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post #31 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ggroch View Post
I just ran into my first anomaly with the DIY2.2 instructions. In the parts list the 1.5 Ohm resistor is listed as R1 and the 6.8 Ohm as R2.

However, in the photos of the finished crossover their location is reversed. The photo is both in the manual and in the Amazon product page shows the 1.5 Ohm in the R2 position and the 6.8 in R1. Sadly I am not knowledgeable enough to analyze the circuit.

It would be odd for HiVi to photograph an incorrectly assembled crossover. So, go with the photo right?
You might be able to ask on amazon or on swans or hivi's website... I don't know enough about it myself to give an answer.
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post #32 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ggroch View Post
I just ran into my first anomaly with the DIY2.2 instructions. In the parts list the 1.5 Ohm resistor is listed as R1 and the 6.8 Ohm as R2.

However, in the photos of the finished crossover their location is reversed. The photo is both in the manual and in the Amazon product page shows the 1.5 Ohm in the R2 position and the 6.8 in R1. Sadly I am not knowledgeable enough to analyze the circuit.

It would be odd for HiVi to photograph an incorrectly assembled crossover. So, go with the photo right?
I am not knowledgeable about crossovers either, but if there are general patterns, for what it's worth, the "outside" resistor is the higher resistance on the Volt10-LX crossover I assembled. This means the R1 would have the higher ohms. Again, this doesn't mean that all resistors should be in this pattern.

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post #33 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 05:53 PM
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The naming convention for the resistors on the volt PCB have no relation to that used in these Hi-Vi speaker kits.
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post #34 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 06:19 PM
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A few of the guys on the PE forums are saying the woofers on these measure poorly. They do not matchup to the posted specs on PE website. I really hope we didn't get duped with poor quality drivers. I bought 2 sets.
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post #35 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 07:12 PM
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I sent my question about the DIY 2.2 resistor configuration to HiVi through Amazon messaging (I could not find a support contact on the HiVi.US website). They got back to me right away saying that indeed the photo of the crossover on Amazon is correct. The 6.8 Ohm is for the tweeter filter, the 1.5 Ohm for the woofer. They pointed me to This diagram on the HiVi DIY 2.2 description:

http://hivi.us/UploadFiles/main/Imag...0227181808.jpg

They promised to contact a tech tomorrow and get back to me if their advice was wrong...but it makes sense. Follow the photo. I am happy with how quickly they responded and the knowledge of the responder.
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post #36 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rusty Shackleford View Post
A few of the guys on the PE forums are saying the woofers on these measure poorly. They do not matchup to the posted specs on PE website. I really hope we didn't get duped with poor quality drivers. I bought 2 sets.
Which "these" do you mean, the 2.2 or the 3.1?

AFAIK these are the same quality Hi-Vi drivers that i've seen everywhere, and I don't think i've ever heard anything about about any Hi-Vi product. Which specific woofers were the refering to? The B6 or L6? And were they referring to this kit specifically or the woofers bought from PE? Reviews I've seen on speakers from which these kits are based have all been pretty positive, and that's when comparing the versions of these that cost over $1000 for the 2.2SE and over $2000 for the M3 (the 3.1 DIY all assembled in a prettier box).

Hi-Vi is selling these same kits on their website for $450 and $545 dollars...
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post #37 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Shackleford View Post
A few of the guys on the PE forums are saying the woofers on these measure poorly. They do not matchup to the posted specs on PE website. I really hope we didn't get duped with poor quality drivers. I bought 2 sets.
Yeh, i read that ... and think that the assumption is that the driver in the kit is identical to the one being sold on PE. What if this is a different iteration, maybe updated, or maybe a special run just for the kits? I've pinged HiVi via reddit, and the representative there has promised to get back to me soon on that. He thought this was the updated version and PE was selling the older version.
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post #38 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by VegetarianEater View Post
Which "these" do you mean, the 2.2 or the 3.1?

AFAIK these are the same quality Hi-Vi drivers that i've seen everywhere, and I don't think i've ever heard anything about about any Hi-Vi product. Which specific woofers were the refering to? The B6 or L6? And were they referring to this kit specifically or the woofers bought from PE? Reviews I've seen on speakers from which these kits are based have all been pretty positive, and that's when comparing the versions of these that cost over $1000 for the 2.2SE and over $2000 for the M3 (the 3.1 DIY all assembled in a prettier box).

