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post #61 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 07:28 PM
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Does the HTIB sub still work? If so hook it back up and run it thought the same test.


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post #62 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

That sounds like pretty impressive performance to me...honestly.

You should try room-eq and run a sweep to see what kind of FR you are getting.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

i have roomeq downloaded and have installed java, but when i try to install roomeq i get this......

"Your Java VM needs to be upgraded before this program can run"
"Would you like detailed help"
i click yes, it takes me to a page, i downloaded java AGAIN, install it. same friggin thing. i can't get it to work and it's starting to make me teste. ha, i said teste.

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post #63 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

Does the HTIB sub till work? If so hook it back up and run it thought the same test.

hahaha. well, i haven't run it throught the same test, but i did toy with it a moment and there is a big difference. the poor thing pretty much begins to dissapear at i think it was around 40hz. i'll run it though, just for poo's and giggles.

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post #64 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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here we go......

onkyo piece-o-crap sub (doesn't contain original driver, swapped it out for a 10" street edge i believe it is, $50 car sub. still better than the original)

reciever volume at 53 (80max)
sub amp gain at 1/2
measurements taken from seating position approx 13ft away

80hz - 92db
60hz - 112db (considerable distortion)
40hz - 93db (lots of port noise)
20hz - 96db (port noise)

when i used this sub it was not uncommon at all to feel large gushes of air sweep over you from the port during heavy bass scenes.

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post #65 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 07:49 PM
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Now the question is, "does the new sub sound better now?"


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post #66 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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of coarse it is much better than the onkyo, which i now see and hear during a a/b comparison. but, it still isn't providing me with the punch in the face, knee to the nuts bass i'm wanting. i will have to build another and perhaps another after that to achieve the levels i want. i want theater levels, concert levels, really, really loud levels of bass.

i also intend to update the mains, but i want to get the bass where i want it for now. i'm still mulling over building mains or purchasing some. i may go buy some insignia's just to tide me over for a while until i build/buy the speakers i really want.

(edit)-also, i unistalled java, reinstalled and am now updating it fully. hopefully room-eq will install and i'll be able to turn out some graphs. they will be completely useless to me as i understand them as much as i do the chinese language. but, they look pretty and you guys can interpret them.

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post #67 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:01 PM
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You just need to build a big LLT sub, dude. That amp puts out more than enough power for a 15" LLT...and it would provide some kickass output, even down to 15Hz.

But you might not have the space for it in your room.
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post #68 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

You just need to build a big LLT sub, dude. That amp puts out more than enough power for a 15" LLT...and it would provide some kickass output, even down to 15Hz.

But you might not have the space for it in your room.

oh i have the space, and if i don't i'll knock out a wall to get it. seriously though, setup is in a 20x20 room and has a nice 4ftx4ft square of space in the front right corner for a sub.

plus, i don't know what in the heck i'd do with my sub now that it's built.

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post #69 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:08 PM
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Doooooo it..dooooo it. That amp already puts out 900W into 4ohms, so just get a driver+build an enclosure, and you'll be set.

Just sell this sub, or use it in another setup like a bedroom system.

I never asked...but is the bass at least pretty musical/tight?
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post #70 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:08 PM
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Quote:


i want theater levels, concert levels, really, really loud levels of bass.

Why didn't you say this 6 threads ago? That's going to take a few 12"s. You are only going to get 3-6db extra per additional driver.


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post #71 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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it's hard to say for me. i'd have to sat down and listen some more. it is distortion free at pretty much everything except really loud levels of very bass heavy passages. and it may not even be the subs fault, but rather the amps inability to keep up. i can't say, perhaps it the fact that it's reproducing the music more accurately than the boomy onkyo and that fact coupled with this being my first sealed sub that i'm adjusting to. i just don't notice it's presence as much as i'd like to in the songs which again relates to it's low output (in my opinion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

Why didn't you say this 6 threads ago? That's going to take a few 12"s. You are only going to get 3-6db extra per additional driver.

my bad.


and on a slightly different note. does anyone know of a good fan to swap into the crest. when it kicks into "high" mode, the thing is louder than the fan/s on my jvc g1000 projector (which i'm sitting right beneath!!!)


