Lord of the Bass: The Two Towers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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In the land of Low Frequency Effects, in the fires of Mount SubSonic, the Dark Lord Ssabripo forged in secret a master subwoofer, to control all low frequencies. And into this subwoofer, he poured his Sonotube, his Avalanche 18" XBL^2, and his will to dominate all audible and palpitable senses in these frequency ranges.

"'One Subwoofer to rule them all...
One Subwoofer to bind them in (flat) FR...
...In the Land of LFE where the Subsonic ranges lie...
These two subwoofers shall reproduce them all!'"



But the conquest to conquer the deepest of frequencies, nay deep into the realms of Minas Single digits, called for the return of the one true heir to the throne of LFE: the quad XBL^2 motor king.


Phase I:
Ok, enough of the cheesy intros..... much more info in the upcoming days/weeks. My partner in Crime Chasw98 and I shall begin construction on the towers as soon as time permits and parts are all here. Thus far, I've decided to go with either a 13hz or 12.3 hz tune, but nothing is set in concrete:


The heart and soul of the project has arrived: a Pair of brand new Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" drivers....dont ask how I got them or how much I payed for them....just know that I was lucky enough to land them. For about less than one single LMS5400 I was able to land both of these, so as much as I would have loved to be the first to build a pair of large Low Tuned EBS sonotube LLTs (insert favorite acronym here) using the TC drivers, this is a blessing in the sky that such made to fit drivers like these appeared in the sky! heheh.

Yes, the suckers are HUGE, and if the relatively modest AV15 was able to reproduce bass of the quality and magnitude as my DIY box did, I can only imagine what these two towers will do! Some eye candy for you fellas now:



As I finalize the tune point, and get more parts in, and construction begins at Chuck's, we will post it up for you......

Phase II:
with the towers in full place, we decided to go with a quad sealed setup to try how it would differ not only in output, but also what the acoustic differences would be, and what the extension would be.

Please goto Page 32 (click here) for the rest of the story.

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post #2 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 05:34 PM
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Man oh man, I didn't expect to see that!
I hate you sherv lol...

Well, i cant wait to see this project completed along with your impressions

BTW, Nice eye candy. I haven't seen a naked Ava driver in a few months since its been in a box.

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
-Rob

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post #3 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 06:07 PM
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post #4 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ---k--- View Post

So Sherv,

You're just a Steve Callas wanna-be???

:P

What do you mean wanna-be? I think I just saw Steve run and hide.
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post #5 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 07:11 PM
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Sherv, I suggest you lose the LLT name and call them what they are, EBS. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with! They should be awesome! Big drivers, big boxes, what's not to like?

Dennis H
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post #6 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 08:05 PM
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Stay away from Steve callas, his advice lead to this :

http://www.wolfgame.org/low.JPG
http://www.wolfgame.org/Right.JPG (thats just one of them).
Words alone cannot describe what these things mean to me in terms of improvement over my old HT in-a-box. The best part isnt the music, but when people see it with a weird look on their face, and ask "What the **** is that??"

This simpsons clip explains what the goals of most DIY sonosub builders truely is:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tQyKXj81v4k

ssabripo, keep us updated on the two-towers. Ive always asked myself... what if. What if I bought the 18s, or even something like clarions 34" drivers? regardless, those 18's in a sonosub will claim bragging rights.

Producing the bass that blow out, cause power to go out. (UltraMagnetic MCs)
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post #7 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 08:46 PM
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Sherv, you are my hero.

Now this is going to make me want to go to Chuck's place for sure! Please tell me when construction starts I am DEFINITELY going to be there.

I am in subwoofer withdrawal..... (I have my Rythmik amp being upgraded and HP installed back in Texas..... and four 18" woofers sitting next to me in boxes that I can't use because I am ampless... words alone cannot describe my pain)
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post #8 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 08:47 PM
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So....two Ava18's, huh?

I hate you.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

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post #9 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 08:52 PM
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i see what you did there
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post #10 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

So....two Ava18's, huh?

I hate you.

Hahaha, the collective feeling of everybody on the boards:
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post #11 of 1845 Old 11-24-2006, 09:02 PM
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Sherv,

When you give out the 9 subwoofers to the race of men I want to be one of the recipients

Jeremy Gillow
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post #12 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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hehe...thanks fellas...you guys crack me up.

Most parts are in order....the biggest lagger is the actual 28" sonotube, as it is still a coupl of weeks away

The amp situation is a bit in limbo too as Chuck and I are discussing the EP2500 situation...so we may have to order a new one, or something.
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post #13 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 07:16 AM
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Well...

Over here in Tumultville, we call those drivers AvaLUNCH And, when ya got 8 Tummies...ya got about 12dB headroom over the Twhimp Towers

Make sure that amp you get has no output below 15Hz, you know how those giant tube ported subs are unable to repro the first 2 octaves

Bosso
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post #14 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Well...

