Low frequencies...damaging to ears? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 29 Old 09-17-2017, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Low frequencies...damaging to ears?

This might be a little out of place, but I figure the folks who are building multiple 18"+ subwoofers powered by thousands of watts would be the most qualified to answer this.

As I give in to my upgraditis, I often wonder, how much is too much, and will I be damaging my ears, leading to hearing loss and possibly tinnitus in the future.

I am using a 10" sub with 300W RMS but will be upgrading to a 12" and 500W. I know this is a laughable setup to everyone in this forum, but I would love to get your input on this, and if there's any science to back it, that would be great too.

All I know is that there have been many times that I felt discomfort or even pain if my speakers are too loud, however, I never have had that experience with my sub. I only turn it down if my wife yells at me to () or if I feel like I'm running the sub too hot. I find LF in movies and bass guitar to be soothing and I've never felt ear pain from it. Sometimes I can actually feel a bit nauseous if I overdo it or test with sine waves, but usually I'm fine. Sometimes my ear that I damaged scuba diving feels a bit funky as well.

Anyways, love to hear your thoughts and experiences.
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post #2 of 29 Old 09-17-2017, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
This might be a little out of place, but I figure the folks who are building multiple 18"+ subwoofers powered by thousands of watts would be the most qualified to answer this.

As I give in to my upgraditis, I often wonder, how much is too much, and will I be damaging my ears, leading to hearing loss and possibly tinnitus in the future.

I am using a 10" sub with 300W RMS but will be upgrading to a 12" and 500W. I know this is a laughable setup to everyone in this forum, but I would love to get your input on this, and if there's any science to back it, that would be great too.

All I know is that there have been many times that I felt discomfort or even pain if my speakers are too loud, however, I never have had that experience with my sub. I only turn it down if my wife yells at me to () or if I feel like I'm running the sub too hot. I find LF in movies and bass guitar to be soothing and I've never felt ear pain from it. Sometimes I can actually feel a bit nauseous if I overdo it or test with sine waves, but usually I'm fine. Sometimes my ear that I damaged scuba diving feels a bit funky as well.

Anyways, love to hear your thoughts and experiences.
All frequencies can cause damage at high enough levels, including bass frequencies. If you are experiencing discomfort and pain you are listening TOO LOUDLY. That will cause permanent hearing loss or damage if you do it for too long. Be careful with your hearing, especially if you are young and still have it all intact. Certain damage is again, PERMANENT. Don't assume because the lower frequencies are not causing discomfort that they are not causing damage. Not saying they are, but you must be careful.

I've already got tinnitus, and it is NOT fun. Granted, it's not bad when listening to actual sound and reasonable levels, but in quieter to silent environments, I find it very distracting. You know that saying, "I can't hear myself think!" - well, I blame the tinnitus.
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post #3 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 05:34 AM
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I run 4 sub woofers, and some are 1000 Watt plus, with 18" woofers in them. I like it when I can feel the windows and other things shake in the house when there are big explosions like in Transformer movies. I don't even have to have it real loud as it just works well. I use a Pioneer Elite LX501 Receiver for the other channels and normally don't power my 7 Klispch speakers up past -16 on the Receiver. I am 74 years old and have had tinnitus since I was about 18 years old. I imagine the loud music and much use with earphones was my worst enemy back then. Most the time I don't even notice it anymore or pay attention to it. So sure it can hurt you, but especially if you can feel the ear pain (very rarely did I ever feel that except mainly at an Outlaws concert back in the 80's while in the 4th row). For my music system I use 2 Crown 500 watt amps and 2 JBL 100 Speakers and 2 Altec Speakers with 15" woofers in them. I tend to play my music loud when I play my drums along with it, or my guitars, and sometimes I get a little hearing loss after or stuffy ness (about a half hour of too loud with the music), but it comes back to normal in about 10 minutes. The ringing is always there even when I shut it all off. With movies I never have any pain and very rarely any abnormal ringing. Yet I have hearing tests yearly and have no noticeable hearing loss. I guess it can depend on the person.
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post #4 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
All frequencies can cause damage at high enough levels, including bass frequencies. If you are experiencing discomfort and pain you are listening TOO LOUDLY. That will cause permanent hearing loss or damage if you do it for too long. Be careful with your hearing, especially if you are young and still have it all intact. Certain damage is again, PERMANENT. Don't assume because the lower frequencies are not causing discomfort that they are not causing damage. Not saying they are, but you must be careful.

