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post #1 of 37 Old 08-19-2017, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Newbie to DIY - Take It Easy On Me!

Hello DIY community! I have recently embarked on a journey to plan my future dedicated home theater. I am currently in the design phase and have a "best bang for the buck" mindset. Naturally, DIY is a great option for getting the most out of your pennies. I am going to be working with a 26' X 18' X 10' room. I plan to have a False wall with a large AT screen, and hopefully ~3' of space for the RLC & subs.

I was looking at doing a VBSS DIY Dayton PA460-8 (as many as I can fit into my room) by a iNUKE 6000DSP. (~$2000)
For the LRC, I was thinking about the DIY Titan 615LX in conjunction what whatever amp(s) would be appropriate ($2900)
For the LR surrounds, and LR rear, Volt 10's (again, whatever amp would be appropriate) ($?)
For the front LR presence, and rear LR presence, Volt 8's (again, whatever amp would be appropriate) ($)

I have been collaborating with @Rowan611 who has been extremely helpful, but I wanted to introduce myself here and see what others think about this idea. Generally speaking, I am very weak in this field, but am willing to learn and get my hands dirty to create the system I've always wanted.

I have also considered the Stereo Integrity 18's paired with DIYS's 18" cubed flat pack option, which would be more expensive, but still significantly cheaper than brand name equivalent performing solutions.

Perhaps someone out there has been in my exact shoes and knows everything that one would need and should acquire to make this happen .

Here is a LINK to my dedicated home theater build thread.

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post #2 of 37 Old 08-19-2017, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
Hello DIY community! I have recently embarked on a journey to plan my future dedicated home theater. I am currently in the design phase and have a "best bang for the buck" mindset. Naturally, DIY is a great option for getting the most out of your pennies. I am going to be working with a 26' X 18' X 10' room. I plan to have a False wall with a large AT screen, and hopefully ~3' of space for the RLC & subs.

I was looking at doing a VBSS DIY Dayton PA460-8 (as many as I can fit into my room) by a iNUKE 6000DSP. (~$2000)
For the LRC, I was thinking about the DIY Titan 615LX in conjunction what whatever amp(s) would be appropriate ($2900)
For the LR surrounds, and LR rear, Volt 10's (again, whatever amp would be appropriate) ($?)
For the front LR presence, and rear LR presence, Volt 8's (again, whatever amp would be appropriate) ($)

I have been collaborating with @Rowan611 who has been extremely helpful, but I wanted to introduce myself here and see what others think about this idea. Generally speaking, I am very weak in this field, but am willing to learn and get my hands dirty to create the system I've always wanted.

I have also considered the Stereo Integrity 18's paired with DIYS's 18" cubed flat pack option, which would be more expensive, but still significantly cheaper than brand name equivalent performing solutions.

Perhaps someone out there has been in my exact shoes and knows everything that one would need and should acquire to make this happen .

With a room that size I would look at a 7.2.4 arrangement. How many seats are you planning? You may also consider some 18's in the front and rear and use the VBSS subs for behind the seating for tactile feeling.

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post #3 of 37 Old 08-19-2017, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
With a room that size I would look at a 7.2.4 arrangement. How many seats are you planning? You may also consider some 18's in the front and rear and use the VBSS subs for behind the seating for tactile feeling.
Yes the 7.2.4 is what I had in mind (4 being atmos). I think for seating, I will probably have two rows of 4 seats along with a possible bar setup behind the 2nd row. When you say put 18's in the front and rear, and then use VBSS for tactile feeling, can you please expand on that? In my mind, the VBSS subs would be the subs, if that makes sense? Do you mean using something like a tactile transducer? Forgive my ignorance.
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post #4 of 37 Old 08-19-2017, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
Yes the 7.2.4 is what I had in mind (4 being atmos). I think for seating, I will probably have two rows of 4 seats along with a possible bar setup behind the 2nd row. When you say put 18's in the front and rear, and then use VBSS for tactile feeling, can you please expand on that? In my mind, the VBSS subs would be the subs, if that makes sense? Do you mean using something like a tactile transducer? Forgive my ignorance.
I think he's saying to use the VBSS nearfield for more tactile feel during movies. Not a bad idea. The issue is you are planning two rows....so you'd have to plan that out. Might have to design a cab specifically for that. I like nearfield. It adds a lot to the experience. But, in two row setups it makes it more difficult. As long as there's room to walk and get the feet rests up, you should be fine.

Either way, I would try and put some in the back. This will help with room modes. It also helps even put the bass at ALL seats.

I see now why your going with the 6000 vs the 3000 for the VBSS, so ignore my last PM about that. If you're planning on more than 8 VBSS, then I would definitely try and work one or two nearfield.

I still believe that the VBSS is the best bang for your buck sub anyone can build. And, with 8+ there would be no real advantage going with a different driver.....unless you're trying to get into the single digit hz range.

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post #5 of 37 Old 08-19-2017, 08:58 PM
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A quick draw up of your room plans would be helpful
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post #6 of 37 Old 08-19-2017, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chrisipod4s View Post
A quick draw up of your room plans would be helpful
Chris,

Here are a couple of different images that should provide some context for what it's going to be like. Note that these are slightly off because I've switched my focus to a two-row design, but nevertheless, you will get the lay of the floor plan and how it would all come together.
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post #7 of 37 Old 08-20-2017, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is an updated sketch I worked on this afternoon.
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post #8 of 37 Old 08-20-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
Chris,

Here are a couple of different images that should provide some context for what it's going to be like. Note that these are slightly off because I've switched my focus to a two-row design, but nevertheless, you will get the lay of the floor plan and how it would all come together.
A two row seating arrangement would be better, since there isn't sufficient room for seats to recline fully in your three row sketch.
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post #9 of 37 Old 08-20-2017, 11:21 PM
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I think you need to answer or figure out what are your priorities. As in budget, get by the cheapest, best all around output and SQ, low end out put, enclosure size or who cares if it takes 75cf+ of box space? I do not think the PA460 is the best choice as a solo driver for HT use. Even 8+ of them are not going to equal 4 ported SI HT 18" in the low-end. And for HT I would think low-end output would be close to the top of priorities.