Hi-Vi is selling these same kits on their website for $450 and $545 dollars...
The guys who measured the woofers on PE had bought the 2.2. They were measuring the D6.8IIB. PE sells woofers that are marked D6.8B ... so the question becomes, are these two identical or are they different.
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post #39 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cacophonix View Post
The guys who measured the woofers on PE had bought the 2.2. They were measuring the D6.8IIB. PE sells woofers that are marked D6.8B ... so the question becomes, are these two identical or are they different.
Can you link me to the page you found that? the only one i'm seeing is a cached page on google that is mentioning this topic haha
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post #40 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by VegetarianEater View Post
Can you link me to the page you found that? the only one i'm seeing is a cached page on google that is mentioning this topic haha
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...appeared/page2
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post #41 of 68 Old 09-13-2017, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I'm seeing now where the guy measured horrendous specs on the woofer. I really hope we didn't all get hosed here, i'd feel really bad for steering people towards this, but also that i bought 1 of each of the kits. We still don't know anything about how they sound, just that some guy measured a woofer and the finding weren't great. Could have been a dud.

If anything, I guess worst case scenario i replace the woofers on both. It is very confusing though, these seem to be the same kit that is over $400 or $500 on HiVi's website, and the Amazon MSRP is showing the same... I guess we'll find out soon whether or not an amazing deal turned out to be too good to be true
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggroch View Post
I sent my question about the DIY 2.2 resistor configuration to HiVi through Amazon messaging (I could not find a support contact on the HiVi.US website). They got back to me right away saying that indeed the photo of the crossover on Amazon is correct. The 6.8 Ohm is for the tweeter filter, the 1.5 Ohm for the woofer. They pointed me to This diagram on the HiVi DIY 2.2 description:

http://hivi.us/UploadFiles/main/Imag...0227181808.jpg

They promised to contact a tech tomorrow and get back to me if their advice was wrong...but it makes sense. Follow the photo. I am happy with how quickly they responded and the knowledge of the responder.
So they agree the photos are correct and the instructions are wrong? It is 1.5 Ohm in the R2 position and the 6.8 in R1? My set is due here tomorrow.

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post #43 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 04:41 AM
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So they agree the photos are correct and the instructions are wrong? It is 1.5 Ohm in the R2 position and the 6.8 in R1? My set is due here tomorrow.
Yes, the photos are correct.

After thinking about it, the crossover is very simple, coil, cap and resistor for the woofer, and same for the tweeter. If you believe in the benefits of bi-wiring it would be quite simple to glue the components to a board compatible with the four rear terminals.
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post #44 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 06:50 AM
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Well, my home survived relatively unscathed, but I'm still without power so I haven't had the chance to dig in to this yet.

Regarding the measured specs on the woofer from PE - what is it that is disappointing? Is it the relatively high Fs?
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post #45 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 07:22 AM
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Glad to hear your home & stuff is OK TuteTibiImperes. Camping out for a bit I guess. I see there are mildew prevention stickers on the cabinets...but I do not imagine they are effective through flooding

I have been involved in selling audio most of my life, and did not understand the woofer measurements at all. It is interesting that apparently more than one owner measured the same not great results.

HOWEVER, I am not going to be the least concerned until all is hooked up and auditioned. We were certainly not "duped".


If you have seen the care taken in the packaging and labeling of the DIY 2.2 you can tell there was time and a good bit of money spent on doing things right. The cabinets are well constructed, carefully finished, well braced, and quite heavy. You can almost always judge a speaker's construction quality by banging on the cabinet, these sound like tree trunks. The most expensive part of a good speaker is generally the cabinet.

The 2 drivers also look to be extremely well built, very heavy, nicely finished, the woofer has a cast basket.

So while a manufacturing defect is certainly possible, it makes absolutely no economic sense for HiVi to spend all of that money creating and shipping 60 pounds of kit from China and then substituting expensively built but crap drivers on purpose.

I have seen a lot of crap "dupe the public" white van speakers. They all feature thin cabinets, pressed baskets that ring like a bell, and crossovers that consist of maybe a cap so the tweeter does not explode. Oh, and usually white woofer cones and silvery trim rings. But I digress.

I am betting the 2.2s sound excellent. I have a pair of similarly sized Jamo C-93s here to compare them to and am looking forward to the shoot out.
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post #46 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 09:10 AM
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Well, the first brief review of the 3 way is on PE, and it is supposed to sound excellent. I still think that this is an excellent kit, and while maybe the drivers used are a bit different from what is being sold on PE, that by itself is not a disqualifier. As long as the end result is great, i don't see any reason for complaint. Unless of course, the idea behind buying the kit was to sell the drivers on ebay, and use just the flat pack for some other design.
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post #47 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 08:37 PM
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If the below is correct then I was duped for sure...I did not intend to buy 60w max speakers that reach down to only 65hz. I'm guessing (and hoping) this is just another "lost in translation" situation. The sensitivity is too high as well.