I've already got tinnitus, and it is NOT fun. Granted, it's not bad when listening to actual sound and reasonable levels, but in quieter to silent environments, I find it very distracting. You know that saying, "I can't hear myself think!" - well, I blame the tinnitus.
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I run 4 sub woofers, and some are 1000 Watt plus, with 18" woofers in them. I like it when I can feel the windows and other things shake in the house when there are big explosions like in Transformer movies. I don't even have to have it real loud as it just works well. I use a Pioneer Elite LX501 Receiver for the other channels and normally don't power my 7 Klispch speakers up past -16 on the Receiver. I am 74 years old and have had tinnitus since I was about 18 years old. I imagine the loud music and much use with earphones was my worst enemy back then. Most the time I don't even notice it anymore or pay attention to it. So sure it can hurt you, but especially if you can feel the ear pain (very rarely did I ever feel that except mainly at an Outlaws concert back in the 80's while in the 4th row). For my music system I use 2 Crown 500 watt amps and 2 JBL 100 Speakers and 2 Altec Speakers with 15" woofers in them. I tend to play my music loud when I play my drums along with it, or my guitars, and sometimes I get a little hearing loss after or stuffy ness (about a half hour of too loud with the music), but it comes back to normal in about 10 minutes. The ringing is always there even when I shut it all off. With movies I never have any pain and very rarely any abnormal ringing. Yet I have hearing tests yearly and have no noticeable hearing loss. I guess it can depend on the person.

For sure, if it hurts I will turn it down. But that rarely if ever happens. I am only playing through a Yamaha soundbar right now and a 10" 300W sub. I am upgrading the sub a little but nothing crazy. Staying at 12", a bit more wattage.

I just find it interesting that I never really feel any discomfort from bass, but I will often turn my soundbar down. I don't know exactly what levels I am listening at, but I don't think they're outrageous by any means.

One of the reasons I ask is because I was watching some of "How to Train your Dragon" with my 2 year old son. He loves the movie, and I don't think the volume is loud at all, but with the sub you can kinda feel the air pressure change when the dragon is flapping its wings, for example. I dont ever want to harm my son, so I will turn the sub off just to be safe, but thats kinda why I started thinking of this too.

FYI the soundbar I use is Yamaha YAS 105, which is 30W and 30W for L and R channels and 60W for the "subwoofer" (3" drivers in the soundbar)

I actually also have tinnitus, from my ear not equalizing during scuba diving and me pushing it way too much.

Interesting enough, I have neck issues as well, and when I stretch my neck and it is loose, the tinnitus goes away, almost completely. You guys should look into that.


One more thing to add...I don't think my ears ever ring after going to the movies or watching a movie at home. But they sure as hell do if I go to a club, concert or wedding. I would imagine most damage I've done to my ears has been from being at bars and clubs in my university days.
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post #5 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 07:10 PM
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What did you just say?
You guys really need to text LOUDER... I can't hear a thing. LOL!

There are 2 main forms of noticeable hearing damage:
1) Threshold shifts (i.e. quiet things that can no longer be heard.)
2) Ringing/Squealing (this can also cause quiet things to not be heard, and other higher frequencies.)
3) and Chronic earpain in extreme cases.

Like radiation, the damage is accumulative. (It only ever gets worse with more exposure.)
Depends on exposure-time and the magnitude of the exposure. (The louder, the worse. The more often, the worse.)

Shockwaves are a common cause of immediate, and often permanent hearing loss.
Things like: guns, sonic booms, dynamite, diving rapidly to the bottom of a pool or ocean floor.
These types of events rip the eardrum. Ultimately this causes discomfort or for it to rip open at quieter and quieter levels.

The more damaged your ear is, the more painful sounds become at lower levels. (Generally: Old people hate loudness, because it Hz.)
That's another sign you've damaged your ears, the sensation of pain. (or... that you are about to, that is!)

Power tools, lawn mowing, factory equipment, and large engines ALL cause damage if you are around them for 8 hours every day until retirement; at no point is being exposed to it making your ears "better" or tougher... (Tougher, to hear things maybe. LOL!)

If you job is a miner, and your hobby is death metal and power tools. Your ears are toast!

Just because you can now hear again after that rock concert, doesn't mean your ears weren't damaged. Just wait a few decades.

High frequencies are more damaging than lower frequencies because of how our ears are physically constructed.