And with your room size of 4500cf+, you are going to need a lot of low end.

I would do a mix of PA460 and SI HT18" if you want to save $$ or something like the B&C 18RBX100 and UM18 18 for a little more $ and more output. Something along the lines of 2 of the PA drivers and 4 of the HT drivers. The upper bass(40-150hz) is easy to get so to speak the stuff 25-30hz and under is not so easy and takes higher excursion drivers and more power. Not happening with 6mm pro audio drivers unless you literally fill the room with them.

Another comparison is in your other thread Anyone Own a VBSS Dayton PA460-8 in the OKC area? that is why I asked @eng-399 about his 4 B&C 21s vs the 4 SI HT18s. It is going to take approximately 3 PA460 to equal 1 B&C 21DS. So that is 12 PA460 to = 4 21DS and that is still not equalling the 4 SI 18" in the low-end.

I ran a WINISD of 4 UM18 in 60cf@15hz 1000w pe, and 12 PA460 in 96cf@15hz 100w pe to not exceed Xmax so you can see what they look like for output across the FR. If midbass is more important go with all PA drivers if low-end is the priority go with HT drivers if you want both slamming midbass and low-end run both.

Last note if running Titan XL 615 you might not even need a separate pro audio driver. The thing is running the traditional setup of crossing over at 80hz you take away a lot of the bass and midbass the 615 has to offer. Those pro audio drivers thrive in that 35-40hz and up range.
Anyway, that is just my thought process on it others will differ.
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post #10 of 37 Old 08-20-2017, 11:40 PM
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Newbie to DIY - Take It Easy On Me!

^^^ well said bscool I feel he knows what each of these drivers will make in sound. So many drivers to choose from..... Nows the time to think about what your goals are in bass output. Where do you live? What state or major city are you around Oklahoma I'm thinking. It would be nice if the op can get in touch with someone so he can hear what different drivers sound like kinda like a pro audio driver vs a um18-22 this would be a big help along with hearing a ported vs sealed sub in a room almost the same size as what he is building. I wish I could of done this before I started all this madness. That's why I'm a fan of gtg meets you get to hear all different setups. My vote would be if he wants to save some money is build 4 submaxmis horns like Jeremy did using the um18-22 driver than add on after that. I think this would fill the room and nearfield subs can be added later depending on budget.
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post #11 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I think you need to answer or figure out what are your priorities. As in budget, get by the cheapest, best all around output and SQ, low end out put, enclosure size or who cares if it takes 75cf+ of box space? I do not think the PA460 is the best choice as a solo driver for HT use. Even 8+ of them are not going to equal 4 ported SI HT 18" in the low-end. And for HT I would think low-end output would be close to the top of priorities.

And with your room size of 4500cf+, you are going to need a lot of low end.

I would do a mix of PA460 and SI HT18" if you want to save $$ or something like the B&C 18RBX100 and UM18 18 for a little more $ and more output. Something along the lines of 2 of the PA drivers and 4 of the HT drivers. The upper bass(40-150hz) is easy to get so to the speaker the stuff 25-30hz and under is not so easy and takes higher excursion drivers and more power. Not happening with 6mm pro audio drivers unless you literally fill the room with them.

Another comparison is in your other thread Anyone Own a VBSS Dayton PA460-8 in the OKC area? that is why I asked @eng-399 about his 4 B&C 21s vs the 4 SI HT18s. It is going to take approximately 3 PA460 to equal 1 B&C 21DS. So that is 12 PA460 to = 4 21DS and that is still not equalling the 4 SI 18" in the low-end.

I ran a WINISD of 4 UM18 in 60cf@15hz 1000w pe, and 12 PA460 in 96cf@15hz 100w pe to not exceed Xmax so you can see what they look like for output across the FR. If midbass is more important go with all PA drivers if low-end is the priority go with HT drivers if you want both slamming midbass and low-end run both.

Last note if running Titan XL 615 you might not even need a separate pro audio driver. The thing is running the traditional setup of crossing over at 80hz you take away a lot of the bass and midbass the 615 has to offer. Those pro audio drivers thrive in that 35-40hz and up range.
Anyway, that is just my thought process on it others will differ.
Low end depends on if you're sitting on a concrete slap or not (for the record, I know you know this. That's not really for you)

I've been in lukeamdmans room with his 8 DO 21s and there was nothing low...and his back row is on a riser. We were both disappointed with this. Which, is why he decided to build the LLT cabs. Now, I will say that since he has transitioned 4 or the 8 to a LLT there is significantly more pressure, low and otherwise, in the room now. But, he's got 8 incredible drivers, tons of power and all the necessary skill to build those big LLT boxes.

I agree that a SI 18 will outperform the 460 down low. And, if that's important to Oklahomie, then I agree he should reconsider the 460.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I agree. Just providing another side to the equation. In the end, as you said, it all depends on what he wants.
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post #12 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
Chris,

Here are a couple of different images that should provide some context for what it's going to be like. Note that these are slightly off because I've switched my focus to a two-row design, but nevertheless, you will get the lay of the floor plan and how it would all come together.
I recommend you post your sketch in the dedicated home theater thread. There is interplay between speakers & locations and seating.

If you want 'reclining' rows, I think the minimum recommended distance between rows is 6' 6". I think with a 3' deep screen wall and 26' total, you'll be very hard pressed to do three reclining rows. The front of my screen wall to the rear of my room is 22 feet, and I barely fit 2 reclining rows and a bar in there. My front row 'eyes' are ~ 9' away from my 11 foot wide 2.35:1 screen.
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post #13 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I think you need to answer or figure out what are your priorities. As in budget, get by the cheapest, best all around output and SQ, low end out put, enclosure size or who cares if it takes 75cf+ of box space? I do not think the PA460 is the best choice as a solo driver for HT use. Even 8+ of them are not going to equal 4 ported SI HT 18" in the low-end. And for HT I would think low-end output would be close to the top of priorities.



And with your room size of 4500cf+, you are going to need a lot of low end.



I would do a mix of PA460 and SI HT18" if you want to save $$ or something like the B&C 18RBX100 and UM18 18 for a little more $ and more output. Something along the lines of 2 of the PA drivers and 4 of the HT drivers. The upper bass(40-150hz) is easy to get so to the speaker the stuff 25-30hz and under is not so easy and takes higher excursion drivers and more power. Not happening with 6mm pro audio drivers unless you literally fill the room with them.



