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post #1 of 15 Old 09-08-2017, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Build Recommendation

I am at the point where I would like to upgrade my speaker setup, but there are so many build options I don't know where to start. I will be using YAMAHA TSR-5810 with 80W per channel and my room is about 12' x 18'. Aesthetics are not a concern as part of my upgrade path is an acoustically transparent screen. I would like to spend between $100-$200 a speaker starting with probably the center channel and then a bit more on the sub when I get to that one. I am by no means a master woodworker, but I have built my share of projects including furniture before. My biggest concern is audio quality, I am not looking for something to blow the doors off my house...yet. So, any recommendations?
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post #2 of 15 Old 09-08-2017, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxm83 View Post
I am at the point where I would like to upgrade my speaker setup, but there are so many build options I don't know where to start. I will be using YAMAHA TSR-5810 with 80W per channel and my room is about 12' x 18'. Aesthetics are not a concern as part of my upgrade path is an acoustically transparent screen. I would like to spend between $100-$200 a speaker starting with probably the center channel and then a bit more on the sub when I get to that one. I am by no means a master woodworker, but I have built my share of projects including furniture before. My biggest concern is audio quality, I am not looking for something to blow the doors off my house...yet. So, any recommendations?
For most Cinema style speakers you will be looking at a little more than $100-200 a speaker. However, if you want to get started, you should check out the fusion line from DIY Sound Group. They are great speakers for the price and The Fusion 6 and if you can squeeze a little more in the budget, the Fusion 8 towers would be right around your price range.

However, if you really want something that will give you nice midbass, you may want to save a little more and try for the Fusion 15's. They are highly regarded on here, especially for the price. And with an acoustically transparent screen, you have the perfect setup for them. However, they definitely stretch your budget. But you can always start with 1 and build more as you have money. Start with 1 as your center, when you get another, make them your fronts and then finally build one more for your center. Just an idea. I completely understand staying within your budget as well.
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post #3 of 15 Old 09-08-2017, 10:21 AM
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^ +1

for the 15's . .

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #4 of 15 Old 09-08-2017, 11:29 AM
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How about the Cohesive 893's? Cheaper than the 15's and still as good (I believe).....

My Setup | FS: Nothing right now

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post #5 of 15 Old 09-08-2017, 11:34 AM
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^++1

Everything Al Toid said except I started with a pair of Fusion 8's (instead of 6's) just to get my feet wet with DIYSG. LOVED THEM, but as you'll soon find out hanging around the DIY forum will quickly have you wanting to 'upgrade' to the next best beast in the lineup. So the F8's are now my side surrounds, and the 1299's are my LCR.

I've heard great things about the Fusion 15's. With regard to bang for buck, it's hard to go wrong with DIYSG.

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post #6 of 15 Old 09-08-2017, 12:00 PM
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Volts (6, 8, 10) are a good option in your price range.
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post #7 of 15 Old 09-12-2017, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Toid View Post
For most Cinema style speakers you will be looking at a little more than $100-200 a speaker. However, if you want to get started, you should check out the fusion line from DIY Sound Group. They are great speakers for the price and The Fusion 6 and if you can squeeze a little more in the budget, the Fusion 8 towers would be right around your price range.

However, if you really want something that will give you nice midbass, you may want to save a little more and try for the Fusion 15's. They are highly regarded on here, especially for the price. And with an acoustically transparent screen, you have the perfect setup for them. However, they definitely stretch your budget. But you can always start with 1 and build more as you have money. Start with 1 as your center, when you get another, make them your fronts and then finally build one more for your center. Just an idea. I completely understand staying within your budget as well.
Saving up for those 15s sounds like a great idea. My only issue is space. I will have ~12" of depth to work from and that box is almost 15" deep. Can I custom fabricate an enclosure that is 12" deep and keep the sound signature if I keep the internal volume the same?
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post #8 of 15 Old 09-12-2017, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxm83 View Post
Saving up for those 15s sounds like a great idea. My only issue is space. I will have ~12" of depth to work from and that box is almost 15" deep. Can I custom fabricate an enclosure that is 12" deep and keep the sound signature if I keep the internal volume the same?
Sounds like the HTM 12 could be perfect for you. Plus if I remember correctly, in the HTM discussion thread, @EricH said that in a baffle wall setup, they should give just about equal or better mid-bass than the fusion 15s. Add that to the fact that they are only 9.75" deep and they sound just about perfect for your situation. Or you could always just build a tall fusion 15 that isn't as deep, but I'm not sure about the depth of the compression driver and horn, which could limit depth.
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post #9 of 15 Old 09-12-2017, 11:16 AM
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The xo for the HTM12 is a bit higher than for the 15 .
i don't know how that translates because the CD's are different as per design but
but
you get (want!) that huge 15" horn ,
which for my experience is simply awesome for the power handling , clarity, soundstage depth and detail

with BM, in stereo, the HTM12's should be quite impressive

and a l-o-n-g term fix for up-grade-itis

plan on the matching LCR set

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #10 of 15 Old 09-12-2017, 01:40 PM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
The xo for the HTM12 is a bit higher than for the 15 .
i don't know how that translates because the CD's are different as per design but
but
you get (want!) that huge 15" horn ,
which for my experience is simply awesome for the power handling , clarity, soundstage depth and detail

with BM, in stereo, the HTM12's should be quite impressive

and a l-o-n-g term fix for up-grade-itis

plan on the matching LCR set

Both of 'em have the SEOS15 horn. The HTM does use the slightly smaller DNA-325 CD though, as opposed to the DNA-360 for the F15's. I'm still not 100%, but unless the SEOS15 horn and CD on the F15 is deeper than 12" it shouldn't be a problem to just build them taller but shallower. I'm not sure how making them wider would affect Baffle Step correction stuff, since I don't really hear about it with speakers with the bigger mid-range drivers, but just adding to the height shouldn't be an issue.
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post #11 of 15 Old 09-12-2017, 03:19 PM
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yeah, that depth factor . . .