The perception of loudness is a whole nother ball of wax.
For the most part: Distorted sound, sounds MUCH louder than undistorted sound.
Annoying sounds, are MUCH louder than pleasant/welcoming sounds.

Alarm clocks are the number 1 cause of heart failures. (Sound can and does kill.)

Your kids phone/tablet isn't loud, it's just distorted and annoying. It's maybe hitting 80-90db tops.
It's not ACTUALLY loud. But it is 500% distortion (and is annoying 5-second repetitive mind-dulling garbage.)
Turn that "loud stuff" down.
In fact, turn that "loud stuff" OFF... or go to your ROOM.
(or BOTH! )

1-20hz is so difficult to make loud that there is pretty much no chance of you going deaf by it.
60-300hz might only take 120-130db to cause rapid damage.
30hz, maybe upwards of 160db... YMMV

High SPL is risky...
But no risk, no reward. (YOLO! )
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post #6 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
For the most part: Distorted sound, sounds MUCH louder than undistorted sound.
I didn't know how real this issue was until I got 4 ported TC Sounds 18" LMS subs. They are so low in distortion that I didn't realize how loud it was until I couldn't talk to the person sitting right next to me. No matter how loud I spoke I couldn't be heard.

I have had this set up going on 2 years. I have no desire to 'upgrade'. I rarely ever see clip lights. I don't need more.
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post #7 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 07:35 PM
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Hearing loss is a complicated subject. From my own personal experiences, some people that have never experienced work related high sound pressure levels are experiencing poor hearing, and they have never gone to loud concerts or many movies.

Read the post by tomservo ( Tom Danley ) in the link:

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=hug&m=178121

Slamming a car door doesn't sound loud, but can be very intense for a brief instant, short enough that a typical spl meter will not register.

How the ear / brain interprets sound is different from what we measure with a simple 'sound pressure level' meter. For instance a smoke detector that produces about 90 db is absolutely painful to listen to, yet music at 90 db, on a high fidelity system with adequate headroom is not painful to listen to.

Bandwidth plays a part in this, a telephone can get pretty loud, but has limited bandwidth, and can be perceived to be 'too loud'. Similarly, most HTIB / Sound Bar / small systems can seem loud, but when measured on a sound pressure level meter, the spl is not high enough to be damaging, yet the resultant sound can be 'irritating'.

Small ( in terms of radiation area ) sources have higher level of IMD distortion compared to larger sources, for an equivalent spl.

Lack of amplifier headroom, speaker thermal compression, motor eddy currents, and other suspension induced distortions are cumulative.

If you are worried that the volume levels are too high, a sound pressure level meter can help you determine how loud you are listening, but beware, most all meters do not accurately capture the 'peak' as compared to the levels that tomservo observed in every day encounters.

Some of the things that can be very damaging to your hearing is the use of firearms without protection, grinders, hammering, etc.

This is a quick link I pulled up: http://www.m1911.org/loudness.htm

I can't verify the accuracy of the table, but I suspect those levels reported for firearms are *much* lower than the absolute peak levels if you were to measure the voltage of the mic as tomservo did in the link at the top.

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post #8 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
I didn't know how real this issue was until I got 4 ported TC Sounds 18" LMS subs. They are so low in distortion that I didn't realize how loud it was until I couldn't talk to the person sitting right next to me. No matter how loud I spoke I couldn't be heard.

I have had this set up going on 2 years. I have no desire to 'upgrade'. I rarely ever see clip lights. I don't need more.
I have experienced this same phenomenon.

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post #9 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 07:43 PM
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I imagine the measurements in the table are for sounds made outdoors. I'm a retired police officer. Firing a 9mm outdoors was nothing to the one shot I took through a windshield from inside the car. My ears were ringing for weeks.
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post #10 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 07:49 PM
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I just pulled up an asbstract of a paper by 5 Finnish authors on the levels of gunfire impulse noise at the shooter's ears ( using tiny microphones ) through ear plugs and muffs. I haven't read the full paper, but I will link the abstract:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7761796

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post #11 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 08:03 PM
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http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/...hurt-your-ears

This article might be interesting. It basically talks about the past view that low frequency sounds (below 250hz in that article) are innocuous but there is now evidence that isn't true.

When I was competing in competition car audio there was a common view that the low frequencies in SPL competitions wouldn't cause much if any hearing damage but there high SPL levels of the SQ cars would (I competed in both). I even asked a doctor about this and was told that this was true, that LF don't damage your hearing.

