Todd_Zilla's Infinite Baffle Sub Project - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 04-05-2007, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

I just completed my Infinite Baffle installation and have been very pleased with the results. I'm gonna post some pics and a link to a bunch of pics. I originally learned about IB subs here at AVS and then have belonged to the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled for a while. I'm using eight (8), fifteen inch Dayton IB drivers with a Behringer EP2500. Very authoritiative bass...

Thanks to everyone who inspired and educated me along the way... enjoy the pics.


PHOTOS
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post #2 of 46 Old 04-05-2007, 02:50 PM
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linky no worky

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post #3 of 46 Old 04-05-2007, 03:57 PM
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Bummer! Fix that link so we can check it out.

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post #4 of 46 Old 04-05-2007, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 46 Old 04-05-2007, 05:58 PM
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Congrats on a nice project. Great job and great pics too!

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post #6 of 46 Old 04-05-2007, 06:25 PM
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There's something about the look on our faces when we are creating.It says it all !

Great job.......howz it sound ?
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post #7 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys... it sounds awesome... there is a depth of sound that even with my Def Tech powered fronts and center I have never come close to experiencing. The bass pressurizes the room and thumps you in the chest... My wife's response was "holy sh*t!!!"...

I've run AVIA while using my Rat Shack SPL Meter and with the receiver sound level set at 85db average ouput, I am still reading over 100db on the meter at the 20hz level from the listening position, which is as low as the AVIA tones go. I know the RatShack meter isn't all that accurate down in that range, and I'm certainly not an expert at testing, but the important thing to me is that the bass is commanding without being boomy... tons of real headroom for everything I've thrown at it thusfar. War of the Worlds is just flat out amazing... Watched LOTR last night and it's like watching it for the first time. I have been overwhelmed by the performance... Can't say enough about this whole IB experience. For about $1,200 for the equipment and a lot of sweat and effort, this thing not only outperforms any of the Paradigm Servos, SVS Ultras, and other premium subs I've heard at a fraction of the price... I'd be so bold as to say it's in an entirely different level of movie watching experience. Gonna try a little music this morning and see what that is like... I can't express how happy I am with the results...
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post #8 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 06:56 AM
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Excellent! I am glad it has worked out for you.

You make me wish I had that kind of space adjacent to my HT room!

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post #9 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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That is a good point though for those designing and building a media room into a new home design or even a modification to an existing structure (like mine was)... leave yourself baffle space! It can come through the floor, attic, or even an adjoining room... but it could impact the design of the space if it is thought of early enough...
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post #10 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 08:43 AM
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Welcome to the wonderful world of IB. (insert secret handshake here)

120@20@14'
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post #11 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 09:10 AM
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wunderbar! welcome to the club!

how did you paint your ceiling black after it was already installed?
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post #12 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The suspended ceiling tiles were already black... we painted the grid and touched up the sub box after it was installed... just a roller and brush...
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post #13 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 10:16 AM
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very nice Todd! nice aint it? congrats, and post some measurement pics when you get a chance.

so, you are running all 8 drivers off a single EP2500?? wow, I would've gone with at least another one myself, but if it works for ya, more power to you!!!
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post #14 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 10:32 AM
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Good job there fellow Kool Aid drinker. Todd is right Tap that Space, no matter what the shape and even tho 10 times or more VAS is ideal, some of the lower QTS drivers will be OK at 5 times or so.

Sherv,

that is one of the advantages of not backloading the driver. You can get more performance from fewer watts. Modelling a driver in an IB, ported box or small (under 4 times VAS) box, yields almost a doubling of required amplifier power to reach xmax for each design. So 100 for IB is 200 for ported is 400 for small sealed.

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post #15 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Nut View Post

Sherv,

that is one of the advantages of not backloading the driver. You can get more performance from fewer watts. Modelling a driver in an IB, ported box or small (under 4 times VAS) box, yields almost a doubling of required amplifier power to reach xmax for each design. So 100 for IB is 200 for ported is 400 for small sealed.

really?? dude, thanks for that lesson man!

my point is, he is driving 8 daytons!!! Even Chuck with his 4 RL-P15s can "run" with a single EP2500, but guess what he is pushing them with now??

$300 for another EP2500, in order to really make them sing without any effort whatsoever, is well worth it
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post #16 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm running all 8 off of one amp... actually, from what I've learned, in an IB setup, the more drivers you have, the less power you need. I'm running a series/parallel arrangement at an 8 ohm load... and they sing loud and proud.
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post #17 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, check with Thomas W over at the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled about the number of drivers/power... he's the resident expert there. He can explain in great detail about the "why"... I just know it works... ;-)
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post #18 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

I'm running all 8 off of one amp... actually, from what I've learned, in an IB setup, the more drivers you have, the less power you need. I'm running a series/parallel arrangement at an 8 ohm load... and they sing loud and proud.