Another comparison is in your other thread Anyone Own a VBSS Dayton PA460-8 in the OKC area? that is why I asked @eng-399 about his 4 B&C 21s vs the 4 SI HT18s. It is going to take approximately 3 PA460 to equal 1 B&C 21DS. So that is 12 PA460 to = 4 21DS and that is still not equalling the 4 SI 18" in the low-end.



I ran a WINISD of 4 UM18 in 60cf@15hz 1000w pe, and 12 PA460 in 96cf@15hz 100w pe to not exceed Xmax so you can see what they look like for output across the FR. If midbass is more important go with all PA drivers if low-end is the priority go with HT drivers if you want both slamming midbass and low-end run both.



Last note if running Titan XL 615 you might not even need a separate pro audio driver. The thing is running the traditional setup of crossing over at 80hz you take away a lot of the bass and midbass the 615 has to offer. Those pro audio drivers thrive in that 35-40hz and up range.

Anyway, that is just my thought process on it others will differ.
@bscool - great questions. I think the best way I can answer your question is by saying that I want something that is going to have amazing low end output, and of course would sound great all around. As for space consumption with the enclosures, I really don't care as they will be sitting behind an AT wall (at least for the front setup).

From a budget perspective, I have about $2600.00 allocated to the subwoofer cost (with amps included); this is not a hard stop, because I can take from the LCR budget if needed, which is around $2900 with amps included.)

I've used the term married a lot recently; I'm not married to any particular thought or solution. I just want to have a killer sounding HT - balancing performance and cost. I

For the SI 18's, do guides exist that I could follow for creating appropriate ported enclosures? I know in DIYSG's site, they have 18" cubed ported enclosures for 200 dollars, but if there was a clear guide I could follow for creating my own enclosures, I could make that $ go a whole lot further.

What would a steup look like for 4 SI 18's and 4 - 8 PA's (material / components / cost)? This might strike a greater balance with the low's and mids like you were explaining. Just for awareness, I'm looking at the Marantz 7702 for pre-amp.

I could reduce my LCR spend by going down to the 1099s or 1299's as long as those would perform up to snuff, which I think they could from what I've read from other forum members.
@eng-399 - I'm just east of OKC by 20 minutes or so. I would love to hear these different drivers if it were feasible.



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post #14 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
@bscool - great questions. I think the best way I can answer your question is by saying that I want something that is going to have amazing low end output, and of course would sound great all around. As for space consumption with the enclosures, I really don't care as they will be sitting behind an AT wall (at least for the front setup).

From a budget perspective, I have about $2600.00 allocated to the subwoofer cost (with amps included); this is not a hard stop, because I can take from the LCR budget if needed, which is around $2900 with amps included.)

I've used the term married a lot recently; I'm not married to any particular thought or solution. I just want to have a killer sounding HT - balancing performance and cost. I

For the SI 18's, do guides exist that I could follow for creating appropriate ported enclosures? I know in DIYSG's site, they have 18" cubed ported enclosures for 200 dollars, but if there was a clear guide I could follow for creating my own enclosures, I could make that $ go a whole lot further.

What would a steup look like for 4 SI 18's and 4 - 8 PA's (material / components / cost)? This might strike a greater balance with the low's and mids like you were explaining. Just for awareness, I'm looking at the Marantz 7702 for pre-amp.

I could reduce my LCR spend by going down to the 1099s or 1299's as long as those would perform up to snuff, which I think they could from what I've read from other forum members.
@eng-399 - I'm just east of OKC by 20 minutes or so. I would love to hear these different drivers if it were feasible.



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You know even with the Titan I don't really think you need to worry about an additional amp. Like the 1099's and the 1299's they are also 99db/m and should be driveable to "reference" with a normal AVR just keep in mind the Titan615 is a 6 ohm speaker vs the 1299 and 1099 which are both 8 ohm nominal speakers. But something like the Denon X4300W or similar should be able to drive them just fine.
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post #15 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
@bscool - great questions. I think the best way I can answer your question is by saying that I want something that is going to have amazing low end output, and of course would sound great all around. As for space consumption with the enclosures, I really don't care as they will be sitting behind an AT wall (at least for the front setup).

From a budget perspective, I have about $2600.00 allocated to the subwoofer cost (with amps included); this is not a hard stop, because I can take from the LCR budget if needed, which is around $2900 with amps included.)

I've used the term married a lot recently; I'm not married to any particular thought or solution. I just want to have a killer sounding HT - balancing performance and cost. I

For the SI 18's, do guides exist that I could follow for creating appropriate ported enclosures? I know in DIYSG's site, they have 18" cubed ported enclosures for 200 dollars, but if there was a clear guide I could follow for creating my own enclosures, I could make that $ go a whole lot further.

What would a steup look like for 4 SI 18's and 4 - 8 PA's (material / components / cost)? This might strike a greater balance with the low's and mids like you were explaining. Just for awareness, I'm looking at the Marantz 7702 for pre-amp.

I could reduce my LCR spend by going down to the 1099s or 1299's as long as those would perform up to snuff, which I think they could from what I've read from other forum members.
@eng-399 - I'm just east of OKC by 20 minutes or so. I would love to hear these different drivers if it were feasible.



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Just looking at your rough layout again and a few thoughts come into mind.
I know when everyone starts a project they have grand thoughts of hosting many friends and family, but in reality it comes down to you and your family. So I suggest you keep that in mind and make your decisions based on how often you think your family will use it.
By cutting out a second row of theater seats and replacing with a comfortable sofa or couch could save a few grand. Money that can be put toward audio gear. I had a second row couch and kids seem to enjoy that more so than my theater seats. If and when you need more seating a few bean bags and folding chairs will suffice in a pinch. Build his for yourself and don't think of overflow.