From what I've since read, it seems that the true answer is we aren't really sure. It's been a lot harder to study. If you think about how you isolate he source of damage in a study, how many people are only exposed to low frequencies? The majority of people who suffer hearing damage suffered a notch in the speech range caused by loud sounds in that same range. High frequency roll off is also common as people age and could be age related or due to exposure. There is also some uncertainty in that area.

As for Low frequencies, what you are talking about (10" vs 12" sub) isn't enough to likely cause damage. I've heard from some audiology researchers I've talked with that the threshold for damage may be on par with the level where you would have pressure damage. That would be in excess of 180db and loud enough that nobody on this forum is likely achieving.

I can say this. I've had my ears checked every few years since I started completing in car audio competition in HS and participated in audiology studies in graduate school. My hearing is still Normal down to 20hz but rolls off quite a bit after 15khz. Normal tests don't extend that far so my hearing is still considered normal. However, for two years I completed in professional SPL competitions all over the country and routinely sat in cars that could exceed 150 decibles with no hearing protection. I've gone to concerts a few times a year every year since I was around ten. I'm 36 and my hearing is still ok for now. Having said all of that, my younger brother has developed tinnitus and it's caused both of us to be a bit more careful. I now wear special ear plugs when I go to concerts and often avoid listening to music too loud myseld.


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post #12 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 08:08 PM
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Here's another interesting article abstract on acoustic trauma. ( shooting )

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24749098

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post #13 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 08:19 PM
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I have worn earplugs daily for the last 20 years, and work in a fairly loud environment, have gone to about 25-30 concerts over the years ( worn earplugs for all but the first two ) and listened to loud music at times without protection. >120 db peak for short durations of a few minutes.

I have not had my hearing tested, but using REW's built in generator, I can hear 18.5Khz at ~ 4 meters from the source ( compression driver and horn ), hear 21.5Khz clearly on earbuds and about the same on over the ear headphones, without trouble at 'normal' amplitudes.

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post #14 of 29 Old 09-18-2017, 08:51 PM
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i am nothing close to an expert, but I have decent/good hearing for my age of 45. nothing but a few -5 and -10's on my last hearing test which I have been told is great or good.

I have always listened to loud music...many concerts where I was near deaf for a few hours after concert was over...930 club in dc was my worst enemy back in my teens along with cbgb in ny in college...

always had the boomin car stereo...152 db's on dash and yes I always listened loud.

joined army and served 20+ years...in the beginning earplugs werent required and the rifle ranges were the worst...the constant firing on both sides including your own was killer to me ears. being a paratrooper my entire career life in the c130 aircraft w/out hearing protection was also deafening, but after my 1st 5 or 6 years they started handing out earplugs. finally the combat areas...mortar and ied attacks can be heard from miles away...but when they within a click, you really hear and feel them...forever for some...

my point is I am lucky, only have permanent ear ringing...but like I said in beginning not really any loss...so answering your question I think better safe than sorry, but dont think its 100% law of science if its this loud you go deaf...did they wear earplugs in vietnam? do they wear earplugs now in combat? but maybe you wear earplugs at the movie theater? a basketball game? I guess if thats how you roll...not everyone lives the same...

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post #15 of 29 Old 09-19-2017, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Great input everyone, but as I suspected, no consensus haha. Other than, if you listen loud, you run a risk.

I never used to be concerned about this, because if it was too loud, I would know and turn it down. My main concern is now that I am into a realm of LF that very few "normal" people are, there's no common knowledge regarding if it's as damaging or not.

Again, only using a 12" sub with 500W, but that's still more than 99% of the population is using. So naturally I can't rely on "normal" people to answer this question.

For now, I'll turn the sub off with my boy. Maybe when gets a bit older I'll feel more comfortable having it on with him.
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post #16 of 29 Old 09-19-2017, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, any recommendations for an affordable mic to measure SPL and FR?

Do they come with computer programs?
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post #17 of 29 Old 09-19-2017, 04:59 PM
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REW or Room EQ Wizard is free. It's the software many use for measurement.

Dayton UMM6 is $75 and is a USB mic. It's cheap and works well. The iMM6 is $14.50 and is a cheap basic mic for your phone. It can be used with a laptop and a long extension cord and is also fairly accurate. It's more than fine for basic low frequency measurements.


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post #18 of 29 Old 09-19-2017, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre55 View Post
Also, any recommendations for an affordable mic to measure SPL and FR?

