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post #1 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Help with subs

Hey guys, I need your help!
I am having a child beginning of March and need to finish my home theater soon. I know once the child comes, all my money will be going towards all those lovely extra expenses

Here is what I have:
Denon x1300w
Q Acoustics 2050i Floorstanding Speaker (pair)
Q Acoustics 3090c Center Channel Speaker

** Budget**

I would like to be around $800 for everything if its 2 subs.

I will be upgrading my rear surround soon as they are just crappy computer speakers, just waiting on a deal to come my way.

I have about 8800 ft^3 of space (the direct area of the speakers is 12 X 16 but it is all open concept)
I was recommended 2 Ultimax 18's, Inuke 6000 DSP amp a while ago but not sure if things changed. I can also wait till black friday for any deals but thats my dead line. Would like to get it done sooner though.

Teach me your ways of the bass, I had some friends over watching the dragon scenes of GoT... The 2050i towers were exceptional, the center was ok but I need some bass in my life.

I attached pictures of two possible sub locations... or both sub locations




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post #2 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 07:58 AM
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I'm guessing your budget has changed as well? You will not be able to buy and build 2 UM18's with an Inuke for $800 - that'll run you closer to $1,200. Are you trying to get midbass or low end extension?

For more of a midbass, you could check out 2 of the Dayton PA460's and an inuke 3000dsp, which should come under your budget. If you want more Low end, you would be looking at the Ultimax 15 with an inuke 3000dsp. However, even this combo would go over your budget (after build) unless you can get the parts on sale. The parts themselves would be $760, but after you add in MDf at $30 a sheetm paint, connections, etc, you are over your $800 budget.
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post #3 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Toid View Post
I'm guessing your budget has changed as well? You will not be able to buy and build 2 UM18's with an Inuke for $800 - that'll run you closer to $1,200. Are you trying to get midbass or low end extension?

For more of a midbass, you could check out 2 of the Dayton PA460's and an inuke 3000dsp, which should come under your budget. If you want more Low end, you would be looking at the Ultimax 15 with an inuke 3000dsp. However, even this combo would go over your budget (after build) unless you can get the parts on sale. The parts themselves would be $760, but after you add in MDf at $30 a sheetm paint, connections, etc, you are over your $800 budget.
Crap really? I can get cut my own mdf at home depot instead of buying flat packs. Looking for that low end bass, do you think if I wait around black Friday they will have better sales on any? I wish I just bought everything last year
I can go over budget if it will be worth it.
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post #4 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 08:10 AM
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Agreed. Dual UM18s and an inuke 6000dsp will put you over budget. If you can swing it budget wise, that is a highly recommended system.

For $800, you should probably look at the Dayton PA460s in the VBSS style ported enclosures (better midbass), or the Stereo Integrity HT18s in a "Marty" style ported enclosure (better low end). You could probably run either off an Inuke 3000dsp.
If you plan on adding more SI HT18s later, it may be worth spending a little more for the 6000dsp. I think you can run about 8 PA460s off an inuke 3000.

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post #5 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 08:26 AM
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Why not get the HT 18 V2's which are about $160 per, Inuke 6000dsp is $400 and I'm sure all the plywood isn't much so it puts you right around your budget.
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post #6 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconrl View Post
Agreed. Dual UM18s and an inuke 6000dsp will put you over budget. If you can swing it budget wise, that is a highly recommended system.

For $800, you should probably look at the Dayton PA460s in the VBSS style ported enclosures (better midbass), or the Stereo Integrity HT18s in a "Marty" style ported enclosure (better low end). You could probably run either off an Inuke 3000dsp.
If you plan on adding more SI HT18s later, it may be worth spending a little more for the 6000dsp. I think you can run about 8 PA460s off an inuke 3000.
I guess my question is, are the UM18's worth the wait and the price? I see they aren't available till 10-31 now.
They are twice the cost of the HT18's but after building these subs, I will most likely not upgrade for a very long time.

Also, I can get the 6000dsp for $375 shipped, is this about as low as they go? I may just spread out the order to absorb shock costs

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post #7 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyB210 View Post
I guess my question is, are the UM18's worth the wait and the price? I see they aren't available till 10-31 now.
They are twice the cost of the HT18's but after building these subs, I will most likely not upgrade for a very long time.