I had the 1099's and can say they will most certainly fill your space. Save money where you can and stick into your audio. Not only is a big screen and awesome presentation on it immersive but the audio that accompanies it just make for a jaw dropping experience. You know what I mean when a friend comes over to watch a movie and you see a sickly looking smile on their face almost the whole time.


just my pennies worth
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post #16 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post

For the SI 18's, do guides exist that I could follow for creating appropriate ported enclosures? I know in DIYSG's site, they have 18" cubed ported enclosures for 200 dollars, but if there was a clear guide I could follow for creating my own enclosures, I could make that $ go a whole lot further.

What would a steup look like for 4 SI 18's and 4 - 8 PA's (material / components / cost)? This might strike a greater balance with the low's and mids like you were explaining. Just for awareness, I'm looking at the Marantz 7702 for pre-amp.

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Here's a guide for ported enclosures many people use.
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post #17 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Just looking at your rough layout again and a few thoughts come into mind.
I know when everyone starts a project they have grand thoughts of hosting many friends and family, but in reality it comes down to you and your family. So I suggest you keep that in mind and make your decisions based on how often you think your family will use it.
By cutting out a second row of theater seats and replacing with a comfortable sofa or couch could save a few grand. Money that can be put toward audio gear. I had a second row couch and kids seem to enjoy that more so than my theater seats. If and when you need more seating a few bean bags and folding chairs will suffice in a pinch. Build his for yourself and don't think of overflow.


I had the 1099's and can say they will most certainly fill your space. Save money where you can and stick into your audio. Not only is a big screen and awesome presentation on it immersive but the audio that accompanies it just make for a jaw dropping experience. You know what I mean when a friend comes over to watch a movie and you see a sickly looking smile on their face almost the whole time.


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Like the couch idea.

Yep, the 1099s, 1299s or 615 would fill the room. Could definitely save some money with the 1099s vs the 615s. But, I think he is trying to have some ease of building these, and you can get everything for the 615s from DIYSG. BUT, if you feel up to building speakers Aaron, the 1099s or 1299s would work also.

We need to define what you consider low end output. Are you talking single digit capability? Because that is different that being able to play 15hz and up with authority.
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post #18 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Like the couch idea.

Yep, the 1099s, 1299s or 615 would fill the room. Could definitely save some money with the 1099s vs the 615s. But, I think he is trying to have some ease of building these, and you can get everything for the 615s from DIYSG. BUT, if you feel up to building speakers Aaron, the 1099s or 1299s would work also.

We need to define what you consider low end output. Are you talking single digit capability? Because that is different that being able to play 15hz and up with authority.
I think you hit the nail on the head with "We need to define what you consider low end output" So many people here are chasing that 20hz and below, the bass heads, but on the other hand I think many "normal" people would be happy with the 30hz and up range. Just an opinion of course. I can't count the number of subwoofer build threads where after they build it they are cracking drywall and tile or knocking pictures off the wall on the other side of the house LOL. But with the DIY option it is fairly easy to dip in the sub 30hz range for relatively cheap compared to buying something off the shelf so to speak. I know I am not worried with trying to get below 30hz, but then again I also live in a 70+ year old house on pier and beam, if I tried to get monster sub 30hz spl from a sub I would shake my house apart LOL.
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post #19 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Low end depends on if you're sitting on a concrete slap or not (for the record, I know you know this. That's not really for you)

I've been in lukeamdmans room with his 8 DO 21s and there was nothing low...and his back row is on a riser. We were both disappointed with this. Which, is why he decided to build the LLT cabs. Now, I will say that since he has transitioned 4 or the 8 to a LLT there is significantly more pressure, low and otherwise, in the room now. But, he's got 8 incredible drivers, tons of power and all the necessary skill to build those big LLT boxes.

I agree that a SI 18 will outperform the 460 down low. And, if that's important to Oklahomie, then I agree he should reconsider the 460.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I agree. Just providing another side to the equation. In the end, as you said, it all depends on what he wants.
I agree and I think it depends on what each person defines as low. In this case, I was talking about from around 14hz-25hz is where the SI really pull away. I think even on concrete that is still a frequency range that is important that from what I have seen people say that are on concrete. But I do not know from first-hand experience since I am on a floating/suspended floor. But good point as I hadnt even asked if he were on concrete or not I just assumed ported with the large room size.

On a suspended floor I would say even into the single digits can add some rumble and shake, at least in my room.

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Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
@bscool - great questions. I think the best way I can answer your question is by saying that I want something that is going to have amazing low end output, and of course would sound great all around. As for space consumption with the enclosures, I really don't care as they will be sitting behind an AT wall (at least for the front setup).

From a budget perspective, I have about $2600.00 allocated to the subwoofer cost (with amps included); this is not a hard stop, because I can take from the LCR budget if needed, which is around $2900 with amps included.)

I've used the term married a lot recently; I'm not married to any particular thought or solution. I just want to have a killer sounding HT - balancing performance and cost. I

For the SI 18's, do guides exist that I could follow for creating appropriate ported enclosures? I know in DIYSG's site, they have 18" cubed ported enclosures for 200 dollars, but if there was a clear guide I could follow for creating my own enclosures, I could make that $ go a whole lot further.

What would a steup look like for 4 SI 18's and 4 - 8 PA's (material / components / cost)? This might strike a greater balance with the low's and mids like you were explaining. Just for awareness, I'm looking at the Marantz 7702 for pre-amp.

I could reduce my LCR spend by going down to the 1099s or 1299's as long as those would perform up to snuff, which I think they could from what I've read from other forum members.
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Ok, I but one thing you have to figure out is how much room do you have behind your screen? Depending on the mains you go with. Say, 3 Titans, then you have to figure how much room do you have left for subwoofer enclosures? That is where going with all PA460 can eat up space quickly. if you need 12 of them. I know they wouldn't all go in the front wall just something to think about regardless of which subwoofer you go with. You will be limited to what you can fit behind your front wall.

Also, horn loaded is a good option for higher output but more complex building so I didn't mention them but if you are up for it they would be a great option also.

Something that I saw mention that I would HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend if you can is NEARFIELD subs even just 1 for your MLP. If you ever experience them you will not want to go without out them. They are a GAME changer. Even 1 sealed 18" near-field can give the sensation that it would take a room FULL of subwoofers to recreate. Maybe something builds into a riser firing up or something else if you can(mini wall/drink table behind the main row?) they really do add a lot. Sure you can get something similar with a Crowson but there is something about the bass coming from an actual subwoofer that I prefer over my Crowson but I know they can be difficult to integrate.