Do they come with computer programs?
Calibrated Umik-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs ( $100 ) and REW from Home Theater Shack (free)

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post #19 of 29 Old 09-20-2017, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post
I can hear 18.5Khz at ~ 4 meters from the source ( compression driver and horn ), hear 21.5Khz clearly on earbuds and about the same on over the ear headphones, without trouble at 'normal' amplitudes.
Even when I was 12 I couldn't hear above 17.5khz
Now that could have been because I was already exposed to enough loudness that by that point some damage was already done, or perhaps there is a related DNA "luck of the draw" thing going on.

I don't even want to know what I can hear up-to now, but I am 100% sure that it ain't good...
I'd bet that MOST of that is probably caused by my HT, being exposed to 10,000's of hours above 100db, and 1000's of hours above 130db.
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post #20 of 29 Old 09-20-2017, 07:01 PM
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High sound levels (rock concert) and high impulse sound levels (gunshot) are not the only thing that can cause hearing loss and tinnitus. Ototoxic medicines, Aspirin, Naproxen, Ibuprofen, antibiotics, diuretics, chemotherapy drugs, all can cause hearing loss or tinnitus. Some effects are temporary others are permanent.

A high fever can cause permanent hearing loss. Even a common cold, sinus infection or allergies—with their blockage of nasal passages and eustaschian tubes—can cause hearing issues. Fortunately, hopefully, those go away once you get over the malady.

However, hearing loss caused by exposure to continuous high sound levels or high impulse sound levels are permanent and irreversible. The ringing, rushing, popping you constantly hear or the loss of sensitivity to certain frequencies are all signs of permanent hearing damage—which will get worse as you get older.

People might be impressed when you tell them your system can reach some ridiculous sound levels. What they won't be impressed by is having to repeat themselves when you can't hear what they are saying.
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post #21 of 29 Old 09-20-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
High sound levels (rock concert) and high impulse sound levels (gunshot) are not the only thing that can cause hearing loss and tinnitus. Ototoxic medicines, Aspirin, Naproxen, Ibuprofen, antibiotics, diuretics, chemotherapy drugs, all can cause hearing loss or tinnitus. Some effects are temporary others are permanent.

A high fever can cause permanent hearing loss. Even a common cold, sinus infection or allergies—with their blockage of nasal passages and eustaschian tubes—can cause hearing issues. Fortunately, hopefully, those go away once you get over the malady.

However, hearing loss caused by exposure to continuous high sound levels or high impulse sound levels are permanent and irreversible. The ringing, rushing, popping you constantly hear or the loss of sensitivity to certain frequencies are all signs of permanent hearing damage—which will get worse as you get older.

People might be impressed when you tell them your system can reach some ridiculous sound levels. What they won't be impressed by is having to repeat themselves when you can't hear what they are saying.
Always protect your ears if you know loud / high spl is coming... guns / grinders / music / whatever.
One of my best friends has been a half of a cotton ball in each ear. Cheap and easy and i find it cuts down on the highs / some mids enough for normal loudly amplified concerts (indoors are normally louder and sound worse from poor mix and reflections from over amplification.) to reduce most ringing and still allow enough to enjoy. Most is so over amplified indoors to sound like poo anyway. Outdoors is normally better unless inside volume is kept within decent limits (normally the bass could be cranked more....but will normally bounce and be dentrimental to original FOH mix...

I have played in poopy bands now for almost thirty years and most practices are in a 1000 s.f.ish Basement. Often after libations or other additional "volume" makes what is felt just more life fulfilling. Within 6' of the kick drum and 4' of bass cabinet is most enjoyable to "feel" the groove and music.

All is better with more loudeness and addition low frequency vibrations. Just wear ear protection cause a screaming guitar or a sharp snare can do damage along with a loud / screaming amplified human voice!

I'd say lower frequencies do less damage per db than mids and highs like the measured scientific curves say.... it's science or / "always use protection"?
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post #22 of 29 Old 09-20-2017, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Even when I was 12 I couldn't hear above 17.5khz
Now that could have been because I was already exposed to enough loudness that by that point some damage was already done, or perhaps there is a related DNA "luck of the draw" thing going on.

I don't even want to know what I can hear up-to now, but I am 100% sure that it ain't good...
I'd bet that MOST of that is probably caused by my HT, being exposed to 10,000's of hours above 100db, and 1000's of hours above 130db.
Over 35 years of audio, and I did my first measurement of Spl at my fairly normal listening level. I got readings around 115 db, to 120 tops, measuring from the listening position, with 18 subs running, and 4 pairs of mains, as well as my 4 pioneer pro bullets running. Exceeding 120db and it is no longer enjoyable for me to listen to it, in this room.

