Jk's 1099 build thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 72 Old 09-09-2017, 08:39 PM
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I went through the veneer / finish process, and found some things that worked quite well:

For starters, HeatLock glue is great. Just coat substrate and veneer, wait til it is 'just dry', and iron it on. Way better than contact cement. Trim and clean up the corners. Sand lightly.

Stain next. If your baffle is already glued on, make sure to mask it's edges before you stain the veneer Make sure the species of wood will take a stain well. For instance, cherry absorbs the stain more in some places than others, resulting in 'blotches'. Not good. Oak stains very well, as do several others.

Wipe-on finish is a great approach. I have used an oil based polyurethane for several projects with great results. It protects the veneer a bit more than pure oils, although the tung oil looked really nice too. Whatever you use, put on more coats than you think you need - easier now, than later. After the veneer is finished and dried, you will mask it before painting the baffle. Water based paint will be a lot easier to clean up, if you get sloppy. Many choices here, but use a roller. I'll never use a brush again!

Have fun!
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post #32 of 72 Old 09-09-2017, 09:25 PM
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I used contact cement and veneered all three 1099s in an afternoon. I had a bit of an assembly line going, and with contact cement you can trim the edge right away. I coarse trimmed with a down spiral flush trim router bit and went back later to clean up the edges with straight razor blades. If you use paper back veneer you will probably see the paper line, so you need to think about the sequence and how it will impact where you might see a line. For example you probably want to do the bottom, then back, then sides, top and finally the front. With contact cement you don't get a second chance once it sticks, so you should practice and try to really take your time. Veneer is pretty easy though overall.
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post #33 of 72 Old 09-10-2017, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips. I'll start veneer next week sometime. I'll post how it goes.
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post #34 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 05:05 AM
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You can do the same iron technique with regular titebond. Just apply to both sides and let dry, then iron the veneer. Sticks like crazy. I think you thin the glue a bit. Also whatever you use, dowels between the surfaces will let you line it up, then pull dowels and stick it.

I like a straight flush bit, spirals seem to make more of a mess of the edge but that could just be the bit I used.

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post #35 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
You can do the same iron technique with regular titebond. Just apply to both sides and let dry, then iron the veneer. Sticks like crazy. I think you thin the glue a bit. Also whatever you use, dowels between the surfaces will let you line it up, then pull dowels and stick it.

I like a straight flush bit, spirals seem to make more of a mess of the edge but that could just be the bit I used.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I think I'm gonna use contact cement. I want to be able to stick it and trim within 15 min or so and get a few panels done for a couple days in a row. The tung oil route is definitely the way i am going. I started asking my friends about it and one of my friends did his whole floor in his house with it and it looks fantastic.
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post #36 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 09:57 AM
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I second the use of dowel rods. Makes it easy to align the veneer and then just start pulling the rods out pressing as you go along.

I used a flush cut bit in my router for my 1299's. It will leave a bit of paper (if you are using paper backed veneer) and just a tad bit of extra veneer along the edge. A random orbital sander made quick work of all of that for me!
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post #37 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 10:18 AM
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I used wax paper when I did my veneer. It allowed me to get the veneer on the substrate so I could better align it as I only had a quarter inch hangover on each side. Same concept and process as the dowels.
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post #38 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Witchboard View Post
I used wax paper when I did my veneer. It allowed me to get the veneer on the substrate so I could better align it as I only had a quarter inch hangover on each side. Same concept and process as the dowels.
Nice tip. I like this idea mostly because I'm using Duratex on the baffle and I have to get that edge dead on. No chance for a trim after. Unless I don't round over the baffle. Could I veneer everything 1/4" overhang including over the baffle, flush trim, then roundover, and Duratex right to the veneer? Or will that mess up my paper backed veneer. I should do a test run on everything I'm thinking. But with all of your awesome help I feel confident going for it.
Another idea/question. How would a duratex baffle look without a roundover, just a square edge transition to the veneer?
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post #39 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 12:02 PM
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A square edge transition looks good - and it makes it easier to add grill covers, if desired. If I knew I was not going to use grills, I probably would use a round over.

Just curious about the tung oil. Will it be the kind that contains varnish, or 'pure' tung oil? I have used both, and would favor the one that contains varnish. (most of them do)
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post #40 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scary1 View Post
A square edge transition looks good - and it makes it easier to add grill covers, if desired. If I knew I was not going to use grills, I probably would use a round over.

