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post #1 of 10 Old 08-14-2017, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaker watts

I have a set of old Sony speakers SS-AV44's hooked up to my Denon X2300w receiver. The speakers are old and I would like to use the towers and replace the speakers. They have 2 6.5 inch subwoofer's and 1 2 inch tweeter in them. My receiver has 95 watts per channel RMS at 8 ohms. What wattage speakers should I use and should I use a 3 way or a 2 way crossover. Thanks

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post #2 of 10 Old 08-14-2017, 12:43 PM
 
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The driver power rating is only one of over a dozen Theile/Small specs that must be considered, and crossovers must be precisely tailored to the drivers used. You're probably better off to just buy new speakers if the old ones aren't cutting it any more.
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post #3 of 10 Old 08-14-2017, 12:52 PM
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It's not that simple.

SPL is related to driver efficiency and box efficiency (horns etc) more so than wattage.

The ability to handle wattage depends on guage of vc wire, heatsinking effects and available excursion. Power compression charts can determine this when the value is unknown.

Depends how how loud you want the sound to be and the beefyness of the gear.

As a rule of thumb, double what the amp puts out is a good target.

Overpowering is worse than underpowering.

Buying the most efficient drivers you can is usually a good idea... especially if you want it loud(er).
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post #4 of 10 Old 08-14-2017, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
It's not that simple.

SPL is related to driver efficiency and box efficiency (horns etc) more so than wattage.

The ability to handle wattage depends on guage of vc wire, heatsinking effects and available excursion. Power compression charts can determine this when the value is unknown.

Depends how how loud you want the sound to be and the beefyness of the gear.

As a rule of thumb, double what the amp puts out is a good target.

Overpowering is worse than underpowering.

Buying the most efficient drivers you can is usually a good idea... especially if you want it loud(er).
If I need 120 watts do I need to use speakers that are rated 120 watts each or do I use 3 40 watt speakers?
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post #5 of 10 Old 08-14-2017, 02:59 PM
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Do you have measurement equipment? Have you ever designed and built a passive crossover? Have you ever designed a complete speaker with several different drivers ?
If the answer is " NO " to any of these questions, you're in way over your head here.
There are lots of very knowledgeable people on this forum. Listen to them.
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post #6 of 10 Old 08-16-2017, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollisavrct View Post
I have a set of old Sony speakers SS-AV44's hooked up to my Denon X2300w receiver. The speakers are old and I would like to use the towers and replace the speakers. They have 2 6.5 inch subwoofer's and 1 2 inch tweeter in them. My receiver has 95 watts per channel RMS at 8 ohms. What wattage speakers should I use and should I use a 3 way or a 2 way crossover. Thanks

hollisavrct
Are you wanting to replace the speakers in the tower? IE take out the old speakers and put new ones in? If so you need to learn how to design a crossover. It's not as easy as just replacing speaker for speaker and looking at the wattage. If you are seriously interested in doing this, I would check out this internet tutorial that shows how to design a crossover and select speakers.


Just keep in mind that you will still want REW (which is free) and a testing microphone like the UMIK1
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post #7 of 10 Old 08-17-2017, 04:03 PM
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Found PHOTO + info for your Sony SS-AV44's....it's a 40-in High Mini-Tower, with about 1.5 cu.ft. (43-liters) interior Volume:
https://offerup.com/item/detail/231809919
http://www.nodevice.com/manual/sonym...f/get7057.html [includes Schematic for CHEAP "First Order" Crossover...such as it is]
https://docs.sony.com/release/STRD810SS.PDF [supplied as p/o STRD 5.1 AVR System]
As you said, it has a 5-cm (2-in) Tweeter, TWO 6.5-in Drivers (per manual one is Woofer, second is Mid-Bass) and a Bass-Reflex Tuning Tube.

Suitable Replacement Speaker Kits [incl. compatible set of Woofers, Tweeters and Crossover Network] are usually called "MTM" type [Mid-Bass, Tweeter, Mid-Bass], where the two Mid-Bass "Woofer" units are nearly always identical....if there are any Kits where one is specifically for Woofer Freqs and other for Mid-Bass, I didn't see it. Most of the available "MTM" kits use smaller 4-in and 5-1/4-in Drivers. SO the fol. is one of the RARE Kits that uses 6.5-in Mid-Bass Units that MIGHT fit your Sony Speaker Holes (MAY require some "adjustments"...try to find some detailed dimensions for both candidate Mid-Bass and Tweeter Units).
http://gr-research.com/x-csclassic.aspx
http://gr-research.com/m130woofer-1.aspx [6.5-in Woofer]
http://gr-research.com/gr-t3tweeter-1.aspx [Tweeter]
http://gr-research.com/x-lsencorekit.aspx [XLS-Encore with 1 Woofer actually contains the links to Woofer and Tweeter Drivers]

Note that this kit comes in either "X-CS CLASSIC" SEALED BOX [where SIZE of the Enclosure affects the Low Freq Roll-off point but is NOT Critical to the Design] and additional cost "X-CS MTM" VENTED PORT [Bass-Reflex Tube may require some "tweaks" to fit Sony cabinet] versions. If you don't feel you have the tools (Sound Pressure Level Meter or Calibrated Microphone with Cellphone or PC) and/or knowledge/experience to TUNE the Bass-Reflex Tube Length for the SIZE of the Sony Speaker Cabinet, then select the SEALED BOX version. Since they are only 6.5-in Woofers, the AVR's Bass Management should set them to SMALL, hence Frequency Response below 60 Hz isn't going to make any difference ANYWAY, since Freqs below about 80 Hz are re-directed to the Sub-Woofer....so I doubt that it's worth the extra effort to LEARN how to Tune a Bass Reflex, when those Freqs aren't going to be heard anyway....

