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post #271 of 1130 Old 03-26-2007, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

so Vitod, what are you gonna do with your lates "addition"

I currently have two of these subs on the front corners and was thinking of adding the AV15 on the middle front.....or rear? It models very well with a flatter response than the Rlp 15. Maybe I should build a Sherv clone?

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post #272 of 1130 Old 03-26-2007, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitod View Post

I currently have two of these subs on the front corners and was thinking of adding the AV15 on the middle front.....or rear? It models very well with a flatter response than the Rlp 15. Maybe I should build a Sherv clone?

the other guy who did it is VERY happy with it too:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9056099

he used a TC2K to do it, and changed the port length and box volumes very slightly but very close nonetheless
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post #273 of 1130 Old 03-26-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

the other guy who did it is VERY happy with it too:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9056099

he used a TC2K to do it, and changed the port length and box volumes very slightly but very close nonetheless

Very, very nice! I have to wait a little till I'm ready to build though.

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post #274 of 1130 Old 03-26-2007, 03:12 PM
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Thanks vitod, i think im gonna go through with it
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post #275 of 1130 Old 03-27-2007, 04:02 PM
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once again, you set the benchmark in craftmanship amongst us DIYers....you are THE MAN!! great job shinobi
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post #276 of 1130 Old 03-27-2007, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobiwan View Post

I bet these not so small speakers still look inadequate against one of the towers.

perhaps, but slapping some endcaps on a sonotube is kindergarden, compared to the beauty of your work I'm afraid ..........at the end of the day, if they have the finish and attention to detail you gave your previous creation, these "Tantrism" speakers will be one for many many to clone!

I truly wished you lived in the US, preferably south Florida....I would be Camping at your doorstep pretty much!

ps- what's the status of the XO's?
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post #277 of 1130 Old 03-28-2007, 12:24 AM
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those are some beautiful speakers shinobiwan!!!
im new to this forum and it looks like im going to be camping out here for awhile.
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post #278 of 1130 Old 03-28-2007, 09:04 AM
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Any description won't be enough to justify your work! I'm speechless. Your talent is simply gorgeous! I have nothing else to say.

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post #279 of 1130 Old 03-28-2007, 09:55 AM
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Shinobi,
Those are amazing speakers, I was away for awhile and I lost track of the subwoofer you were building, I was searching around to see if I could find how it turned out when I found these, my jaw hit the floor, simply awsome!. Any chance you took any construction pictures, I would love to see them. NOW lets see if I can find that sub

Ed
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post #280 of 1130 Old 03-28-2007, 01:16 PM
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Man, those babies are awesome! Wow, nice pics too.

I didn't realize there was that much wood there!

How much do those monsters weigh!?!?

Nice job! I hope they sound as good as they look.

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post #281 of 1130 Old 03-28-2007, 06:06 PM
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Wow, I wanted to see how you did the front baffles and it looks like it was a lot of work!

BTW, what are the foam peices on the top bottom and front of the ribbon tweeter for? Does it help with dispersion or something?

Scott
 

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post #282 of 1130 Old 03-28-2007, 08:12 PM
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Just BEAUTIFUL craftsmanship Shinobiwan. I must say these are like a work of art...
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post #283 of 1130 Old 03-29-2007, 08:08 PM
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Shinobi,
I looked through your photo link at all your build pics and I must say you have remarkable craftsmanship, I am very interested in your design, and would like to ask the brand of the drivers you are using ,I can barely make out the name in the photo you provided, I would also like to know about the crossover you plan to use, what is the power handling capability of your design and any other info you would like to provide. It looks like your are constructing these in a back room of your house and still getting these results, I would say a man of your talent should be operating in a fully setup shop, and doing this for a living. Have you considered making and selling complete plans for your designs, I would love to try to build a pair of these speakers. Please keep us posted and plenty of pictures for your project.

Regards Ed
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post #284 of 1130 Old 03-29-2007, 08:33 PM
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I'm astounded. That's truely amazing craftsmanship. You get a tip of the hat
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post #285 of 1130 Old 03-30-2007, 07:50 AM
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Shinobi:
Incredible work. I have seen your previous designs and these look like the end all to be all! Great job. I also know what your finishing capabilities are so I am looking forward to the finished product!

BTW, I see a dog and a teddy bear in the photos. Does that mean there is a wife or girlfriend around that puts up with you doing this in the house? Or was there just not enough room for her anymore?

Chuck
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post #286 of 1130 Old 03-30-2007, 10:45 AM
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Hey, Chuck, check your PM box


Hey Shinobiwan, is there any links to build threads?
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post #287 of 1130 Old 03-30-2007, 01:03 PM
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Shinobiwan's main's are an absolute work of art. That is the most amazing DIY system I've ever seen. Great job!