As for buying the DIY ported enclosure that is an option but if you are building 4 of them you can save a lot of $$ building your own following a Marty Design or start another thread listing your exact dimensions you have available and people will help you and you will have a cut list that you can easily follow if you know how to use a saw and have some wood clamps and some other basic tools.

I am just throwing some rough # out off the top of my head but I would think 4 PA460 and 4 SI HT18 would be $1000. Amps mmm 3 Inuke 6000 or possibly Inuke NU4 6000s(4 channel) may work better? Anyway $1000. Plus material for enclosures. Ill say $75-100 per enclosure=$800. So $2800 guesstimate.

The reason I would go Inuke 6000 over 3000 is 1 future expandability incase you decide you want more than the PA460 give you have more power for another sub that can take more like a B&C or more SI HT18s or UM18 etc and also the 6000 will be less stressed putting out say 800watts@4ohm than the 3000 will 800watts@4ohm. You could save around $250-300 going with the INuke 3000 but I wouldn't if you can make the INuke 6000 or NU4 6000 work in your application. More headroom going with the bigger amp and you always turn it down or set a limiter if you have too much power but if you don't have enough you cant turn it up more and for only another $300 I would take the extra "cushion".

Also if I want with PA460 I would not tune them to 15or 18hz like many do. You lose so much top end where they are most efficient. I would do something like a 35-40hz tune for them. That is what I did with my B&C 18TBW100. I have tried lower tunes and I feel it gives up too much midbass and I prefer the higher output in the midbass area.

I'll include a WINISD of the lower tune PA460 vs the higher tune. Again this is just how I would do things and my reasoning I know many people do it differently. And maybe their way would work better with tuning them all lower at say 15-18hz. There are reasons and benefits and drawback to each method. To really know you would have to do both setups in your actual room and see which you prefer and works best which most people won't do.

Also threw in 4 ported Si HT18s in 28cf@18 to compare, really not getting more midbass from the PA460 when you limit PE with the lower tune to not exceed xmass. That is why I prefer a higher tune on PA sub/woofers. 4 PA460 are in 28cf@18hz 150w pe, 4 PA40 in 28cf@35hz 250w pe both set to limit excursion to just over 6mm.
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post #20 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Like the couch idea.



Yep, the 1099s, 1299s or 615 would fill the room. Could definitely save some money with the 1099s vs the 615s. But, I think he is trying to have some ease of building these, and you can get everything for the 615s from DIYSG. BUT, if you feel up to building speakers Aaron, the 1099s or 1299s would work also.



We need to define what you consider low end output. Are you talking single digit capability? Because that is different that being able to play 15hz and up with authority.

Yes, the 615's are a sticking point as I would have less to screw up . Oh boy, regarding the low end output, playing 15hz and up with authority would suffice. Not ever having a setup that played single digits, I would never feel like I was "without" or missing something.


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post #21 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I agree and I think it depends on what each person defines as low. In this case, I was talking about from around 14hz-25hz is where the SI really pull away. I think even on concrete that is still a frequency range that is important that from what I have seen people say that are on concrete. But I do not know from first-hand experience since I am on a floating/suspended floor. But good point as I hadnt even asked if he were on concrete or not I just assumed ported with the large room size.



On a suspended floor I would say even into the single digits can add some rumble and shake, at least in my room.







Ok, I but one thing you have to figure out is how much room do you have behind your screen? Depending on the mains you go with. Say, 3 Titans, then you have to figure how much room do you have left for subwoofer enclosures? That is where going with all PA460 can eat up space quickly. if you need 12 of them. I know they wouldn't all go in the front wall just something to think about regardless of which subwoofer you go with. You will be limited to what you can fit behind your front wall.



Also, horn loaded is a good option for higher output but more complex building so I didn't mention them but if you are up for it they would be a great option also.



Something that I saw mention that I would HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend if you can is NEARFIELD subs even just 1 for your MLP. If you ever experience them you will not want to go without out them. They are a GAME changer. Even 1 sealed 18" near-field can give the sensation that it would take a room FULL of subwoofers to recreate. Maybe something builds into a riser firing up or something else if you can(mini wall/drink table behind the main row?) they really do add a lot. Sure you can get something similar with a Crowson but there is something about the bass coming from an actual subwoofer that I prefer over my Crowson but I know they can be difficult to integrate.



As for buying the DIY ported enclosure that is an option but if you are building 4 of them you can save a lot of $$ building your own following a Marty Design or start another thread listing your exact dimensions you have available and people will help you and you will have a cut list that you can easily follow if you know how to use a saw and have some wood clamps and some other basic tools.



I am just throwing some rough # out off the top of my head but I would think 4 PA460 and 4 SI HT18 would be $1000. Amps mmm 3 Inuke 6000 or possibly Inuke NU4 6000s(4 channel) may work better? Anyway $1000. Plus material for enclosures. Ill say $75-100 per enclosure=$800. So $2800 guesstimate.



The reason I would go Inuke 6000 over 3000 is 1 future expandability incase you decide you want more than the PA460 give you have more power for another sub that can take more like a B&C or more SI HT18s or UM18 etc and also the 6000 will be less stressed putting out say 800watts@4ohm than the 3000 will 800watts@4ohm. You could save around $250-300 going with the INuke 3000 but I wouldn't if you can make the INuke 6000 or NU4 6000 work in your application. More headroom going with the bigger amp and you always turn it down or set a limiter if you have too much power but if you don't have enough you cant turn it up more and for only another $300 I would take the extra "cushion".



Also if I want with PA460 I would not tune them to 15or 18hz like many do. You lose so much top end where they are most efficient. I would do something like a 35-40hz tune for them. That is what I did with my B&C 18TBW100. I have tried lower tunes and I feel it gives up too much midbass and I prefer the higher output in the midbass area.



I'll include a WINISD of the lower tune PA460 vs the higher tune. Again this is just how I would do things and my reasoning I know many people do it differently. And maybe their way would work better with tuning them all lower at say 15-18hz. There are reasons and benefits and drawback to each method. To really know you would have to do both setups in your actual room and see which you prefer and works best which most people won't do.