I have no doubt they do...trust me! I wish I had an attic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Actually, check with Thomas W over at the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled about the number of drivers/power... he's the resident expert there. He can explain in great detail about the "why"... I just know it works... ;-)

Thomas frequents these boards often...we know him very well! He actually spent a lot of time with Chuck in his IB as well and giving some pointers, etc. A single EP2500 ran just fine and very powerful on the 4x15's, but adding a second amp just made it even sweeter....no clipping whatseover even at the highest reference levels.

it was just a thought so no sweat Todd...great looking IB and congrats again.
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post #19 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 11:17 AM
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Todd's drivers are 14.3 xmax whereas Chas drivers are 24.6. Todd's drivers are made for IB while Chas drivers are more likely to be put in a "small" box. Todd's QTS is .65 and Chas has either .33 with dual 2s or .45 with dual 4s. etc.

I modeled them up and Todd's drivers reach xmax at 20 hz with 60 watts while Chas drivers reach xmax at 20 hz with 425 watts.

Todd's are much flatter much lower, albeit at reduced output.

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post #20 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Nut View Post

TTodd's are much flatter much lower, albeit at reduced output.

bingo!

yes, less Xmax, higher Qtc, etc.....and with 8 of the Daytons, I doubt very much he is near driver limits at 8ohms. add a second EP2500 or EP1500, and now he can adjust the gain to find the highest output level prior to driver limit, at reference level.

tis all i'm saying
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post #21 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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ssabripo,

I didn't take it as an insult or sweat it... I love learning all I can about my favorite hobby... If I get any more output, however, I'm afraid the second story of my home will shake off!!!

I've been blowing my ears out all morning listening to music (rap, jazz, blues, little bit of everything) on the system at reference level (receiver set at 0) and I haven't encountered any clipping yet... of course, I won't be able to hear anything for a week, but it's well worth it...

Thanks again everyone for the kind words...
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post #22 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

ssabripo,

I didn't take it as an insult or sweat it... I love learning all I can about my favorite hobby... If I get any more output, however, I'm afraid the second story of my home will shake off!!!

I've been blowing my ears out all morning listening to music (rap, jazz, blues, little bit of everything) on the system at reference level (receiver set at 0) and I haven't encountered any clipping yet... of course, I won't be able to hear anything for a week, but it's well worth it...

Thanks again everyone for the kind words...

indeed!

welcome to the world of IB....its a beautiful thing! Still the king in SQ, with headroom to boot!! I just wish I had an available attic

great stuff man....congrats once again.
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post #23 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this is a really stupid request and has probably been asked a thousand times, but could you guys kinda walk me through the measurement process? I have a Rat Shack SPL meter, Avia DVD, and a Pioneer Elite receiver. I guess what I don't know how to do, or know if I have the capability of, is to generate a tone at a given Hz. AVIA has sweep tones that go from 120Hz down to 20Hz. Is there a disc that has given tone generators at certain frequencies?

Using what I have, do I just make note of the readings when the sweep tone hits a certain frequency? I've done this just watching the readings (not jotting down the numbers), and I think I have a little spike at about 60Hz, but the rest of the readings seem to be pretty constant. What's the best way to do this without professional equipment?
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post #24 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

I know this is a really stupid request and has probably been asked a thousand times, but could you guys kinda walk me through the measurement process? I have a Rat Shack SPL meter, Avia DVD, and a Pioneer Elite receiver. I guess what I don't know how to do, or know if I have the capability of, is to generate a tone at a given Hz. AVIA has sweep tones that go from 120Hz down to 20Hz. Is there a disc that has given tone generators at certain frequencies?

Using what I have, do I just make note of the readings when the sweep tone hits a certain frequency? I've done this just watching the readings (not jotting down the numbers), and I think I have a little spike at about 60Hz, but the rest of the readings seem to be pretty constant. What's the best way to do this without professional equipment?

most of us use REW...all you need is a laptop/PC, a SPL meter, and you are set. Start by reading this forum:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-rew-forum/

there is a link at top to the REW online help file and it walks you through it. We can help more once you get the stuff in place and are ready to get going...i'm sure you will have more specific questions then.
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post #25 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 12:36 PM
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post #26 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Thomas...

Do you know of any programs for Mac?
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post #27 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Hi Thomas...

Do you know of any programs for Mac?

Yea. Windows.

-Eli

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post #28 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Hi Thomas...

Do you know of any programs for Mac?

John M is supposed to be working on a debugged Mac version of Room EQ Wizard. His current version isn't reliable

If you have MS Office for the Mac you can whip up a Excel Chart in a few minutes.
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post #29 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Windows? Why would I want an inferior product? (kidding... don't want to start anything)
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post #30 of 46 Old 04-06-2007, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, the test tones I downloaded from real traps are categorized as 10-19Hz, 20-29Hz, etc... so I don't know how useful this is.

Using the 50Hz tone to set the sound level to 75db, here are the results I get from the listening position. These are UNADJUSTED numbers for the RatShack SPL meter:

10 - 19Hz: 64db

20 - 29Hz: 75db

30 - 39Hz: 83bd

40 - 49Hz: 81db

50 - 59Hz: 79db

60 - 69Hz: 72db

70 - 79Hz: 66db

80 - 89Hz: 64db

90 - 99Hz: 67db

100 - 109Hz: 65db

110 - 119Hz: 71db

120 - 129Hz: 66db
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