I posted this over at Home Theater Shack so instead of rewriting it...

"Just wanted to post a solution to "build a sub to end all" that my friend and I did. We were wanting to prove not only that more bass is better, but WAY more BETTER bass is flat out awesome. And we did. Most people that are not HT nuts like us think we ARE nuts and that it is complete overkill...until they listen. Every single person that has heard this system is awe struck and usually makes the comment, "I have never heard anything that good in my life!". We had a space/dimensional issue that we wanted to "fill up" aesthetically all the while designing a powerful and dynamic system. When we looked at all the available subs, we ended up using the Dayton Quatro 15" for a couple reasons. 1-It is very inexpensive, especially when you buy 16 at one time! 2-We were designing a two box system with 8 subs in each cabinet which allowed us to address room mode issues by the sheer nature of the placement of 16 subs (see pics). 3-We had a massive amount of output, Xmax and displacement available without spending a rediculous amount of money on expensive subs and amps.

All told, this system came to a whopping $2,000. Including $450 in 1" MDF (8 sheets) and the CNC routering fee. The boxes were designed in BassBox Pro. 20cu/ft. cabinets with 2 seperate chambers at 10 cu/ft. per 4 subs. 2-6" port tubes for each chamber at 30". One on top and one on bottom tuned to 20hz. Each cabinet weighs around 250lbs w/o the subs. 2 Legion Sound Pro amps rated to 2700 watts bridged 4 ohms. Then we tuned it with a Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124P, REW and a RS Digital Meter.

The results are trully astonishing. 128db @ 25hz (we haven't even turned them up yet). NO ROOM NODES!!! and a perfectly flat house curve all the way up to the PSB Silvers output at 110db. Needless to say the dynamics and output are phenomenal but more importantly, they are very musical and subtle. If you didn't see them, you would know they were their until something big under 80hz happens. Then it's more of a dramatic exclamation point to the scene or music passage than an overbearing, booming bass note.

Hope you guys (and gals?) enjoy seeing our project. We are having a blast with DIY projects like this and hope this one inspires some of you to "go bigger"!

BTW - We built the center channel also with 4 Tag Bands and a Dayton Titanium Dome Tweeter. "

LL
LL
LL
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post #288 of 1130 Old 03-30-2007, 02:30 PM
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Shinobiwan, Jaw-dropping awesome looking speakers!

ib4best, nice bass arrays there.
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post #289 of 1130 Old 03-30-2007, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ib4est View Post

Shinobiwan's main's are an absolute work of art. That is the most amazing DIY system I've ever seen. Great job!

I posted this over at Home Theater Shack so instead of rewriting it...

"Just wanted to post a solution to "build a sub to end all" that my friend and I did. We were wanting to prove not only that more bass is better, but WAY more BETTER bass is flat out awesome......................"

Holy **** I thought I had a big bass array!
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post #290 of 1130 Old 03-31-2007, 05:55 AM
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Those Bass arays are MONSTROUS to say the least man!!!! WOW absolutley amazing. I could just imagine how you scar the neighbous with that.
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post #291 of 1130 Old 03-31-2007, 08:00 AM
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That is some impressive woofage!

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post #292 of 1130 Old 04-04-2007, 09:28 PM
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Shinobiwan,

True masteriece in the works,impressed beyond words.And the Audiotechnology drivers...the cream of the crop.Like higher end Dynaudio Esotar series drivers! This is one seriously world class DIY project.

Keep up the great work.



ib4est,

A show of class,huge yet looking great! Now this is what a serious DIY sub is all about.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #293 of 1130 Old 04-06-2007, 07:07 AM
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Man that finish just makes me more envious.........I feel the jitters now......got me to thinking about painting my towers.....Beautiful project and the one thing I look forward to here these days..Keep us posted.
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post #294 of 1130 Old 04-08-2007, 09:17 AM
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Ok Shino I certainly will never be able to beat your finish. But here is what I have been up to these days to keep my sanity from being taken away by upgrade-itis and The Common DIY. Meet "Shorty". Not meant to be anything spectacular as he just going to compliment some bookshelfs I have in the adjacent room (in the kitchen to be exact, the wife has a cow when I crank them up). He performs solidly at 30 Hz with out any chuffing and little pressure from the port. Like I said nothing big but I wanted to share with my extended DIY fam.

Still looking forward for more from Shino........
LL
LL
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post #295 of 1130 Old 04-08-2007, 02:29 PM
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Amazing Shinobiwan! Great work!