Also, I can get the 6000dsp for $375 shipped, is this about as low as they go? I may just spread out the order to absorb shock costs
Not sure we can tell you what is worth the wait or price. That's somewhat relative.
Take a look at this thread and it might help.
wait for UM-18 (2 months), or HT-18 or H0-18, something else?

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Originally Posted by NickyB210 View Post
I will most likely not upgrade for a very long time.
Good luck

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post #8 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 11:00 AM
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We're expecting our first late February and I just finished my full Marty last weekend. Speed it up or you'll lose the race to your wife's nesting instinct!

FWIW I used the SI HT-18 ($160) and don't think the UM-18 would have been worth about double the cost, for me. Nearly identical performance when modeled in WinISD if the models are to be believed.

Assuming you have minimum required tools (jigsaw, clamps, pencil, ruler), a bit over $800 will get you two full Marty's as follows:
-iNuke 3000DSP ($280), not leaving too much on table but the 6000DSP would be better for 2 and can be had for 10-15% lower than $399
-(2) drivers HT-18 V2 (2x$160=$320)
-(4) sheets MDF (4x$30=$120)
-(2) Neutrik chassis mounts ($5)
-(4) Neutrik speakON cable mounts ($12)
-(2) Glue ($10)
-50ft 12AWG cable ($25)
-(2) gallons black paint ($50)
$822

Only problem you'll have then is where to fit those boxes.
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post #9 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavakv View Post
We're expecting our first late February and I just finished my full Marty last weekend. Speed it up or you'll lose the race to your wife's nesting instinct!

FWIW I used the SI HT-18 ($160) and don't think the UM-18 would have been worth about double the cost, for me. Nearly identical performance when modeled in WinISD if the models are to be believed.

Assuming you have minimum required tools (jigsaw, clamps, pencil, ruler), a bit over $800 will get you two full Marty's as follows:
-iNuke 3000DSP ($280), not leaving too much on table but the 6000DSP would be better for 2 and can be had for 10-15% lower than $399
-(2) drivers HT-18 V2 (2x$160=$320)
-(4) sheets MDF (4x$30=$120)
-(2) Neutrik chassis mounts ($5)
-(4) Neutrik speakON cable mounts ($12)
-(2) Glue ($10)
-50ft 12AWG cable ($25)
-(2) gallons black paint ($50)
$822

Only problem you'll have then is where to fit those boxes.
Congrats!!!!


Would the 6000 be worth the additional $100?
I think I'll go HT-18's for cost savings, my room (exposed ceilings) stinks for acoustics as is so the extra $300 for the UM would really be lost (I think)
Do you think I will I will have enough mid range with my setup to be satisfied with all this low end?

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post #10 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NickyB210 View Post
Congrats!!!!

Would the 6000 be worth the additional $100?
I think I'll go HT-18's for cost savings, my room (exposed ceilings) stinks for acoustics as is so the extra $300 for the UM would really be lost (I think)
Do you think I will I will have enough mid range with my setup to be satisfied with all this low end?
Thanks and congratulations to you as well.

In my opinion (that's all it is) the 6000 is worth the extra money but it all depends on how hard you intend to push them and how much extra headroom you want for impressing people and shaking earwax loose. I doubt you would feel completely undergunned with the 3000 and two full Marty's but you do have a pretty large volume to pressurize. See the "official SI HT-18 V2 thread" for this discussion at length.

I don't think the UM-18 would offer a significant improvement in "quality" anyway, a bit more quantity but someone may chime in to argue that.

Define mid-range? Do you mean above or below crossover (i.e. from the Marty's or from the Denon/Q Acoustics)?

Might also consider putting one of the Marty's nearfield on its side just behind the couch to shake things up a bit.
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post #11 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyB210 View Post
I guess my question is, are the UM18's worth the wait and the price? I see they aren't available till 10-31 now.
They are twice the cost of the HT18's but after building these subs, I will most likely not upgrade for a very long time.

