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post #1 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Question DIY subwoofer advice (Novice inside)

Hey AVS!

Looking for some advice on my first build (and own) subwoofer.
Mostly looking for some build advice/design and a good driver.

I do have all the tools required for woodworking.
Mainly meant for movies, but I'd like an ok experience for music aswell, tho I guess any will do since I currently have none

Room specs etc:
4x4x3m (~13x13x10 ft)
48m3 (~1700 cu ft.)
Walls being bricks, concrete floor with laminate, wooden roof.
got a double bed covering a large portion of the floor area(1,8x2m), which will also be the main movie watching position.

Since I live in Denmark we have no real options of buying any proper drivers (except a really expensive danish brand) so this will have to be overseas hopefully inside EU to avoid taxes.
Been looking at Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax for driver and the 18" version, but they're out of stock till late november it seems.
Also been looking at the martyCube design, it seems so simple but there might be something "newer and better" out there.

For Amps, I've been looking at the Inuke3k (seems like alot of you guys use it) is anything else needed? it'll get a signal from a denon receiver which might change to a NAD at some point but that shouldnt do anything I guess.

Box max dimensions:
Around 60x60x60cm (~2'x2'x2' I ) little more doesnt matter, less is fine aswell, specially the width.

Hoping for some advice!
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post #2 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 09:18 AM
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Hi,

I had same problems here in Fin, i used container shipment logistic service, which delivered items from US to Fin, few 18" inch drivers shipment costs was about 30euros (its based on sq meters NOT weight) ..

Could this work in Denmark -> https://www.schumachercargo.com/dk/ you get (container) address (for free) in US and you can order items there and ship'em to DK
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post #3 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your comment!

Yeah we have something in DK aswell (ShopUSA) that does the shipping, taxes etc. (Remember DK has a stupid amount of vat+tax+importfee outside EU)
But by using those the price goes from $300 for something like the 15-22 to $540 with shipping, taxes and VAT, and that is assuming they can send a 15" woofer in a 16" box :/.

Seems like abit too much when I can get it from their reseller in NL for the price of the unit only (free int. shipping).

The only reason to buy something from USA was if there was something "better for the buck" ish.

Still looking for some design ideas and driver advice!
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post #4 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 12:04 PM
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What about the Pride Audio Junior-15?

Seems "some what" comparable to the UM-15.
http://eu.pridecaraudio.com/catalog/subwoofers/j15
http://eu.pridecaraudio.com/catalog/subwoofers

there is also Alphard Audio to check out:
http://alphard.audio/general/subwoofers

Both Russian, so at least it would be land-shipping (or at least, way closer than the opposite side of the planet...)

I'm sure there must be SOME sort of comparable subwoofer audio companies in EU-land.
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post #5 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi BassThatHZ!

As I stated in #3 I found a place in NL where I could buy the Dayton drivers (15" in stock, 18" out of stock) - which will probably be my option considering alot on here seems to like that the Daytons'.

Currently looking for a build design primarily, still considering one of those martyCubes tho?

(and ofcourse a driver is theres better bang for buck inside EU)

If I were to go with one of those martyCubes would a 18" be worth the wait? or how will a 15" do? (talking the Dayton 15-22 or 18-22)


Any help greatly appreciated
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post #6 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimception View Post
The only reason to buy something from USA was if there was something "better for the buck" ish.
http://stereointegrity.com/product/ht18-v2-subwoofer/

HT-18 v2 18″ Subwoofer $159.99

Those have been ordered several pcs (incl. myself) from US to Fin, total costs have been 350€ (inc. all) , i doubt that price doesnt get much higher when shipped to DK. I think you cant find anything better for that price. If you can, go for it. (15" inch aint better.., only abit smaller..) Theres about million build threads for that driver.
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post #7 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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is the SI-18v2 a better overall driver over the 18-22 or the 15-22?

It still seems to end up at just under $500 with shipping, taxes and vat + import fee, and that is without the correct dimensions of the box its shipped in+weight
Thats $200 more than the Dayton 15-22 (18-22 not being in stock)
Oh man Denmark and its taxes.
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post #8 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimception View Post
is the SI-18v2 a better overall driver over the 18-22 or the 15-22?

It still seems to end up at just under $500 with shipping, taxes and vat + import fee, and that is without the correct dimensions of the box its shipped in+weight
Thats $200 more than the Dayton 15-22 (18-22 not being in stock)
Oh man Denmark and its taxes.
Uh ok, its much more expensive than shipping to Fin.. that was suprise.. Then you should probably consider Daytons afterall.. I've had Alpine Type-R 15" -inch driver few years ago (in home use), it was also very good for the price.
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post #9 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimception View Post
is the SI-18v2 a better overall driver over the 18-22 or the 15-22?

It still seems to end up at just under $500 with shipping, taxes and vat + import fee, and that is without the correct dimensions of the box its shipped in+weight
Thats $200 more than the Dayton 15-22 (18-22 not being in stock)
Oh man Denmark and its taxes.
How much can you get the BMS 18N862 for? I would take that over a UM18. If it is even close in price I would go with the BMS. They are made in Germany so I thought it might be cheaper or available locally.