IF ! you mod the cab, it can be done by making a shallower cab ,obviously
BUT
you might be able to add that volume back by making the cab trapezoidal - wider in back that tapers to a front that lets you use the "as designed" baffle and keeps the same internal volume

that's what I did for my F4's when they were surrounds as the room is only 14.5 wide - but then I added the short throw full motion mounts for "directivity" wrt MLP.
no actual net gain in overall reduced projection . .

the dihedral ends there are not part of the volume restoration, just the long low triangular sides. internal volume preserved .

it's a minor geometric / volumetric calc

when on the wall, XT32 set the xo to 40.

how much do you need to reduce the depth?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F4Q4 ready to play.jpg (486.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg F4Q4has landed.jpg (776.0 KB, 9 views)

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #12 of 15 Old 09-12-2017, 03:27 PM
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p.s. you got me thinking . .

this spring I did 2 88 specials for surrounds ,

well the 88 is only 9"deep and the horn and cd fit very nicely, thank you

so modding a F15 box to 12" deep and going for the trapizoidal mod,
totally feasible and no horn& CD impingement

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #13 of 15 Old 09-12-2017, 03:59 PM
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some quick math . . first quick iteration . .

the back would need to be 23.5 wide, depth reduced to 12"

3 x 16.0 (internal width) x 27.5 (internal height = 1320 cu. vol. reduced by reducing depth 3"

think of a box 3 x 16.5 x 27.5 . long and narrow split in 2, creating the volume to be restored . . then split it diagonally lenghtwise

that makes the back an extra 6 inches wider and tapers to the front using the baffle.

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html

Last edited by asarose247; 09-12-2017 at 04:15 PM.
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post #14 of 15 Old 09-13-2017, 11:57 AM
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because the 12" deep sides will need a slight angle to join nicely with the back ,

an angle calculator gives a very low angle of 5+ degrees,

in my many horn builds, this is also a common range of angle for the joints of internal angles, i.e. where panels meet
trying to precisely cut that angle can be done. .

it easier to cut a slight bevel on one edge and belt sand it "close"

be sure you're hitting the mark

you're gluing this box together with PL3X, right? gaps will be sealed

then finesse the other edge also with a belt sander
so initially that 12" deep side might be cut to about 12.5 - since with the angles its a long thin parallelogram

that small angle doesn't add much length
but that what belt sander finesse is all about

and even the front edge where the baffle fits, need only be very close
fabrication of stiffeners for the front baffle or a double baffle can also be easily managed if you allow some wiggle room for the PL3X to do its thing

in my F15's the xo went directly under the woofer, no electronic interference per Erich

I used about 2 rolls of the denim from HD per cab, use a stapler, much quicker cleaner
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WOOFER ROOMF0791.jpg (240.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Woofer XO spacing.jpg (333.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg StuffingF0790.jpg (386.2 KB, 5 views)

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #15 of 15 Old 09-15-2017, 02:05 AM
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Technically your AV receiver will never output 80 watts per channel. It's only rated for 80 watts for two channels. At best will be 40 watts per channel when all channels are driven. This type of an AV receiver is designed to work with bookshelf sized speakers and leave the powered subwoofer to do the bass frequencies.

If you are planning to setup a 7 channel sound system, I think it's best to work on the subwoofer then work backward. Using seven Fusion 8 with a sensitivity of 98 dB at one watt can easily make finding a subwoofer a nightmare. A subwoofer has to be 11 dB louder than all speakers in a 7 channel setup.

I suggest the following for the subwoofer

[Subwoofer 1]
Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4
10 cu. ft
Tuned at ~20 Hz
HPF = 22 Hz; 2nd-order Butterworth
Max Delay 55 ms at 20 Hz
Max Power = 530
Estimate Peak power = 1875 watts

About 115 db SPL
F3 = 20 Hz
F6 = 19 Hz
F9 = 17 Hz

[Subwoofer 2]
Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4
4 cu. ft.
Tuned at ~23 Hz
HPF = 19 Hz; 2nd-order Butterworth
Max Delay 51 ms at 9 Hz
Max Power = 700 watts
Estimate Peak power = 2500 watts

About 117 db SPL
F3 = 31 Hz
F6 = 24 Hz
F9 = 20 Hz

Remember these are simulations that based in an anchor chamber room which mean a room size of infinity. You should expect a 3 dB or maybe a 6 dB of loudness in your room. What speakers you should get is probably the Fusion 6 if you like a lot of bass. If you don't like a lot of bass, you can go with Fusion 8. When using speakers like the Fusion 8, the AV receiver will use its digital volume to decrease the loudness of the channels to better integrate the subwoofer. The digital volume increases noise as the volume is lowered.
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