Over here in Tumultville, we call those drivers AvaLUNCH And, when ya got 8 Tummies...ya got about 12dB headroom over the Twhimp Towers

Make sure that amp you get has no output below 15Hz, you know how those giant tube ported subs are unable to repro the first 2 octaves

Bosso

Oh snap, Sherv, you gonna take that from him?
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post #15 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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now now Jack....play nice!

surely I wont be able to touch 8 15" tumults with goozles of power and Bassis, variable Q, etc, etc....... But then again, I didn't spend half a mortgage on it

heheh....yes, the amp thing is still in limbo. I'm still eyeing the modded EP2500 as it does a superb job at the price, but I gotta admit that I'm thinking hard about splurging a little and going with this crown K2(what do you think Bosso?):
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/k.htm

yes, a bit overkill, but fanless design, excellent THD and NR levels, and should be able to handle abuse for years.

ps- oh yeah, as far as I'm concerned, there doesn't exist any 8 tumult sealed systems out there....that's all vaporware .....no pics, no believe! hehehehe. C'mon man, send me that info! it's been over a year now!
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post #16 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 07:56 AM
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The return of the King or a King wanna-be?.. I think I'll side with a true King in the making Your only as good as the people around you and the people that serve under you, so I humbly bow my head knowing that your Two Tower's will cut a swath and rule like no Two Tower's ever have.
Quote:


Some eye candy for you fellas now:

I'll say, my eyes are so full of sugar that I can barely write! I only expect it to get worse knowing your propensity in posting pics.
Quote:


ps- oh yeah, as far as I'm concerned, there doesn't exist any 8 tumult sealed systems out there....that's all vaporware .....no pics, no believe! hehehehe. C'mon man, send me that info! it's been over a year now!

mmmm.. You know I never thought of that lol. Bosso????

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post #17 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 10:06 AM
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...Coming soon to a Forum near you

Ssab...you are da man. You'll see it first, I assure you.

I've been hesitant to show pics for reasons that will become immediately obvious when they are published.

1. DriverVu.
2. Thru Vent Cooling.
3. 'T' Finish.
4. The all aluminum Silver Edition.
5. Hourglass 'box'.
6. ReBase/Stereo/Mono LFPreamp/Processor.
7. 2KW SMPS/Class D amp.
8. More you say??...we shall see...

Bosso
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post #18 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

dont ask how I got them

So how'd you get them? Chad eventually cave in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abcdefg View Post

Stay away from Steve callas, his advice lead to this

I take it that's a good thing yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosso View Post

Over here in Tumultville, we call those drivers AvaLUNCH And, when ya got 8 Tummies...ya got about 12dB headroom over the Twhimp Towers

Yeah, yeah. For all intents and purposes, done right, he has more bass capability than he will ever need. I think he'll be more than fine without 1-10hz capability


Three people make single driver Av18 LLT sonosubs, about 6 months between each, and now in the past couple of months (after the drivers have been discontinued for over a year) we get two people building two of them each. What the heck is going on??
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post #19 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

The return of the King or a King wanna-be?.. I think I'll side with a true King in the making Your only as good as the people around you and the people that serve under you, so I humbly bow my head knowing that your Two Tower's will cut a swath and rule like no Two Tower's ever have.

I'll say, my eyes are so full of sugar that I can barely write! I only expect it to get worse knowing your propensity in posting pics.

Well Stevenn....I'm taking your experience in high regard, as you've gone thru several designs in the last year, and you seem to be the happiest with the Sonotubes in terms of SQ....so this better pan out or I have no problems removing the sonotubes and putting them in a sealed enclosure with tons of power/eq/etc, if the SQ is not where I hope it ends up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

...Coming soon to a Forum near you

Ssab...you are da man. You'll see it first, I assure you.

I've been hesitant to show pics for reasons that will become immediately obvious when they are published.

1. DriverVu.
2. Thru Vent Cooling.
3. 'T' Finish.
4. The all aluminum Silver Edition.
5. Hourglass 'box'.
6. ReBase/Stereo/Mono LFPreamp/Processor.
7. 2KW SMPS/Class D amp.
8. More you say??...we shall see...

Bosso

now you are talking! ......but still, you should share some of the goodies with an old friend! The only queues I have are descriptions by Ed Mullen, and visuals by imagining KGveteran's setup x 2 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

So how'd you get them? Chad eventually cave in?

patience, perseverance, and contacts thru IASCA/Car audio days....Chad was instumental in all of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

Three people make single driver Av18 LLT sonosubs, about 6 months between each, and now in the past couple of months (after the drivers have been discontinued for over a year) we get two people building two of them each. What the heck is going on??