Just curious about the tung oil. Will it be the kind that contains varnish, or 'pure' tung oil? I have used both, and would favor the one that contains varnish. (most of them do)
Ok thanks. I do plan on grills.
I was planning on the pure tung oil. That's what my friend recommended. He's gonna come over and drink my scotch while we stain them. I want dark but not shiny. So maybe 6-8 coats.
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post #41 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
Nice tip. I like this idea mostly because I'm using Duratex on the baffle and I have to get that edge dead on. No chance for a trim after. Unless I don't round over the baffle. Could I veneer everything 1/4" overhang including over the baffle, flush trim, then roundover, and Duratex right to the veneer? Or will that mess up my paper backed veneer. I should do a test run on everything I'm thinking. But with all of your awesome help I feel confident going for it.
Another idea/question. How would a duratex baffle look without a roundover, just a square edge transition to the veneer?
If you plan on doing a round over, I would think you would veneer first, then do the round over. Masking the veneer on a round over may be a bit tricky. You may want to consider running some painters tape where the round over will run on the veneer. It may not only help with splits, but could also be used for the masking for paint.

Mine has no round over where the baffle meets the veneer. The process I used was to first prime the baffle, then I veneered the sides, then I masked off the veneer and painted the baffle. It was easy for me to mask because I just put the tape 1/4" over the baffle then cut the overhang flush with a razor to the face.
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post #42 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 07:12 PM
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Enjoy the Scotch. Hmm, tough call - Scotch first, then stain.. or..
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post #43 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I think I'm gonna use contact cement. I want to be able to stick it and trim within 15 min or so and get a few panels done for a couple days in a row. The tung oil route is definitely the way i am going. I started asking my friends about it and one of my friends did his whole floor in his house with it and it looks fantastic.
You can trim as soon as you finish ironing. There is no difference in the process except you will kill fewer brain cells with titebond. I used the heat lock stuff once and it seems almost exactly like titebond. Also titebond is less expensive in gallons. Take a small piece of veneer and try it if you're unsure but after using titebond I can't see using contact cement, it's very unpleasant and flammable to boot. All you do is thin some titebond, roll it on, let dry, then iron. Now with non backed veneer it may not be the way to go, the paper is pretty waterproof, so on raw veneer I don't know it may waffle the veneer.

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post #44 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 08:27 PM
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this is the cement I used - I worked outside in the yard but never noticed any odor and have no complaints. For comparison the contact cement I use for bike tires has a heavy solvent smell.

https://www.veneersupplies.com/produ...ct-Cement.html

I never used the heat activated glue but thought that you need to wait a couple hours for it to set before you should trim the edge? I have never tried to round over into existing veneer, but it seems like you'd risk getting a ragged edge.
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post #45 of 72 Old 09-11-2017, 09:29 PM
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There is water based contact cement also, so no smell , but still tricky
about 15 minutes for a recoat and then it's alignment and rollers time . .

the pic is 2 mm speaker cover non-ratfur cloth over the ply of the THTLP's,

2 coats on both the ply and the fabric, hand brushed and tamped with a padded wooden block "as you go" when applying

some edges were slightly rounded for uniformity, 1/2" plywood being the joy to work with as it is,

the usage of tape for overlapping edges essential to control glue lines . .

where's the pics?
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post #46 of 72 Old 09-12-2017, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate all the advice. I'm still thinking contact cement. I'll use it in the garage and crack the door for the fumes. I just don't want to get into the iron and guessing. (I know the tite bond glue will work, it's just me) Now that I have decided to leave the baffle edges square, it simplifies the process enough that I'm comfortable now. Glad I ditched the laminate in favor of the real wood product. It's gonna look fantastic. Would you guys thin the duratex for the baffle? I'm not looking for crazy texture.
As far as pics, nothing exciting to show. Just two speakers ready to sand, crossovers installed, baffle glued on, and cabs lined.
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post #47 of 72 Old 09-12-2017, 09:05 AM
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It's going to look great. As you can see from the many posts, there are lots of ways to skin a cat.

My favorite way to paint a baffle is this stuff by General Finishes called Milk Paint. (Lamp Black) Use a foam weenie roller. Looks great. Easy
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the baffle is mdf . .
i've experimented with smaller pieces and dtex- and yes, you can roll , the hedgehog roller they supply can hide any imperfections
that's what it's designed to do

before attaching the baffle I prefer several light coats of rattle can Kilz and sanding to seal it

reminds me of Seinfeld repeats - sucks beyond belief,

and,then as advised as above, you can get a basketball like smooth pebble finish using a foam roller with minor thinning but
not in the sun and a cooler day gives you more open time for a light touch so you don't get that off-angle "D'tex stripe" effect.
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post #49 of 72 Old 09-12-2017, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scary1 View Post
It's going to look great. As you can see from the many posts, there are lots of ways to skin a cat.

