought. If I buy a Minidsp 2x4 it defeated the purpose of the Inuke DSP version. I'm going to play around with the AVR and Inuke and see what I can get figured out, maybe I can adjust the receiver crossover and use the manual settings for the PSA subs.
yes, you are correct. For a second I was worried that I didn't get the iNuke with DSP because I was going to use my miniDSP as a mixer and unable to PEQ my rear subs. I'll worry about that later.

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post #90 of 114 Old 09-05-2017, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
I like all the ideas everyone is coming up with for these drivers. I personally want to see these drivers in a slot ported box with the waveguide used for the Titan to kinda be like the JTR Noesis 212T. I think these drivers can give that speaker a run for its money. I know most guys will run these with a 80hz crossover but so are the JTR's... full range these will be amazing 30-35 hz and up from what I've modeled. I really want to hear what the sealed version would sound like to that Matt's designing right now.
Now ......That's what I'm talkin' 'bout !!!!!
I really like the sound of this- slot ported, with the wave guide for full range music listening. Would also be great as Front L&R. Not too big. Not too small. Not too expensive. Just right !!!!
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