I noticed most run of the mill spl meters they sell for measuring noise , in the science of protecting hearing, usually only measure up to 130 db tops. I imagine there is a good reason for this..... Going that loud is damaging to the ear.

Personally I found that i can have a good two hour music session, and begin to experience some fatigue due to bass near the end of the session. No pain, just a feeling of............. I have had enough till my next session.

I have managed to give my ears a pressure sensation when going well over 120db, and i can feel the rush of bass , as the wave of air is forced past my body. In enclosed spaces like the back seat of a car.... I have had my ears popped with only a couple 15s in the trunk. This is where bass is more dangerous. In smaller listening areas, and probably a little safer in larger listening areas.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.
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post #23 of 29 Old 09-22-2017, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Great to hear everyone's thoughts and experiences.

I am looking forward to getting a mic and actually quantifying my listening levels.
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post #24 of 29 Old 09-23-2017, 12:17 PM
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The UMIK-1 is good for 130dbZ PEAK or roughly 120dbZ continous *if you mod the dip switches, as seen here:
Massively clipped UMIK-1

Since the UMIK-1 is dbZ, you'll know that the SPL will be more accurate than a handheld unit that only does dbC or dbA.

If you need something that can go louder than 130db, then you'll need a Term-Lab or SPL-Lab solid-state mic:
http://spllabusa.com/us/products/bas...ass-meter.html
https://shop.termpro.com/products/te...-sensor-system

I see that TermLab has reduced their price to $399. That's awesome... mine was like $800 with tax and it was the analog sensor version!
These things are built like tanks, so I really see no reason to upgrade until Windows is no longer compatible with the software anymore, in a few decades or whatever...
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post #25 of 29 Old 09-23-2017, 12:47 PM
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Here are a few examples to give you a "rough idea" of what it takes to make some SPL:
(and I know these numbers are accurate as my CM-140, TermLab and UMIK-1 all agree with each other...)

4 sealed LMS-18's at full excursion hits about 115dbZ @ ~2ft according to my TermLab:
^^^115dbZ@10Hz

The cones are not "standing still" in that video, that's for sure!
^^^103dbZ@10Hz according to box modelling software

I can hit north of 130dbZ peak with 13 out of 17 subs @ 2m:
To get the 1m score you'd have to add 6db I suppose...
>130db without the HzHorn

>130db with the HzHorn. Drops my power consumption in almost half, while maintaining the same SPL.

Now I just need a 2nd HzHorn for the right side, to balance out the bass in both corners (and to add more SPL of course! ) Also on the to-do list is to build a box for my 24 as well. I suppose I should get off my lazy butt and go do something...

Last edited by BassThatHz; 09-23-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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post #26 of 29 Old 09-23-2017, 01:05 PM
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What do YOU think "dBZ" means?????

Only reference I found was re Weather Radar Reflections:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBZ_(meteorology)

PS: I'm various familiar with various dB measurements.....I even know what dBrnC0 means......
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post #27 of 29 Old 09-23-2017, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
What do YOU think "dBZ" means?????

Only reference I found was re Weather Radar Reflections:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBZ_(meteorology)

PS: I'm various familiar with various dB measurements.....I even know what dBrnC0 means......
It's a frequency weighting, such as the more common A and C, except Z is completely flat and as such doesn't compensate for human hearing.

http://www.nti-audio.com/en/support/...surements.aspx
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post #28 of 29 Old 09-23-2017, 01:29 PM
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Also remember that hearing damage is cumulative and not all at once.

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post #29 of 29 Old 09-24-2017, 11:29 AM
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Low frequencies...damaging to ears?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
I imagine the measurements in the table are for sounds made outdoors. I'm a retired police officer. Firing a 9mm outdoors was nothing to the one shot I took through a windshield from inside the car. My ears were ringing for weeks.


This is why I use a .22 pistol for home protection. People scoff, but it’s just as deadly, holds more rounds, hella cheap to use at the range, and you won’t be blinded by the muzzle flash or deafened from the first shot. As a bonus, the round usually won’t exit the body, so less mess... Truly more tactical indoors than a .38 or .45... or my .454 Super Redhawk. Now that’s a beast of a revolver...

Now if only I could legally get a silencer for the .22 *pew *pew *pew

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