My favorite way to paint a baffle is this stuff by General Finishes called Milk Paint. (Lamp Black) Use a foam weenie roller. Looks great. Easy
This post made me giggle. Lol
Weenie roller. Hahaha.
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post #50 of 72 Old 09-12-2017, 09:20 PM
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I hate it when people laugh at my weenie.
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post #51 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 03:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scary1 View Post
I hate it when people laugh at my weenie.
Well thanks for putting that out there. So here is my plan after reading and talking to all of you and my buddies.
Next steps
1, sand all three speakers
2, prime baffle front, remember no roundover
3, sand the panels next to the baffle in case any primer leaked over the edge
4, veneer the cab backs first, then bottoms, then sides and finally tops.
5, finish veneer with 10,000 coats of tung oil, or however many required to achieve the color I want
6, duratex baffles. I'll most likely thin it and apply with a smooth roller to lessen the texture.
7, paint driver recesses black and install drivers and ports.
I hope this is all the right way to go. If not please straighten me out.
If anyone has a suggestion of magnets to imbed into the baffle corners that are strong enough to hold on a grill, please share. I need to get those installed and filled before I get to step one.
Thanks again for the help so far.

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post #52 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 09:32 AM
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Looks like you have a good plan. Your thoughtful approach will pay off.

I arrived at a system that worked out well for the grills -
1/2" BB plywood, 45 deg bevels, 1" margin at the edges
The speaker cloth is held on with screen door rope in a groove you cut with your table saw, 1/2" from the outer edge. A hot glue gun is helpful to tighten up the corners.
I got the magnets from PE. Transfer the layout from the grill frame to the baffle carefully, cause they will hold the grill exactly where the magnets align. Sink them deep enough to paint over
Be sure to cut the bevel before cutting out the middle, so your router will be easy to control
You will spend lots of time on these, filling, sanding, etc, But worth it

Let me know if this is not clear
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post #53 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scary1 View Post
Looks like you have a good plan. Your thoughtful approach will pay off.

I arrived at a system that worked out well for the grills -
1/2" BB plywood, 45 deg bevels, 1" margin at the edges
The speaker cloth is held on with screen door rope in a groove you cut with your table saw, 1/2" from the outer edge. A hot glue gun is helpful to tighten up the corners.
I got the magnets from PE. Transfer the layout from the grill frame to the baffle carefully, cause they will hold the grill exactly where the magnets align. Sink them deep enough to paint over
Be sure to cut the bevel before cutting out the middle, so your router will be easy to control
You will spend lots of time on these, filling, sanding, etc, But worth it

Let me know if this is not clear
Awesome. You couldn't be more clear. Thanks for the rundown. I'll do everything exactly how you suggested. I plan on taking my time for sure on the grills. I thought about the parts express grill kits too. Any experience with those?
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post #54 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 10:49 AM
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Good for you for stepping up to veneer! I'm still a little too chicken to try it myself. I'll be watching to see how this turns out, but I'm sure they'll look fantastic. BTW, am I the only one who can't see pics?
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post #55 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Good for you for stepping up to veneer! I'm still a little too chicken to try it myself. I'll be watching to see how this turns out, but I'm sure they'll look fantastic. BTW, am I the only one who can't see pics?
Thanks. I'm glad I went with veneer also. I bought laminate and it just looks cheap. Veneer will look great. Hopefully I don't screw it up!
I can see all the pics. Mine and the ones posted by others.
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post #56 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I just spent 100 bucks on magnets at parts express. I got 3/4" discs to imbed in the baffles and 1/2" countersunk for the grill. My thought is that the difference in size will allow for grill adjustments. We shall see. My layout skills are up to the task I think.
So should I just drill the holes and glue the mags in on the baffle? Then cover with wood filler or something else?
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post #57 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 03:00 PM
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Awesome. You couldn't be more clear. Thanks for the rundown. I'll do everything exactly how you suggested. I plan on taking my time for sure on the grills. I thought about the parts express grill kits too. Any experience with those?
Haven't tried the PE grills, but saw a post by someone who liked his. YMMV
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post #58 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 03:08 PM
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Yes - just glue them in deep enough that you can cover with a thin layer of wood filler. The magnets are hella strong, so be sure you use a glue that is compatible with the metal. (I managed to have the magnet pull out of the epoxy on one of mine)
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Yes - just glue them in deep enough that you can cover with a thin layer of wood filler. The magnets are hella strong, so be sure you use a glue that is compatible with the metal. (I managed to have the magnet pull out of the epoxy on one of mine)
Any recommendations on a glue?
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post #60 of 72 Old 09-13-2017, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
I just spent 100 bucks on magnets at parts express. I got 3/4" discs to imbed in the baffles and 1/2" countersunk for the grill. My thought is that the difference in size will allow for grill adjustments. We shall see. My layout skills are up to the task I think.
So should I just drill the holes and glue the mags in on the baffle? Then cover with wood filler or something else?
Wow that's a lot for just magnets. I have used these guys before, much more reasonable prices:
http://www.magnet4sale.com/index.php
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