Also threw in 4 ported Si HT18s in 28cf@18 to compare, really not getting more midbass from the PA460 when you limit PE with the lower tune to not exceed xmass. That is why I prefer a higher tune on PA sub/woofers. 4 PA460 are in 28cf@18hz 150w pe, 4 PA40 in 28cf@35hz 250w pe both set to limit excursion to just over 6mm.


From a space perspective, I should have enough room for whatever I want - up front and throughout the room.

Would 4 ported SI HT18's and 4 ported PA 460s up front behind the AT wall and then some near fields throughout be solid?

Any suggestions for near field subs?


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post #22 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 01:15 PM
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Little note on the Inukes http://www.vipproaudio.com/ and http://www.northernsoundandlight.com/ will save you around 15% off compared to most places like Amazon. VIP you can make offer, around 15% off their listed price is about what they will accept. NSL you have to register to see prices and they charge extra for shipping where VIP is free. There are other places to get a similar deal but that is two I know of.

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Don't mean to derail this thread, but I've seen it mentioned a couple times here. What are the differences in sub considerations between a concrete floor and a raised floor? Is it just the increase in the bass you can feel? Do people switch between sealed/ported based on the room? I'm planning on building a theater on a raised floor so it got me curious. If there is a thread about it that someone knows about that would be great.
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post #24 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahomie View Post
From a space perspective, I should have enough room for whatever I want - up front and throughout the room.

Would 4 ported SI HT18's and 4 ported PA 460s up front behind the AT wall and then some near fields throughout be solid?

Any suggestions for near field subs?


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I dont know, how big of a bass head are you? Most people 8 18s would be way more than enough and other people it is just a start. You really wont know until you get things built and see for yourself. You kind of get use to the bass also. LIke you might go hear someones setup with 2-4 18s and be BLOWN away. But then if you have the same setup and hear it day after day some people get use to it and want more. But then you see people on here happy with 1 15" subwoofer.

From the vibe I get from you I take it you have HIGH expectations. So 8 18's is probably a good start. Only time will tell.

I see you talk about wanting output down to 15hz. I really don't know if the 4 PA460 are going to add much. I mean it is not like you will be listening very often to 135dB at 60hz+ but I would bet there be more times you want to hear the 15-25hz range at 120db.

8 SI HT are going to give you as much midbass as you need in relation to the deep bass I would think. Maybe make a post asking guys that have 8 18" HT home theater subs of they feel they could use more midbass and see what they say.

I have never had that so I cannot speak from first-hand experience but I think you would have midbass covered in spades with 8 SI HT18. That is a LOT OF FREAKIN bass in all areas LOL, low, mid and upper bass.

It really is hard to give advice because I love the sound of the pro audio woofers but I am mostly music. But there was a time not too long ago I added the UM18 sealed in nearfield behind my seat and had a Seaton Submersive up front and a XS30 in the front stacked and I was VERY happy with that all around for music that went into the teens all the way up to the midbass it sounded and "felt" great to me.

But then a couple weeks ago I added the B&C 18TBW100 back in on top of the UM18 near-field and it added another element to the bass and I really do love the sound and IMPACT from the PA driver like the B&C but even the sealed subs get me 90%+ of the way there.

So in subwoofer equivalent, I have right around 3-4 18" in my room currently taking out the B&C and I think most people would be pretty happy with it output wise. But the near-field added a LOT and I am also on a supsended floor so the near fields can be a "trip" literally bouncing my hand off of the side table I use as my mouse pad on low bass hits.

So long story I think 8 SI 18 you would be impressed and very happy with. Look at @carp that is guy is a FREAKIN basshead and 8 SI are enough for him(or is it 9?). I think you would be better off with all SI over the added in 460s looking at the output # in WINISD. I know I am contradicting myself from earlier when I said to mix them, just trying to take everything into account.

But I know WINISD is not as accurate compared to hornresp because of inductance. Maybe get someonethat is good with hornresp like @diy speaker guy or @LTD02 to model the SI HT 18 vs PA460 in hornresp because they know more about lossy inductance and they can give you a more accurate prediction on real-world output. Maybe the SI HT 18 won't have as much output in the midbass as WINISD show when it has the lossy inductance accounted for.

As for nearfield. I like sealed because it can be a smaller enclosure and easier to make fit but ported can be a little better for tactile feel around port tune. I would use the SI HT 18 for nearfield.

Sorry, I can't be of more help I know some but I know there is a lot I do not know other here will be able to give you more accurate info. I don't want to lead you astray. Plus a lot of what I say is my opinion based my experiences, so take it with a grain of salt.
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post #25 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twedter View Post
Don't mean to derail this thread, but I've seen it mentioned a couple times here. What are the differences in sub considerations between a concrete floor and a raised floor? Is it just the increase in the bass you can feel? Do people switch between sealed/ported based on the room? I'm planning on building a theater on a raised floor so it got me curious. If there is a thread about it that someone knows about that would be great.
Yeah basically from what I have read most on concrete don't feel it is worth aiming for output below around 15hz. Because you can not move it the same way you can on a suspended floor. Most recommend ported for concrete or large rooms in general. That just guideline nothing set in stone.

I don't have experience on concrete but suspended floor a nearfield sub and even fair field subs with enough of them and if powerful enough can make it feel like the floor is "rolling" like a wave under you. Pretty cool feeling. But at the minimum, they will shake the floor that adds to the experience in most peoples opinions.

I have seen some people say they felt that the bass was more "accurate" or "realistic" on concrete as the floor didn't move. They prefer to feel the impact on the body, clothes and chair and not the floor moving.

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post #26 of 37 Old 08-21-2017, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I dont know, how big of a bass head are you? Most people 8 18s would be way more than enough and other people it is just a start. You really wont know until you get things built and see for yourself. You kind of get use to the bass also. LIke you might go hear someones setup with 2-4 18s and be BLOWN away. But then if you have the same setup and hear it day after day some people get use to it and want more. But then you see people on here happy with 1 15" subwoofer.

From the vibe I get from you I take it you have HIGH expectations. So 8 18's is probably a good start. Only time will tell.