This shows a different model number than the drivers PE sells.



They do come with some cool speaker grill stickers though.


I should be listening to them tomorrow.

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File Type: jpg Swan logo grill stickers.jpg (323.5 KB, 218 views)
File Type: jpg boxes nearly done.jpg (744.5 KB, 217 views)
File Type: jpg crossovers.jpg (444.8 KB, 221 views)

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post #48 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaleNixon View Post
If the below is correct then I was duped for sure...I did not intend to buy 60w max speakers that reach down to only 65hz. I'm guessing (and hoping) this is just another "lost in translation" situation. The sensitivity is too high as well.

Spoiler!
The theory from the PE guy who measured the driver was that that designation was to signify that the driver was from a kit so people couldn't resell it... or it could be a bad version of that driver.

One thing I just noticed on HiVi's website is that the 2.2 DIY kit is listed as 2.2, whereas the one on Amazon is listed as 2.2A... and the image you posted shows specs of 65hz on the low end... whereas the specs on the website show 43hz... I'll be disappointed if the version that comes with the kit is inferior... On the other hand the 3.1 kit still seems legit based on the one guy who actually assembled it. I'm interested in actually hearing from someone how the 2.2 kit sounds, and how low it goes (if it only gets bass to the 60s or if it's good down to the low 40s like it should).

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post #49 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by VegetarianEater View Post
I'm interested in actually hearing from someone how the 2.2 kit sounds, and how low it goes (if it only gets bass to the 60s or if it's good down to the low 40s like it should).
I'll post tomorrow on the sound. It will be pretty obvious to tell the low end just by ear.

I really think the specs sticker was a mistake. Both versions of the drivers are stamped Pmax 120w so with the same tweeter power handling should be similar. Probably what is true about both is they are 60w rms and 120w max.
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post #50 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 10:47 PM
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Overall the quality and completeness of the kit is very good...not equal to diysg but more than you'd expect from a kit sold through Amazon. The wood was cut very precise. I'm not gonna bother with the black vinyl covering may do a wood veneer later.

The instructions were missing details and needed to be run by an English speaking person one more time before printing. E.G. They want us to "weld" speaker wire to the crossover. Seems like a good deal for less than $300 and a real steal for $125.

...So long as it sounds good tomorrow.
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post #51 of 68 Old 09-14-2017, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Overall the quality and completeness of the kit is very good...not equal to diysg but more than you'd expect from a kit sold through Amazon. The wood was cut very precise. I'm not gonna bother with the black vinyl covering may do a wood veneer later.

The instructions were missing details and needed to be run by an English speaking person one more time before printing. E.G. They want us to "weld" speaker wire to the crossover. Seems like a good deal for less than $300 and a real steal for $125.

...So long as it sounds good tomorrow.
I eagerly wait your opinion! I'm in Florida as well so my shipment got delayed in Illinois last week and finally made it to Florida today, but i probably wont get it until Saturday or Monday... and then i have to wait for my soldering iron and wood glue to come in as well.

Anyone have any soldering tips? I've never soldered anything before, but it looks fairly simple for something like this!
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post #52 of 68 Old 09-15-2017, 08:40 AM
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I eagerly wait your opinion! I'm in Florida as well so my shipment got delayed in Illinois last week and finally made it to Florida today, but i probably wont get it until Saturday or Monday... and then i have to wait for my soldering iron and wood glue to come in as well.

Anyone have any soldering tips? I've never soldered anything before, but it looks fairly simple for something like this!
Soldering is almost trivial here. With PCB, its literally a 10 min job. For both of them
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post #53 of 68 Old 09-15-2017, 09:08 AM
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So i heard back from HiVi about D6.8IIB, and they said that this driver was specially made for the DIY kit, and is based off of the old driver. So I'd not worry about the deviation, as it is a new driver. Just need to see if they sound good in this kit.
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post #54 of 68 Old 09-15-2017, 12:51 PM
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Swans DIY 2.2A review

Quickly to the point - there is nothing wrong with the woofer in this kit even though it's rebadged "II". And I was not duped at all...I have no idea why this set sold initially at $125 on Amazon. If it falls to that price again, I may buy a second set even though I'd have no use for them...it's that good of a deal.