In my particular case, I got tired of waiting for the LMS5400, and frankly after doing simulation after simulation, and seeing how much better the ava18 does in this alignment as opposed to the 5400, it was a no brainer. For shits and giggles I would love to have been the early adopter for the TC stuff, but this opportunity i just could not pass by!!
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post #20 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 12:33 PM
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Previous disagreements aside, I hope this turns out great for you. You going all in at 650 effective each, or trimming it down a bit? I noticed from your current sub's measurements that it doesn't look like your room yeilds too much gain down low, so you might wanna consider tuning a bit higher, I dunno.
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post #21 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

Previous disagreements aside, I hope this turns out great for you. You going all in at 650 effective each, or trimming it down a bit? I noticed from your current sub's measurements that it doesn't look like your room yeilds too much gain down low, so you might wanna consider tuning a bit higher, I dunno.

yeah, they will be 600L+ each... 6'x28" sonos each.
As I mentioned, tuning is still not final, but I'm guessing I'll probably go with the 12.3 tune, maybe even lower...I modelled the 11hz and it looks pretty good with a slight decrease in overall headroom (barely noticeable) while yeilding good extension near single digits.

My room is not very acoustically friendly, but it yields slightly better gain down low than originally thought...bass traps and so on helped:
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post #22 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 05:01 PM
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Ah, man, I love your creativity! I wish I had that sort of thing in me - all I could come up with for my subs was Bakers Dozen. BORRRRINNGGG....

600L eh? That's going to take up alot of space. Make sure you post some pics!

Best,
Mark

You guys are crazy....
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post #23 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mrogowski View Post

Ah, man, I love your creativity! I wish I had that sort of thing in me - all I could come up with for my subs was Bakers Dozen. BORRRRINNGGG....

600L eh? That's going to take up alot of space. Make sure you post some pics!

Best,
Mark

Yeah Mark, when the heck are you going to put up some measurements for us to drool over???

Sherv, 6' x 30" wide............
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post #24 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 08:44 PM
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Do you guys ever feel that placement is an issue with such a tall sub ? I know corner loading can be an issue.Just wondering.

KG
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post #25 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you guys ever feel that placement is an issue with such a tall sub ? I know corner loading can be an issue.Just wondering.

KG

that's just one of the many questions I have that I'm waiting to check once I build these things.......as we progress with the completion, and subsequent measurements, etc, I will sure to share it in full detail in this thread.
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post #26 of 1845 Old 11-25-2006, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post

Sherv, 6' x 30" wide............

close, but yeah, you get the picture...they are HUGE suckers:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpos...0&postcount=90
http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachm...achmentid=7923
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post #27 of 1845 Old 11-26-2006, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

close, but yeah, you get the picture...they are HUGE suckers:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpos...0&postcount=90
http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachm...achmentid=7923

Hehehe - I just cannot stop grinning...

My sonosub project pictures all in one place (PS! Norwegian text!)
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post #28 of 1845 Old 11-26-2006, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post

Yeah Mark, when the heck are you going to put up some measurements for us to drool over???

Sherv, 6' x 30" wide............

Yeah, I have to get off my rear and finish these things up. So much stuff on the go though...

You guys are crazy....
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post #29 of 1845 Old 11-26-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:


I'm taking your experience in high regard, as you've gone thru several designs in the last year, and you seem to be the happiest with the Sonotubes in terms of SQ....so this better pan out or I have no problems removing the sonotubes and putting them in a sealed enclosure with tons of power/eq/etc, if the SQ is not where I hope it ends up.

After going through all the work and trouble, I hope for your sake the Brotherhood grows one more strong and you don't find all your efforts sub-Par? If you do recall it was my advice that you build both (LLT, sealed) in your other Thread, but admittedly I base that advice on knowing what my bass needs, propensity and preferences are. With having a BASSIS I can get great bass with either. If a single 18" driver option correlates in difference between a 15" and a 18" as a 12" and a 15" (we know it does) then why two?

Your situation is different than mine, if I'm not mistaken your placement is going to be R-L...in that case the like dual is the only way to go if you want to utilize both drivers. Of course you know that and have decided to try out the LLT option first. I honestly feel your going to be quite impressed! Not just in the Two Towers SPL capability no doubt.. I think your going to be a little taken with the SQ.

If I had to pick the one design over the other it would be the LLT. It might give a little % on music, but imo it's darn close! For HT, well!.. you'll see You did the AV15 over your other option which went very well (if you recall I ran dual) and you have had no regrets no?

You could always build a sealed sono for a test, but know my $$ is respectfully on you favoring the LLT 3 to 1 odds. Anyway I really look forward to going through the build process and your impressions knowing that you'll be very forthcoming in sharing...way man.

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post #30 of 1845 Old 11-26-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

close, but yeah, you get the picture...they are HUGE suckers:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpos...0&postcount=90
http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachm...achmentid=7923

Yeah, you're right, they ARE huge. I thought the largest size they came was 24" though. The company is based here in Winnipeg - I should swing down there for a tour.

Best,
Mark

You guys are crazy....
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