Also, I can get the 6000dsp for $375 shipped, is this about as low as they go? I may just spread out the order to absorb shock costs
First of all, whit size enclosure are you going to run? Are you going sealed or ported? That will make a little bit of a difference. With either of those subwoofers, you are looking at an 11 to 10 cubic foot box (per sub) in order to get the lowest ported tuning frequency. I have not simulated the SI, but their site states it can tune as low as 25hz in a 10 cubic foot box, where the UM18 will tune to 17hz in a 11 cubic foot box. So according to SI, the Ultimax gets a lower extension in a similar sized box. I am not sure of SPL until I complete a simulation. Although, if you search these forums, you will get a lot of opinions on these 2 subwoofers.
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First of all, whit size enclosure are you going to run? Are you going sealed or ported? That will make a little bit of a difference. With either of those subwoofers, you are looking at an 11 to 10 cubic foot box (per sub) in order to get the lowest ported tuning frequency. I have not simulated the SI, but their site states it can tune as low as 25hz in a 10 cubic foot box, where the UM18 will tune to 17hz in a 11 cubic foot box. So according to SI, the Ultimax gets a lower extension in a similar sized box. I am not sure of SPL until I complete a simulation. Although, if you search these forums, you will get a lot of opinions on these 2 subwoofers.
Looking at a mini marty or cube, Ideally I could do 1 of each but I'm not sure if that would fly? Im sure the wife will want the cubed marty in the sub 2 location in the pictures.

Before I buy these, are there any better prices? I thought I seen them for sale at $150. Also, how are these with music, I listen to rap/country and stuff like that.

I am content on pairing these up with the 6000, just need to figure out what size box.
http://stereointegrity.com/product/ht18-v2-subwoofer/
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post #13 of 27 Old 09-19-2017, 02:45 PM
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Thanks and congratulations to you as well.

In my opinion (that's all it is) the 6000 is worth the extra money but it all depends on how hard you intend to push them and how much extra headroom you want for impressing people and shaking earwax loose. I doubt you would feel completely undergunned with the 3000 and two full Marty's but you do have a pretty large volume to pressurize. See the "official SI HT-18 V2 thread" for this discussion at length.

I don't think the UM-18 would offer a significant improvement in "quality" anyway, a bit more quantity but someone may chime in to argue that.

Define mid-range? Do you mean above or below crossover (i.e. from the Marty's or from the Denon/Q Acoustics)?

Might also consider putting one of the Marty's nearfield on its side just behind the couch to shake things up a bit.
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Originally Posted by NickyB210 View Post
Looking at a mini marty or cube, Ideally I could do 1 of each but I'm not sure if that would fly? Im sure the wife will want the cubed marty in the sub 2 location in the pictures.

Before I buy these, are there any better prices? I thought I seen them for sale at $150. Also, how are these with music, I listen to rap/country and stuff like that.

I am content on pairing these up with the 6000, just need to figure out what size box.
http://stereointegrity.com/product/ht18-v2-subwoofer/
I might be missing something, but the site states the SI HT18 V2 is only 600 watts RMS and the inuke 3000 does 680 watts continuous (per channel) at 4 ohms. If that is the case, the 6000dsp shouldn't make any difference. The only difference would be future proof for different subs or headroom if decided for more subs. Unless I am missing something, there should be no difference in the 2 amps for 2 SI HT18v2 subwoofers. Am I missing something?

I thought you might be going with a smaller cube. Your best bet is to keep them tuned at the same frequency (ie use the build). You also could go sealed in a 4 cubic foot box. Before room gain and DSP, you lose about 10hz (F3). It might be worth it to keep it sealed if you are trying to keep the box size down. Then use the DSP to get your desired response. That is completely a personal preference though.
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I might be missing something, but the site states the SI HT18 V2 is only 600 watts RMS and the inuke 3000 does 680 watts continuous (per channel) at 4 ohms. If that is the case, the 6000dsp shouldn't make any difference. The only difference would be future proof for different subs or headroom if decided for more subs. Unless I am missing something, there should be no difference in the 2 amps for 2 SI HT18v2 subwoofers. Am I missing something?

I thought you might be going with a smaller cube. Your best bet is to keep them tuned at the same frequency (ie use the build). You also could go sealed in a 4 cubic foot box. Before room gain and DSP, you lose about 10hz (F3). It might be worth it to keep it sealed if you are trying to keep the box size down. Then use the DSP to get your desired response. That is completely a personal preference though.
I was reading this thread. They said the 3k will work but it will be at max power, with the 6000, it will have plenty of headroom and room for more if i ever wanted to go for it. I really don't know though, I couldn't get a concrete answer.
Stereo Integrity HT-18 v2 18" available again May-23-2017
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So after reading more, I think I will jus go with the i nuke 3K, the 6k is really for 4 of these subs and with my space, I wont be able to add any more than 2 subs so it would really just be a waste of money. Before I order, I'll give this 24 hours for anyone to change my mind lmao

My plan:
I nuke 3k dsp (will buy new fans, I hate fan noise)
2 SI HT-18
2 sealed marty cubes

Is there anything else I need other than wires? Also, I don't think i need to go crazy low, 20 is plenty.