For reference the main speakers in my upstairs "mini" theater are Klipsch RF-82II's (dual 8 towers). There are also RF-82II's as L and R in my main theater downstairs, too. I'm also coming from Dayton B652-AIR 6.5" bookshelves that the Swans will be replacing. The Swans DIY 2.2A have similar bass response as the Klipsch towers so being those towers reach down to 33hz it is very believable the Swans reach their claimed 43hz, not the 65hz, the sticker mistakenly states. The Dayton AIR's had nearly non-existent bass as they reached only to 70hz. Bass-wise the Swans sound nothing like the AIR's without a subwoofer.



I do believe the sensitivity is in the mid 80db's as I had to turn up my modest Sony AVR around 8 numbers (24 to 32) to get it to the level the Klipsch towers were playing at before I switched them over. I did turn the AVR up above normal listening levels momentarily and there was no distortion or eminent feeling the speakers were at there breaking point. I am happy about this because coming from Klipsch and a few DIYSG speakers with upper 90's sensitivities I thought 80's sensitivity could be an issue on lesser and mid-range amps.



I am leaving the subs off for now and listening in stereo mode. I never claim to be an audiophile, but to me the sound is smooth, full, detailed, and quite adequate in the bass department. (In my opinion every speaker really needs a sub.) I think I now for the first time understand when others complain of Klipsch "harshness". That never has bothered me and still won't because I really only use Klipsch for movies. But for music I definitely prefer the Swans at this point. There is not much sound difference quality-wise to the Klipsch towers. In loudness the towers will, well, tower over the Swans of course.



For certain I'm eventually going to do a wood veneer on these. The Swans DIY 2.2A's are keepers for sure.
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post #55 of 68 Old 09-15-2017, 02:35 PM
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Nice job on the 1st review of the DIY 2.2As, mine will be operational tomorrow.

Whether by accident or on purpose it looks like you positioned them just about perfectly in your room. Both of the reviews of the Swans 2.1 SE say that they sound best well out from the wall, 3 feet or more, and on stands, definitely not on a shelf.

See: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0708/swans_d21se.htm

And: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/sw...-speakers.html (I can now do links!)

The reviewers said that in their rooms moving them closer to the wall produced far too much bass.


The reviewers also said the 2.1s were very scalable, that is, while they sound good with a standard receiver like your Sony, they really shine with higher end amplification. So, before I fire mine up I am getting my power amp out of storage. Thanks for the review and the notes on your assembly.

*1 Note of mine on assembly as a newbie: After nearly dropping one of them off a table, I strongly recommend taping a temporary guard over the tweeter dome while you are soldering it (or welding it as the instructions say). Its round and rolls away easily. You could tape it upside down into the styrofoam packing it comes in.
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post #56 of 68 Old 09-15-2017, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggroch View Post
Nice job on the 1st review of the DIY 2.2As, mine will be operational tomorrow.

Whether by accident or on purpose it looks like you positioned them just about perfectly in your room. Both of the reviews of the Swans 2.1 SE say that they sound best well out from the wall, 3 feet or more, and on stands, definitely not on a shelf.

See: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0708/swans_d21se.htm

And: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/sw...-speakers.html (I can now do links!)

The reviewers said that in their rooms moving them closer to the wall produced far too much bass.
Yes, I had read a review (not either of the ones you linked) saying they sounded much better away from the wall. I really had no choice anyway in this room as this is just temporary placement because eventually they are going in a bedroom..though I'm starting to consider buying a 2nd set or the 3-way set and selling those big Klipsch's.

Sony's calibration sets the Swans to "large" and level at 0db while the klipsch RC-62II is set to -10db (the max.). Quite a difference btw. high and low sensitivity.

Additional Assembly notes:
1. There is not much instruction on how to apply the vinyl covering so you better have the skill already. I'll be getting professional help with wood veneer (my Dad).
2. The metal "retainers" (C) are meant to be hammered into the inside of the bottom panel and accepts the "holding pegs" (F) for the crossover board. It was vague in the instructions. You'd probably figure this one out yourself.
3. It doesn't specify how the acoustic stuffing should be attached, just "press it hard against the side panels". There is one piece per cabinet. I just left it in one piece, folded it over once and, in a U-shape, put it into the woofer hole so lower side and back walls are covered and there is no stuffing blocking the upper space giving the woofer room to breathe up to the port hole.
4. It recommends gluing the port in, but I didn't, for one because I haven't finished it yet, but even after finishing it I may not glue it since it fits very tight.
5. They do not supply zip ties for holding the heavier/larger red wound inductors to the crossover board so you need to buy some if you don't have them.
6. Wow, these speakers are making Duran Duran (1981) sound great....
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post #57 of 68 Old 09-16-2017, 06:57 PM
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Vinyl veneer and grill fabric glue choice

Hey, has anyone decided to use the black vinyl included? I ask because I just ordered a 2nd set of 2.2A's. I may just paint them or I may put on the black vinyl, but I don't know what the best way to do it. What kind of glue? Cut it how, with a razor blade? Cut it when, before or after applying?