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post #296 of 1130 Old 04-10-2007, 06:53 PM
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Shinobiwan,

I started looking around for AudioTechnology mid-bass drivers...not cheap but used by some of the most elite designs on the market(Verity Audio use them). And the Raal tweeter,I can get them from Solen down here over $700 per tweeter,as well as the Audio Technology drivers!

Looks like you did not cut any corners on drivers.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #297 of 1130 Old 04-17-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ib4est View Post

Shinobiwan's main's are an absolute work of art. That is the most amazing DIY system I've ever seen. Great job!

I posted this over at Home Theater Shack so instead of rewriting it...

"Just wanted to post a solution to "build a sub to end all" that my friend and I did. We were wanting to prove not only that more bass is better, but WAY more BETTER bass is flat out awesome. And we did. Most people that are not HT nuts like us think we ARE nuts and that it is complete overkill...until they listen. Every single person that has heard this system is awe struck and usually makes the comment, "I have never heard anything that good in my life!". We had a space/dimensional issue that we wanted to "fill up" aesthetically all the while designing a powerful and dynamic system. When we looked at all the available subs, we ended up using the Dayton Quatro 15" for a couple reasons. 1-It is very inexpensive, especially when you buy 16 at one time! 2-We were designing a two box system with 8 subs in each cabinet which allowed us to address room mode issues by the sheer nature of the placement of 16 subs (see pics). 3-We had a massive amount of output, Xmax and displacement available without spending a rediculous amount of money on expensive subs and amps.

All told, this system came to a whopping $2,000. Including $450 in 1" MDF (8 sheets) and the CNC routering fee. The boxes were designed in BassBox Pro. 20cu/ft. cabinets with 2 seperate chambers at 10 cu/ft. per 4 subs. 2-6" port tubes for each chamber at 30". One on top and one on bottom tuned to 20hz. Each cabinet weighs around 250lbs w/o the subs. 2 Legion Sound Pro amps rated to 2700 watts bridged 4 ohms. Then we tuned it with a Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124P, REW and a RS Digital Meter.

The results are trully astonishing. 128db @ 25hz (we haven't even turned them up yet). NO ROOM NODES!!! and a perfectly flat house curve all the way up to the PSB Silvers output at 110db. Needless to say the dynamics and output are phenomenal but more importantly, they are very musical and subtle. If you didn't see them, you would know they were their until something big under 80hz happens. Then it's more of a dramatic exclamation point to the scene or music passage than an overbearing, booming bass note.

Hope you guys (and gals?) enjoy seeing our project. We are having a blast with DIY projects like this and hope this one inspires some of you to "go bigger"!

BTW - We built the center channel also with 4 Tag Bands and a Dayton Titanium Dome Tweeter. "

I definitely enjoyed seeing it. Job well done

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
-Rob

My Natalie P project
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post #298 of 1130 Old 05-05-2007, 09:12 PM
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Quote:


Shinobiwan's main's are an absolute work of art. That is the most amazing DIY system I've ever seen. Great job!

WOW! What more can a guy say? And when people say my ? sub rules.
Quote:


Meet "Shorty". Not meant to be anything spectacular as he just going to compliment some bookshelfs I have in the adjacent room (in the kitchen to be exact,

Nice job on the finish, looks great!

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
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post #299 of 1130 Old 05-07-2007, 08:30 AM
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Thanks, even though I think it could have been a bit better with a little more work and it was really my first attempt at doing a paint job. I really appreciate the compliment.
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post #300 of 1130 Old 05-14-2007, 05:55 AM
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The Calipso Line Array

http://pub48.bravenet.com/photocente...31&album=48032

The Calipso Array has been developed on a model that includes the following essential characteristics:

Two 12 inch 15mm Xmax GoldSOund Woofers

34 Sammi 3.3mm X-max, Copper coils, composite paper/fab cone, mid woofers

60 Dayton ND20FA tweeters with flanges cut to a .9 inch Center-to-center distance

Rane Ac-23 Analog Electronic Crossovers, at 165 & 2600

Tri-amplification: 60 w/ch for tweeter array, 150 w/ch mid/woofer array, 350 w/ch woofers

1. Three-Way design.

In point source speaker systems, a two way design is often considered to be an inadequate compromise. Much of audio has gone to two way designs with a single sub woofer. Vance Dickason in his 6th Edition of The Loudspeaker Cookbook has indicated that the use of dual woofers that are capable of subwoofer frequencies produces a significantly better sound image than a subwoofer. In this design a large 12 inch, high mm Xmax woofer is used with each side, and it crosses to the mid ranges at about 165hz. While mine are not currently in the correct size box, the correct size is a 6-8 cu ft vented box.