I see you talk about wanting output down to 15hz. I really don't know if the 4 PA460 are going to add much. I mean it is not like you will be listening very often to 135dB at 60hz+ but I would bet there be more times you want to hear the 15-25hz range at 120db.

8 SI HT are going to give you as much midbass as you need in relation to the deep bass I would think. Maybe make a post asking guys that have 8 18" HT home theater subs of they feel they could use more midbass and see what they say.

I have never had that so I cannot speak from first-hand experience but I think you would have midbass covered in spades with 8 SI HT18. That is a LOT OF FREAKIN bass in all areas LOL, low, mid and upper bass.

It really is hard to give advice because I love the sound of the pro audio woofers but I am mostly music. But there was a time not too long ago I added the UM18 sealed in nearfield behind my seat and had a Seaton Submersive up front and a XS30 in the front stacked and I was VERY happy with that all around for music that went into the teens all the way up to the midbass it sounded and "felt" great to me.

But then a couple weeks ago I added the B&C 18TBW100 back in on top of the UM18 near-field and it added another element to the bass and I really do love the sound and IMPACT from the PA driver like the B&C but even the sealed subs get me 90%+ of the way there.

So in subwoofer equivalent, I have right around 3-4 18" in my room currently taking out the B&C and I think most people would be pretty happy with it output wise. But the near-field added a LOT and I am also on a supsended floor so the near fields can be a "trip" literally bouncing my hand off of the side table I use as my mouse pad on low bass hits.

So long story I think 8 SI 18 you would be impressed and very happy with. Look at @carp that is guy is a FREAKIN basshead and 8 SI are enough for him(or is it 9?). I think you would be better off with all SI over the added in 460s looking at the output # in WINISD. I know I am contradicting myself from earlier when I said to mix them, just trying to take everything into account.

But I know WINISD is not as accurate compared to hornresp because of inductance. Maybe get someonethat is good with hornresp like @diy speaker guy or @LTD02 to model the SI HT 18 vs PA460 in hornresp because they know more about lossy inductance and they can give you a more accurate prediction on real-world output. Maybe the SI HT 18 won't have as much output in the midbass as WINISD show when it has the lossy inductance accounted for.

As for nearfield. I like sealed because it can be a smaller enclosure and easier to make fit but ported can be a little better for tactile feel around port tune. I would use the SI HT 18 for nearfield.

Sorry, I can't be of more help I know some but I know there is a lot I do not know other here will be able to give you more accurate info. I don't want to lead you astray. Plus a lot of what I say is my opinion based my experiences, so take it with a grain of salt.
You have been extremely helpful. On paper, and from the responses I've received, I think the SI HT18 is a good balance of horsepower and cost, and will hit all of the ranges I need it to. 8 of them would be killer... So, if I'm understanding this correctly, would 2 iNUKE NU4-6000's be appropriate? It's unclear to me what the Ohms are of that driver (on the website it says that the SI HT v2 18 is dual 2 ohm), so does that mean the iNUKE would be ran at 4ohms per channel, and at what RMS?
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post #27 of 37 Old 08-22-2017, 01:28 PM
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You have been extremely helpful. On paper, and from the responses I've received, I think the SI HT18 is a good balance of horsepower and cost, and will hit all of the ranges I need it to. 8 of them would be killer... So, if I'm understanding this correctly, would 2 iNUKE NU4-6000's be appropriate? It's unclear to me what the Ohms are of that driver (on the website it says that the SI HT v2 18 is dual 2 ohm), so does that mean the iNUKE would be ran at 4ohms per channel, and at what RMS?

Maybe others will give you some input on amps. That drawback about the Inuke NU4 6000 is no DSP so you would have to use a Mini DSP or something like it. Also IMO, it is kind of an odd load(the 2ohm DVC) to run off of the Inukes. I mean it will work but I would want to give each one close to 1000watts or have that available. Because 600 watts per driver is not even getting them close to using all of their Xmax. 600 watts is probably ok but I always like to have a little extra head room and not having to run the amps at full tilt. Note that they are only "rated" at 600 watts, so it is up to you how much power you want to give them.

Also even though they are rated as 2-ohm dvc most subs measure higher as in if you parallel the voice coils on a single SI it is closer to 2ohms than 1ohm. Same thing with when you wire them in series they are not 4 ohm usually a little higher and closer to 5+ ohm(for most of the FR played by most people) and much higher through most of the FR. You can see this looking at Databass of impedance measurements on subwoofers Josh has tested and measured.

So I see your options are 1 Inuke 6000DSP with 4 SI HT 18" off each channel that will give you a 4ohm "load". But remember that is the minimum impedance and you won't see that with ported subs. Another option and much more power is a Sanway clone I think they are around $7-800, not sure since I don't know much about them and then you need a Mini DSP also.

So check into other amplifier options or you could try the single Inuke 60000DSP and see if it is enough for you and if not sell it and get a bigger amp later. But even a bigger amp is probably only going to give you a few more dB which doesn't seem like a lot but it can be if you can having to run your subs/amp on the edge of what you want for output that extra 3 dB headroom can mean a lot. Just depends if you need it or not.

Another option is the Inuke 12000($775? from VIP) you could do 4 SI per channel @ around 4200watts/around 1000w per sub. Again no DSP and I think it should have a 20 amp or better circuit. But then it shouldn't be any different, than people who run 2 Inkuke 6000 off the same 15-20 amp circuit, it is basically 2 Inkue 6000 in one case. Some people do not have problems with tripping a breaker but some do. I run an Inuke 3000 and 6000 along with a Submersive, XS30 and my projector and Sunfire amp all off of a 15 amp circuit and haven't tripped it(knock on wood). And I have played short demo clips for friends past reference levels

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iNuke 3000 & 6000 DSP's, Crowson Motion Actuator
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post #28 of 37 Old 08-22-2017, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe others will give you some input on amps. That drawback about the Inuke NU4 6000 is no DSP so you would have to use a Mini DSP or something like it. Also IMO, it is kind of an odd load(the 2ohm DVC) to run off of the Inukes. I mean it will work but I would want to give each one close to 1000watts or have that available. Because 600 watts per driver is not even getting them close to using all of their Xmax. 600 watts is probably ok but I always like to have a little extra head room and not having to run the amps at full tilt. Note that they are only "rated" at 600 watts, so it is up to you how much power you want to give them.