Thoughts?
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Thanks Al, I posted in the HT-18 thread and they said 3k also. If there was any thought about adding more than to get the 6k but i dont think I will, I just simply dont have the space unless I start mounting things to the ceiling.... crap I shouldnt have said that
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There ya go. Turn your attic into an IB!

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bought two. Will wait on the amp till next month until I get these boxes made and painted.
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Will wait on the amp till next month until I get these boxes made and painted.
Let the fun and rumbling begin.

I noticed on this thread and the SI HT-18 thread you mentioned leaning towards "sealed Martycubes". The Marty line of boxes are slot ported which means a few extra cuts, some more joints to glue and more low frequency bang for your buck (to oversimplify). Why are you leaning towards sealed now?
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Besides the 2 Neutrik chassis mounts and 4 Neutrik speakON cable mounts, nothing else you need. You may want, some primer, paint, glue, etc. You can also get these sealed cabinets which are CNC machined specifically for the subs you have chosen.
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Let the fun and rumbling begin.

I noticed on this thread and the SI HT-18 thread you mentioned leaning towards "sealed Martycubes". The Marty line of boxes are slot ported which means a few extra cuts, some more joints to glue and more low frequency bang for your buck (to oversimplify). Why are you leaning towards sealed now?
No idea man, Im clueless

I'm looking at building my own marty cubes... but may just buy these http://www.diysoundgroup.com/si-4-sub-flat-pack.html
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No idea man, Im clueless

I'm looking at building my own marty cubes... but may just buy these http://www.diysoundgroup.com/si-4-sub-flat-pack.html
Those are sealed boxes. "Marty" was a user's name here that helped make a ported design popular. I believe it was actually an @LTD02 design.
This is a marty cube.


There's plenty of "marty" discussion here in the FAQ.
MartySub FAQ

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FWIW, I have two 10 ft³ sonosubs utilizing SI V1s tuned to 16.5 Hz in a 5600 ft³ room , and they play pretty flat to about 12 Hz at the listening position(s), though I still need to tweak the EQ some.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg sonosubs (2).jpg (138.0 KB, 105 views)

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post #24 of 27 Old 09-21-2017, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Before I order, figured I would check with you guys and make sure I have the right stuff

I have a denon x1300 with 2 sub outs, do I want 1 or 2 xlr to RCA cables?


1X Behringer NU6000DSP iNUKE 6000W Lightweight Power Amplifier with DSP

1X Carol 14 AWG 2C SJOOW Power Cable 50 ft.

4X Neutrik NL4FX Speakon SPX Series 4-Pole Cable Connector

2X Neutrik NL4MP-UC Speakon Connector 4 Pole Panel Mount

(2 pole connectors would save me 8-10 bucks, if I dont need them that is)

1/4" (16-14) Fully Insulated Female Disconnect 10 Pcs.
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... I have a denon x1300 with 2 sub outs, do I want 1 or 2 xlr to RCA cables?...

Get two of these https://www.markertek.com/product/sp...-to-rca-female


or, if you need cables, pick two of these in the length you need https://markertek.resultspage.com/se...P-P&sitepref=1

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post #26 of 27 Old 09-21-2017, 01:17 PM
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Does anyone know if Audyssey on the Denon x1300 independently adjusts the dual sub outputs?

If it does, you would probably want each output going to each channel on the inuke. If it doesn't seperately "correct" them, then you might as well bridge them (one cable from denon to inuke).

Edit: Looks like Audyssey XT only has single subwoofer correction. I'd go with a single cable from the receiver to the amp.

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post #27 of 27 Old 09-21-2017, 11:03 PM
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You'll wants 2 cables. You have the DSP function on the amp to independently DSP them. You also are placing them in different areas of the room, which means the level will need to be set independently.
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