Look at databass for them if you want to compare it to the UM18 and other subwoofers.

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PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive, 2 Um-18 8cf sealed, Outlaw Ultra x 12, Kappa Pro 18LF, BFM Tuba 60 horn, B&C 18TBW100 6cf 41hz, 34hz, 28hz tune

iNuke 3000 & 6000 DSP's, Crowson Motion Actuator
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post #10 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 06:20 PM
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BEYMA 18LEX1600ND or 18PWB1000Fe look pretty good too if you can get them for a better price than the UM18 or UM15. The should have output down low comparable to the Um15 and kill either UMs from around 30-40hz up. Also, take less power being more efficient.

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post #11 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey bscool!

BMS 18N862 being around $1200.

BEYMA 18's seems to be around $750 compared to the Dayton UM18-22 18" Ultimax at $500.

Gonna take a look at that databass see if I can figure it out, Thought the Daytons was good woofers, but you're all recommending otherwise


**Edit got the price of the BMS wrong looks like I was looking at another cheaper driver from them with a similar name :/

Last edited by fimception; 09-24-2017 at 05:56 AM.
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post #12 of 25 Old 09-23-2017, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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So talked to the shipping company from US.

So the Dayton UM 18-22 sits at $500 shipped, Dayton UM 15-22 at $350 shipped (From NL)
The SI-18v2 sits at ~$550 shipped (US)

If I were to go with the Martycube design (or any other) How would the Dayton UM 15-22 do compared to the Dayton UM 18-22 and the SI-18v2? how much is lost going from a 18" to a 15"?
Is this what you guys use WINisd for?

Considering the small room would it be worth paying more for the 18"?


Also is there no edit button? :/

Thanks guys!
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post #13 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimception View Post
So talked to the shipping company from US.

So the Dayton UM 18-22 sits at $500 shipped, Dayton UM 15-22 at $350 shipped (From NL)
The SI-18v2 sits at ~$550 shipped (US)

If I were to go with the Martycube design (or any other) How would the Dayton UM 15-22 do compared to the Dayton UM 18-22 and the SI-18v2? how much is lost going from a 18" to a 15"?
Is this what you guys use WINisd for?

Considering the small room would it be worth paying more for the 18"?


Also is there no edit button? :/

Thanks guys!

If the price is that close, get the BMS 18N862, it has triple shorting rings, is much more sensitive.

If you are buying the iNuke 3000, be aware there are two versions, the DSP is a nice feature, the software is easy to use and intuitive. I would recommend the 3000DSP amplifier.

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post #14 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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If the price is that close, get the BMS 18N862, it has triple shorting rings, is much more sensitive.

If you are buying the iNuke 3000, be aware there are two versions, the DSP is a nice feature, the software is easy to use and intuitive. I would recommend the 3000DSP amplifier.
Yeah just double checked, its 1200$ for the BMS 18N862 - looks like I was too tired to look for drivers yesterday dammit!

Price seems to go higher and higher tho - looking at around 350$ what is the best bang for buck, problem being it kind of "have" to be inside EU since the US shipping is so high.
is the Dayton UM 15-22 really my only "proper" option?
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post #15 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimception View Post
Yeah just double checked, its 1200$ for the BMS 18N862 - looks like I was too tired to look for drivers yesterday dammit!

Price seems to go higher and higher tho - looking at around 350$ what is the best bang for buck, problem being it kind of "have" to be inside EU since the US shipping is so high.
is the Dayton UM 15-22 really my only "proper" option?
Hmm, I haven't done much surfing, but it appears Amazon has a site in Germany at least, and they have some car-fi drivers on there... this JBL GT3-12 is only $ 79Euros. I haven't done any modeling on it, but perhaps if you can use 4 of these, you can get better results than one larger subwoofer. Spreading them out can give you better smoothing, so 2 cabinets with dual 12's. { opposed if you like for nil driver reaction and rocking force cancelling )

https://www.amazon.de/JBL-GT3-12-Sub...=jbl+subwoofer

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post #16 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah we do have car-fi - I would like to stick with one "larger" sub I doubt I need much more in my current home

If I decide to go with the Dayton UM 15-22 and a Inuke3000DSP - what kind of box design would be better? ported or sealed?
Again the martycube seems so easy, but not many recent builds with it - from what I see so wondering if there is something better?

Really looking for something that can compete or be better than the svs PB2000 (borrowed one of these from a friend and really liked it)

Thanks for all your help so far!
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post #17 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 08:31 AM
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I'm certainly no expert.Most people here know more.....But...

With brick walls and concrete floors,I would get as big a woofer as possible. Two or sixteen would be better!

Many people here like the Ultimaxes.

Have you read the Marty thread?

Lots of great information on drivers others have used.
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post #18 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm certainly no expert.Most people here know more.....But...

With brick walls and concrete floors,I would get as big a woofer as possible. Two or sixteen would be better!