(edit)- i'm sitting here listening to foo fighers double disc album, can't think of the name but it's the one that has "best of you" on it and one cd is acoustic. i'm listening to the acoustic disc and the sub sounds nice, not as loud as i want, but very nice. a few more might make their presence known enough that i'd start to grin. and i have to say, for htib speakers these little onkyo bookshelfs do pretty well. but i know there are much better ones out there. i havent ever heard any supurb quality speakers. only stuff like klipsch, infinity, yamaha etc. etc..... so that may also affect my opinion due to the lack of comparison.

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post #72 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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boo ya!!! room-eq is working now, which does me no good because i haven't a clue how to use it.

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post #73 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:32 PM
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Quote:


my bad.

Nah, you just would have been steered away from the 12" drivers 2 months ago. Steve tried to get you to do a 15" LLT way back when, remember. It really sucks that you still need more output. Now you have a tough decision to make. Can you lower the <25hz levels and boost the 60-80hz range with your EQ? That might help.


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post #74 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:34 PM
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Quote:


much as i'd like to in the songs which again relates to it's low output


But you have already posted quite a few measurements showing exactly the opposite. ~100dB at 13ft is not bad at all.

I think that:
Quote:


i can't say, perhaps it the fact that it's reproducing the music more accurately than the boomy onkyo and that fact coupled with this being my first sealed sub that i'm adjusting to." is far more likely.

is far more likely.
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post #75 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

Nah, you just would have been steered away from the 12" drivers 2 months ago. Steve tried to get you to do a 15" LLT way back when, remember. It really sucks that you still need more output. Now you have a tough decision to make. Can you lower the <25hz levels and boost the 60-80hz range with your EQ? That might help.

yeah, i know. i just wanted to try something other than a ported enclosure and since i had a 10" that was doing pretty decent i figured the 12" would rock out plenty. already used all the gain i have out of the eq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

But you have already posted quite a few measurements showing exactly the opposite. ~100dB at 13ft is not bad at all.

I think that:


is far more likely.

prolly right.

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post #76 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:50 PM
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What are the bands on your EQ?

Do you usually listen at these kind of levels?


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post #77 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 08:53 PM
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How do you calibrate the system? Level match the speakers I mean. Do you usually run the sub hot?


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post #78 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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the only three that are usable are 125hz, ~63hz, ~31hz. i generally run the sub a bit hot. and yeah, when i watch a movie, i generally have it cranked up pretty good.

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post #79 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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i am half way considering a crest cpx2600 to try on this thing. this amp kicks out when bridged at 4ohm. i was just listening to music at not very loud levels at all and the friggin amp would kick out. so i tried just going to one channel in stereo mode. it hasn't kicked out but it obviously takes more gain and the quality of sound seems to have suffered quite a bit. i just wonder what a 2200w@4ohm bridged cpx2600 would do with it.

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post #80 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:18 PM
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Play with it for a week or so before you start thinking about changing things. It reads like you have a very impressive sub. ( not talking about the amp)

Unfortunately, you are a bass head, and no one realized it in time. I have two 15"s sitting in my floor right now,and am contemplating two more. I already have two 12"s per main, so I know the bass head pain.

I would also recommend against buying hold over main speakers. It never works out well.


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post #81 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:22 PM
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Quote:


i am half way considering a crest cpx2600 to try on this thing. this amp kicks out when bridged at 4ohm. i was just listening to music at not very loud levels at all and the friggin amp would kick out. so i tried just going to one channel in stereo mode. it hasn't kicked out but it obviously takes more gain and the quality of sound seems to have suffered quite a bit. i just wonder what a 2200w@4ohm bridged cpx2600 would do with it.