2. No Crossover in the most sensitive areas of human hearing.

Rod Elliot at Southwest Audio( http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp2.htm ) makes the case better than I:
It is not at all uncommon to see systems where the crossover frequency is set right in the middle of what I call the "intelligence band". This is the range of frequencies from 300Hz to 3600Hz, and is extremely important from a psycho-acoustic point of view.
It is no accident that this is the range of the telephone system (and has been for many years). If we are only to hear a limited range, then this band of frequencies is by far the most important. Just from this we can recognize a person's voice, which musical instrument is being played (even bass instruments!), and - more importantly - what is being said. It contains nearly all the "intelligence" of the sound, which is to say that if this band is "corrupted", intelligibility is greatly reduced.
So why do speaker manufacturers insist on placing their crossover frequencies within this band of frequencies? The public address (PA) systems used by many rock bands are a case in point - how often does one find that the vocals are completely unintelligible? Mind you, it may also be the case that the band's lyrics just don't make sense, but that's another story altogether.
Often this occurs because the system is so loud that the amplifiers are clipping badly, but even at lower levels it is quite common. Place a common-or-garden crossover filter right in the middle of the "intelligence band" and this is exactly what will (and does) happen. With phase aberrations and cancellations, this most important frequency range becomes muddied and indistinct causing loss of intelligibility - not only on voice, but instruments as well.
The effect is also noticeable with some hi-fi speaker systems, except that it usually less pronounced, and it is far less likely that the amplifier will be driven to clipping. Reviewers will often say of a speaker that the vocals seem veiled, or that there is noticeable coloration of either male or female vocals. These effects are often caused by the effects of phase shift around the crossover frequency, coupled with the fact that the crossover frequency falls right in the middle of the intelligence band.
This very hard to do with point source speakers, but with line arrays, the midrange speakers are often loafing along, and if they have the range, pulling the wagon as a group of horses, they can do the job admirably.

3. Use Electrical Crossovers.
Again, passive crossovers are, IMO, a DATED TECHNOLOGY. Passive's introduce so much negative into the sound that they should not be there. And the cost of a top of the line passive cross(with the increased cost of copper) and a electronic is almost the same. Read Rod Elliot's papers on Bi-Amplification and electronic crossovers at http://sound.westhost.com
The only reason for not using them is that you've spent years learning how to design them and you aren't giving that up, or you are in the business of selling speakers and you aren't willing to sell amps and crossovers too.

4. Separate the midrange speakers from all other influences.
Bad coloration of sound, in my opinion, is caused by other sound that the direct radiation coming through the speakers. This means that you have to eliminate ANYTHING that goes out the back of the speaker, and anything that might be in the box behind the speaker from coming forward through the speaker again and muddying the sound clarity. (Some people don't believe that this is impactive.)
To do this, this design uses SEALED separate 4 inch PVC tubes for each of the 34 midrange/mid bass speakers. Each tube is physically separates from its peers by ¾ inch of open air space.
On page 35 of the Dickason 6th Edition Loudspeaker Cookbook, there is an empirical study on the efficiency of various stuffing materials. The greatest attenuation was determined to be at the 4 lb/cu ft density level. Frequencies within the range of the mid/midbass speaker are right within the range of attenuation. Only by using tubes can the appropriate density be achieved, since the insulation can be stuff tightly against the walls of the tube and not push up against the speaker itself. The part closest to the speaker is protected by a layer of sheet pillowfill from the fiberglass threads that might otherwise get into the voice coil.
A recent study by Rod Elliot showed that the smaller the diameter of the fiber the more effective the attenuation. Pillow fill= .01 in, regualr fiberglass=.005 in, Acoustical fiberglass= .001 inch
Additionally there are some benefits of the tube's inability to make even ordered harmonics, or even ordered harmonic distortion, but that will not be addressed here.

This design is labor intense but it helps make the 3 inch midrange speaker process viable.

5. Keep the cost down below $1400 for the speakers, and the required electronics.

6. Keep Comb distortion in the mid and high frequency drivers below Griffin minimums, and use dome tweeter SOUND rather than ribbons or planars, for their flatter frequency response.
The only dome tweeters that I know which have a center to center distance small enough, and at the same time can be crossed low enough, are Dayton Neo ND20FA's. These have their flanges cut so that the c-to-c is .9 inch, and the comb filter distortion doesn't start until more than half way into the last octave, or more than 15,000Khz.

All statements except for referred to studies or references are my opinion.

Marlboro

Youth is wasted on the young. Beauty is wasted on the pretty. Great Speakers are wasted on the deaf.
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