Many people here like the Ultimaxes.

Have you read the Marty thread?

Lots of great information on drivers others have used.
Is that a good thing? I'd prefer it to one, since its also my main room, I do need my other stuff in here aswell!
I have been reading the Marty thread, I see alot of people picking the 18-22 ultimaxes and the SI-HT18's for the martyCube which fits my size dimensions, but noone seems to pick the 15-22 ultimax so I'm not sure if I should wait for the UM18-22 to be back in stock by late november or bite the tax and pay the extra $50 for the SI-HT18.
OR go with the 15-22 and see what it brings..
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post #19 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimception View Post
Hey bscool!

BMS 18N862 being around $1200.

BEYMA 18's seems to be around $750 compared to the Dayton UM18-22 18" Ultimax at $500.

Gonna take a look at that databass see if I can figure it out, Thought the Daytons was good woofers, but you're all recommending otherwise


**Edit got the price of the BMS wrong looks like I was looking at another cheaper driver from them with a similar name :/
Where are you getting prices from for the BMS and Beyma? Not from a US site?

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post #20 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 03:59 PM
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Two months is not a long time to wait for the right driver. In the meantime you could build the box and take your time finishing the outside appearance the way you want it. Get your amp, run your wires. When the driver comes you literally just have to connect a couple wires and screw in the driver . Why settle?

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post #21 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimception View Post
Is that a good thing? I'd prefer it to one, since its also my main room, I do need my other stuff in here aswell!
I have been reading the Marty thread, I see alot of people picking the 18-22 ultimaxes and the SI-HT18's for the martyCube which fits my size dimensions, but noone seems to pick the 15-22 ultimax so I'm not sure if I should wait for the UM18-22 to be back in stock by late november or bite the tax and pay the extra $50 for the SI-HT18.
OR go with the 15-22 and see what it brings..
With concrete floors, the sound is more deadened (not as much room gain)than if floors were raised off the ground, and made of wood.

The walls being brick may be a good thing. I would get an 18" woofer if your able(especially if only using one)If possible two.Would be more even bass.

I understand space is limited so the biggest, baddest sub would be best, if you can only do one.
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post #22 of 25 Old 09-24-2017, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Where are you getting prices from for the BMS and Beyma? Not from a US site?
From one of their resellers, have checked both ebay and amazon aswell, along with a quick google for some more resellers, bascially around the same price everywhere outside US yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krholmberg View Post
Two months is not a long time to wait for the right driver. In the meantime you could build the box and take your time finishing the outside appearance the way you want it. Get your amp, run your wires. When the driver comes you literally just have to connect a couple wires and screw in the driver . Why settle?

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You're probably right, I'll wait the two months it takes, seems like you're all preferring those 18's

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg35 View Post
With concrete floors, the sound is more deadened (not as much room gain)than if floors were raised off the ground, and made of wood.

The walls being brick may be a good thing. I would get an 18" woofer if your able(especially if only using one)If possible two.Would be more even bass.

I understand space is limited so the biggest, baddest sub would be best, if you can only do one.
Guess I'll see if I can get room for one of those minimartys or something similar, doubt I can go that high tho :/
already decided I'll wait for the 18's in stock!

Thanks guys!
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post #23 of 25 Old 09-25-2017, 07:23 AM
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You could try a Martycube.That may be enough.If not, if you can find room, build the Marty.

You would only be out the cost of wood ,glue,fasteners,time,etc.
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post #24 of 25 Old 09-26-2017, 12:55 PM
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Being from Denmark myself I went through those exact same thoughts a couple of months ago.

You can follow my progrees here: New Micromarty build

In any case I settled for a 15", coming from no subwoofer and having a wife to deal kinda stopped the 18" ideas for me.

I purchased the Dayton from Soundimports in the Netherlands and my Inuke from Musicstore..
All in all my build costs about 800$
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post #25 of 25 Old 09-26-2017, 06:42 PM
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The UM-18 is quite a bit better than the UM-15, I'd say it's worth the difference in price if you have the space for it.

Of course the HST-18 is even better, but for roughly the same money you can buy an FTW-21, which is even better.

I forget the math but an 18 is about 1.5x better than a 15, and a 21 is about 3x better than a 15. A 24 is about 1.5-2x better than an 18 and 3-4x better than a 15.
Something like that anyway...

Subwoofers are highly room and room-placement sensitive. In a bad room, typically 2-4 subwoofers will be significantly smoother sounding than a single sub. However... if the multiples are of a smaller and cheaper sub then it won't be as loud or as distortion-free. There is no free lunch.

As for box types.
Horned is the loudest and most efficient, about 6db better than ported, but they are difficult to design and woodwork.
Ported is about 8db louder than sealed near the tuning frequency, above that it is no louder than sealed, and below that (single digits) sealed is typically louder.

Sealed is the smallest but least efficient, but doesn't require a HPF like the other two designs, nor does it experience a phase shift in that region. It just uses up lots of excursion and gets hot more quickly (and requires a beefier amp.)
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