I am going to have to suggest you bump up to a Crown, or QSC amp for reliability at these power levels.


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post #82 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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this amp is really starting to piss me off more than anything. it wont even hold at 1/2 volume and the reciever only set to 45 while i listen to music. i put it back into bridged mode and killed the gcl. i dont think it's worth a crap for anything under a 8ohm load, and maybe not even that. either this driver really loves the juice, this amp sucks, or a combo of both.

yeah, but the insig's are so cheap that i wouldnt be out much, would likely get an improvement over my current onkyo's and then i could always use them elsewhere.

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post #83 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

I am going to have to suggest you bump up to a Crown, or QSC amp for reliability at these power levels.

i concur!!!!! i am seriously beginning to believe the crest is the root of some/much of the problems. a better amp might really bring this sub to life.

any amp model recommendations? i just saw a crown powerbase pb3. rated at 1525x1@8ohms. i'm just wondering how it would do in 4ohm load.

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post #84 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:39 PM
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Believe me, the way that Vc is designed, it can really chew up power like its candy!
Good amp suggestions above. The Behringer Ep1500 also looks good for this project. Bridged it puts out a theoretical max of 1400watts at 4 ohms. For $50 more you'll have even more headroom going with the Ep2500.

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
-Rob


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post #85 of 186 Old 08-22-2006, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocer View Post

Believe me, the way that Vc is designed, it can really chew up power like its candy!
Good amp suggestions above. The Behringer Ep1500 also looks good for this project. Bridged it puts out a theoretical max of 1400watts at 4 ohms. For $50 more you'll have even more headroom going with the Ep2500.

yeah, i'm wanting headroom. i want to squeeze every drop out of this driver to see what it will do and so i'll know whether or not to keep it or look into a new project.

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post #86 of 186 Old 08-23-2006, 05:45 AM
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Quote:


i want to squeeze every drop out of this driver to see what it will do and so i'll know whether or not to keep it or look into a new project.

There isn't that much more to squeeze. You're getting pretty close to max driver levels up until the amp shuts down. Remember that the power to SPL level is logarithmic. The next notch up is a 1600w amp. That much power is crazy in this application. What you need is more surface area, I.E. drivers, and an amp that can handle your listening habits.

"I" wouldn't run the Behringer amps bridged at these duty levels. (bridged into a 4ohm driver at +100db levels) Now if you are still planing on "dual somethings" the EP2500 will run at 4ohm a channel all day at 750w. I would decide what I was going to do before buying anymore equipment. That way you don't end up having to buy a third amp later on.

Check out this site for an SPL calculator, your driver is around 87-89db sensitive SPL Calc
It makes more sense to buy more drivers to get an extra ~3db per than to get +3000w amps to get the same output, if you have the room. Especially since the driver cannot handle those power levels anyway.

There is no replacement for displacement.

Two 12's with +700w a piece might get you there(~106db at your seat). I'm pretty sure three would(~109db). Four would have the beginnings of overkill(~112db), just the beginnings though.


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post #87 of 186 Old 08-23-2006, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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i suppose your right, there is no replacement for displacement. i suppose i'm going to start looking for another driver. if anyone is looking for a new sub and cabinet i have one for sale.

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post #88 of 186 Old 08-23-2006, 06:20 PM
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Did you read the last part?
Quote:


Two 12's with +700w a piece might get you there(~106db at your seat). I'm pretty sure three would(~109db). Four would have the beginnings of overkill(~112db), just the beginnings though.

Don't give up on my account.


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post #89 of 186 Old 08-23-2006, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah, i just don't know. i pm'd kyle about the possibility of porting. i know that would give considerable output gain. but i imagine that the port would be so long that i prolly couldn't fit it in the enclosure.

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post #90 of 186 Old 08-23-2006, 06:41 PM
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You could have it sticking out of the top. Smoke stack style.

I have been playing with it in UniBox. I don't know if it's worth it, that box is pretty small. You will have to have a highpass though.


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