================================================== ====
Another more expensive KIT from Europe...note Freq Response Comparison Charts....above from GR-Research won't be all that different:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Peerless_HDS830875.htm

================================================== ====
If you Google "Speaker Kits" you will find over a dozen different suppliers....feel free to expand your search.....
Note that SOME of them can get CRAZY Expensive:
https://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/c/...+Speakers.html

IF you want to PICK and CHOSE your own components, esp. if you want to replicate the Sony's 3-Way Woofer/Mid-Bass/Tweeter Configuration, then you'll need to know a LOT MORE about Speaker Design....and there are endless numbers of combinations....and the SPECS don't tell you EVERYTHING you need to know....

Last edited by holl_ands; 08-17-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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post #8 of 10 Old 08-17-2017, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollisavrct View Post
I have a set of old Sony speakers SS-AV44's hooked up to my Denon X2300w receiver. The speakers are old and I would like to use the towers and replace the speakers. They have 2 6.5 inch subwoofer's and 1 2 inch tweeter in them. My receiver has 95 watts per channel RMS at 8 ohms. What wattage speakers should I use and should I use a 3 way or a 2 way crossover.
This is the XO schematic and the parts list:



As far as the XO is concerned, it is not anymore sophisticated than the XO in the old Realistic Minimus 7/77 series from Radio Shack. I seriously doubt the two woofers differ in any way other than their part number. As long as the impedance is the same and basket diameter is the same, you could probably find something at Parts Express or MCM Electronics for a few dollars that would drop in and be unrecognizable—from a sound perspective—from the original parts.
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post #9 of 10 Old 08-18-2017, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
This is the XO schematic and the parts list:



As far as the XO is concerned, it is not anymore sophisticated than the XO in the old Realistic Minimus 7/77 series from Radio Shack. I seriously doubt the two woofers differ in any way other than their part number. As long as the impedance is the same and basket diameter is the same, you could probably find something at Parts Express or MCM Electronics for a few dollars that would drop in and be unrecognizable—from a sound perspective—from the original parts.
Thanks for the help. I really enjoyed watching the tutorial and links that you sent.
I have been in the electronics repair sense 1990 and have repaired many receivers etc. but this is really my first attempt at repairing speakers, probably a good thing they are mine. I contacted Parts Express and they suggested the following parts, please let me know what you think. the woofer's are 4 ohm and he told me to wire them in series to gat the 8 ohms. Could I use a 3 way crossover and use one of the woofers as the midrange.

https://www.parts-express.com/dynavo...eeter--275-200
https://www.parts-express.com/goldwo...4-ohm--290-351
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...00-hz--260-140

I have set up surround sound systems in the past and own a SPL meter and I would probably buy the mic. and some cheap software to test my system if needed.

I would still like to know how to figure out the wattage of the speakers.

Thanks for all the kelp
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post #10 of 10 Old 08-18-2017, 11:57 AM
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I doubt that the two 6.5-in Drivers in the Sony are the SAME....after all they have DIFFERENT part numbers. One should have a significantly lower Free Air Resonance (Fs) and the other should be designed as a MID-RANGE Driver, with significantly higher Stiffness and other parameters in order to EXTEND the Frequency Response throughout the Mid-Range/Tweeter Crossover region.

=================================================
Max Wattage is listed in the specs for the individual components.

Sensitivity for TWO Woofers would be 3 dB LOWER than individual spec of 89.5 dB SPL, hence 86.5 dB SPL, since EACH is seeing 1/2 as much voltage [6 dB Loss to each]...but there are TWO of them, hence Net 3 dB LOSS....which is significantly LESS than the Tweeter spec of 92 +/- 2 dB SLP.....BUT the ROOM can enhance the Bass Levels....so overall they are more or less the SAME. IF you find you want to lower the Tweeter Level vs Woofer, you should add a 100-watt L-Pad between the Crossover Network and the Tweeter as you will find in MANY commercial speakers:
https://www.parts-express.com/Search...itesearch=true
I do NOT recommend any attenuation for Woofer since it adversely affects the Damping Factor and hence can muddy the Transient Response. IF you want to RAISE Tweeter level wrt Woofer, you'll need to chose a more efficient Tweeter....or go to an alternative 3-Way Design.

Note that Goldwood 276-200 has a SIGNIFICANT DIP right at the recommended 2kHz Crossover Frequency...which will probably show up as a DIP right at the Crossover Freq [including Phase and Envelope Delay anomalies].....illustrating the difficulty of trying to use JUST Woofer(s) and a Tweeter instead of much more prevalent Woofer, Mid-Range and Tweeter arrangement....you might want to ask Parts Express for a 3-Way Recommendation:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...-more-info.pdf

A BETTER choice for Crossover Frequency would be LOWER, although Tweeter might have increased Distortion with as low as 1 kHz Crossover. Hence, I would recommend fol. compromise, a 1600 Hz Crossover with Second Order [12 db/octave rolloff] LPF for 8-ohm (when In-Series) Woofers and 18/db octave rolloff] HPF for 8-ohm Tweeter:
https://www.parts-express.com/eminen...00-hz--290-600

A slightly lower Crossover Freq has very little impact on the Tweeter, and the more rapid 18 dB/octave roll-off helps protect Tweeter and MAY provide SLIGHTLY lower Distortion just below the Crossover Freq [the difference between 1600 and 2000 Hz is barely visible]. Unfortunately, Dynavox doesn't provide a Distortion vs Frequency Chart, which likely shows increase in Distortion on lower Freqs (just like a Woofer).
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...spec-sheet.pdf

Last edited by holl_ands; 08-18-2017 at 12:30 PM.
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