Also even though they are rated as 2-ohm dvc most subs measure higher as in if you parallel the voice coils on a single SI it is closer to 2ohms than 1ohm. Same thing with when you wire them in series they are not 4 ohm usually a little higher and closer to 5+ ohm(for most of the FR played by most people) and much higher through most of the FR. You can see this looking at Databass of impedance measurements on subwoofers Josh has tested and measured.



So I see your options are 1 Inuke 6000DSP with 4 SI HT 18" off each channel that will give you a 4ohm "load". But remember that is the minimum impedance and you won't see that with ported subs. Another option and much more power is a Sanway clone I think they are around $7-800, not sure since I don't know much about them and then you need a Mini DSP also.



So check into other amplifier options or you could try the single Inuke 60000DSP and see if it is enough for you and if not sell it and get a bigger amp later. But even a bigger amp is probably only going to give you a few more dB which doesn't seem like a lot but it can be if you can having to run your subs/amp on the edge of what you want for output that extra 3 dB headroom can mean a lot. Just depends if you need it or not.



Another option is the Inuke 12000($775? from VIP) you could do 4 SI per channel @ around 4200watts/around 1000w per sub. Again no DSP and I think it should have a 20 amp or better circuit. But then it shouldn't be any different, than people who run 2 Inkuke 6000 off the same 15-20 amp circuit, it is basically 2 Inkue 6000 in one case. Some people do not have problems with tripping a breaker but some do. I run an Inuke 3000 and 6000 along with a Submersive, XS30 and my projector and Sunfire amp all off of a 15 amp circuit and haven't tripped it(knock on wood). And I have played short demo clips for friends past reference levels


I'm not going to lie, you have me lost a little bit, but that is OK; mainly my lack of knowledge with amp technology and concepts . I'm not entirely worried about cost for the amp; I am more concerned with getting the right amp(s) that will push all 8 drivers to their potential.




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post #29 of 37 Old 08-22-2017, 06:19 PM
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I'm not going to lie, you have me lost a little bit, but that is OK; mainly my lack of knowledge with amp technology and concepts . I'm not entirely worried about cost for the amp; I am more concerned with getting the right amp(s) that will push all 8 drivers to their potential.

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What do you have available for wall outlets? 15amp 20amp 1, 2, 4? Because like I said some people do not have any issues running multiple amps off of one 15 or 20amp circuit but then some guys have multiple 20amp lines put in and some even 220v for those big amps.

Here is the Sanways https://www.china-sanway.com/FP14000...-pd393583.html

Oh, another thing is will you have a separate room for the amps or is fan noise an issue? Those clones are loud from what I have heard if you need quiet amps. I don't know if people put quieter fans in or not. I don't keep up on them as I don't have one. Same thing with Inukes is you can put quiter fans in for around $20 for some quiet Noctuas. That is what I did and they are pretty much silent.

Here is the clone amp thread Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers

I can try to look into them more if someone doesn't help you or you can post in the clone thread and ask them what to get as I do not know how accurate the clones power ratings are(just tell them how many subs you plan on using and the models so they know what to recommend). The Inukes manufacturer's power # are inflated.

This one might work also https://www.china-sanway.com/FP10000...-pd808713.html like I said I do not know much about the clones but I heard they are the best power to $ ratio.

This site will help you understand wiring DVC subs and how it changes impedance if you want to look at it. https://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/w...s.asp?Q=2&I=22 Use the little boxes up at the top right to change to how many speakers you want per channel and then DVC 2 ohm.

Edit note. looks like the Sanways also come in a DSP model. I didn't link to those though. But they might be an option, not sure how good there DSP is.
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HTPC, Sony 40es, 120" Silver Ticket, 7702mkii, Sunfire Amp 225w, JBL 590, JBL 520

PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive, 2 Um-18 8cf sealed, Outlaw Ultra x 12, Kappa Pro 18LF, BFM Tuba 60 horn, B&C 18TBW100 6cf 41hz, 34hz, 28hz tune

iNuke 3000 & 6000 DSP's, Crowson Motion Actuator
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post #30 of 37 Old 08-22-2017, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you have available for wall outlets? 15amp 20amp 1, 2, 4? Because like I said some people do not have any issues running multiple amps off of one 15 or 20amp circuit but then some guys have multiple 20amp lines put in and some even 220v for those big amps.

Here is the Sanways https://www.china-sanway.com/FP14000...-pd393583.html

Oh, another thing is will you have a separate room for the amps or is fan noise an issue? Those clones are loud from what I have heard if you need quiet amps. I don't know if people put quieter fans in or not. I don't keep up on them as I don't have one. Same thing with Inukes is you can put quiter fans in for around $20 for some quiet Noctuas. That is what I did and they are pretty much silent.

Here is the clone amp thread Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers

I can try to look into them more if someone doesn't help you or you can post in the clone thread and ask them what to get as I do not know how accurate the clones power ratings are(just tell them how many subs you plan on using and the models so they know what to recommend). The Inukes manufacturer's power # are inflated.

This one might work also https://www.china-sanway.com/FP10000...-pd808713.html like I said I do not know much about the clones but I heard they are the best power to $ ratio.

This site will help you understand wiring DVC subs and how it changes impedance if you want to look at it. https://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/w...s.asp?Q=2&I=22 Use the little boxes up at the top right to change to how many speakers you want per channel and then DVC 2 ohm.

Edit note. looks like the Sanways also come in a DSP model. I didn't link to those though. But they might be an option, not sure how good there DSP is.
I can have whatever amp circuits I need, as I'm in the design phase of this project. Once I figure out all of the stuff that I need, I'm going to tell my builder what my needs are, and he'll figure it out.

As for the separate room - yes, I will have a dedicated closet that will be out of side, and out of mind, so that the noise generated from the A/V equipment will not be a bother.

If I ran 4 iNUKE 3000DSP's - using a Y XLR splitter out of the pre-amp, that would provide 2 x 1500 Watts of power per amp. Would that work you think?
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