Also just use wood glue for the fabric onto the grill frame?

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File Type: jpg black vinyl.jpg (507.8 KB, 149 views)

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Denon AVR-X4200W
7.4.2 Klipsch / Titan-615LX / Behringer / Volt-10LX Atmos build
NU3000DSP iNUKE / 2 SI HT18 D4's
NU6000DSP iNUKE / 2 Ultimax 18"s
BenQ W1070 / 10' AT screen

Last edited by DaleNixon; 09-16-2017 at 07:04 PM. Reason: added photo
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post #58 of 68 Old 09-17-2017, 06:32 AM
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My 2.2As are operational (though unfinished ugly) and I did some listening last night. I am very impressed, they are without a doubt the best small stand speakers I have heard for less than $400 (and perhaps higher than that).

A very balanced, musical sound with gorgeous detailed mid-range, the vocal region that is most important to me. Bass is deep, tight, excellent. The highs a detailed and smooth, but just a bit prominent in my hard surfaced room. I cut the treble on my amp 1 to 2 DB on some music, its fine on others. I started listening using a not-audiophile SMSL AD18 digital amp which has biting high's and too little bass, the sound with the DIY 2.2A was not good. Then hooked up my Pioneer SX-A6 MKii stereo receiver and things improved a lot. The high end glare was gone and the bass filled out. I have them placed about 18" from the wall on stands and that works very well in my room. Finally, I retrieved my vintage NAD 2600A power amp and B&K preamp from storage and it all improved another level. Low sensitivity speakers like these often really bloom when connected to high powered amps that can really control them without strain.

I have owned a lot of small high quality monitors over the years and these rank very highly against them. I have recently been using Jamo C93s, and the DIY 2.2A's outclass them in nearly all respects in my setup.

So, pleased, with lots more listening to do.

Final Finish:

I think I will try the vinyl wrap because it is a skill I have not yet practiced. I will have to do a good bit more google research before offering advice. I am considering whether I should round the cabinet edges just a bit but not sure whether that will help or hurt vinyl adhesion.

I have applied grill cloth before and it should not be difficult. Contact cement, either spray or brush applied sounds like the popular choice. However, the key is not to apply glue of any kind to the visible front face. Just glue the back where any mistakes will not be visible. Most grill frames do not have the grooves in back that these have, it is possible you would not need glue at all (or could use slow acting glue like wood glue) with those grooves holding things.
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post #59 of 68 Old 09-17-2017, 08:15 AM
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REW measurements

FWIW here is a REW measurement after applying Sony's "Engineer" calibration (stereo mode/subs off). I did this mainly to measure bass response. The room is not treated...carpet and drywall only. Furniture, computer are in the space and the speakers are far from ideally positioned. Mic is 8 ft from both speakers which are toed into towards mic.



And just for reference I measured my RF-82II's and made an overlay with the Swans (no Sony calibration on either) for two reasons. One, compare bass response, and two, show that what appears to be a poor Swans graph happens to both sets of speakers due to less than ideal measuring conditions.

Klipsch is RED. Swans is GREEN.

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File Type: jpg klipsch swans overlay-small.jpg (116.9 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg both swans engineer cal up-small.jpg (119.0 KB, 10 views)

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Denon AVR-X4200W
7.4.2 Klipsch / Titan-615LX / Behringer / Volt-10LX Atmos build
NU3000DSP iNUKE / 2 SI HT18 D4's
NU6000DSP iNUKE / 2 Ultimax 18"s
BenQ W1070 / 10' AT screen
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post #60 of 68 Old 09-17-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleNixon View Post
Hey, has anyone decided to use the black vinyl included? I ask because I just ordered a 2nd set of 2.2A's. I may just paint them or I may put on the black vinyl, but I don't know what the best way to do it. What kind of glue? Cut it how, with a razor blade? Cut it when, before or after applying?

Also just use wood glue for the fabric onto the grill frame?
I intend to follow this guide, assuming the vinyl that comes with the kit is similar.
https://www.parts-express.com/resour...l-how-to-guide
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