DIY Idea....You guys are the experts...would this work - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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OK everyone says DIY....so I'm thinking.....

Goals...HIGH SPL, LOW EXTENSION, HIGH SoundQuality....So basically I want it all.

FIRST--

What if I bought a dual 12inch subwoofer box that was premade such as this one...

http://caraudiofactory.com/dual-sealed-p-95.html

Air Volume 2.12 Cubic Feet Per Sides...

Cost would be about $71 Shipped to me

or do I go ported like this...
http://caraudiofactory.com/dual-slot-ported-p-114.html
# Air Volume 3.47 Cubic Feet Total
# Port Volume .195 Cubic Feet
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second


Dual 12TC-1000 for $170 each = $340 + shipping...so say $400

http://www.tcsounds.com/tc1000.htm

Many people seem to use this woofer with great no complaints....

But how much better is say the TC-2000 or the TC-3000.....will I be able to dig deeper and really pressurize the room better because they say they have more excursion.....and the more air you can push the better...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third....AMP

I could get 2 Bash 300 watt amps and power each by itself at 4 ohms ($300)



So really my total cost would be Under $775 when all is said and done

My question is what do you guys think about this....

What kind of SPL numbers could I expect in say a 2500-3000cubic foot room.....what sort of extension in this sealed configuration? Extension in Ported box? How about SQ...



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post #2 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 09:10 AM
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To do it sealed:

The box is not strong enough

You need EQ

You need more power


Your 16-46 would easily outperform the sealed setup you are talking about.


If you take your same parts list and build some custom ported exclosures, you might be able to achieve your goals.

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post #3 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 09:55 AM
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WAIT A MINUTE!!

What no SVS!?!?!


Hey bg, just doggin' you a little ,

Now you are in the right area! You build a decent DIY project you will never want a commercial sub again.

Why not go with a bigger driver, say 15 or 18"er (or two of each). 12s are good, but if you want something to crush what you have go with a bigger driver and amp.

There are a lot of options. If you are after big SPLs why not build a sonosub with a 15 and 1000 watts or so? It would eat the 16-46+ for lunch...

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post #4 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:15 AM
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mmm....svs subs for lunch....drool.

seriously though, beating the 16-46 down deep is tough to do with a sealed sub, you can do it, but it will cost you some money.

Dual 15" TC 3000s would do nicely in the SQ department and would play super deep, but they roll off slowly for a long time, they would give you a whole lotta output...but a tuned sub would cost less and have even more output and a flatter response, but after the tuning, it spikes right down, whereas the sealed subs just keep sloping down.
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post #5 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

mmm....svs subs for lunch....drool.

seriously though, beating the 16-46 down deep is tough to do with a sealed sub, you can do it, but it will cost you some money.

Dual 15" TC 3000s would do nicely in the SQ department and would play super deep, but they roll off slowly for a long time, they would give you a whole lotta output...but a tuned sub would cost less and have even more output and a flatter response, but after the tuning, it spikes right down, whereas the sealed subs just keep sloping down.


Exactly, your 16-46 is tuned to 16 Hz. After 16 Hz the response drops off VERY quickly. That is the characteristic of a ported design, flatter to the tuning point but steep roll off below that.

In a sealed design it is much slower rolloff but it happens much earlier. That is where EQ combined with power come in. You can make a great sub in a sealed design, but it takes more money and time to provide it with the EQ and power it needs to play that low.

Hence the $2500 and $3500 street prices for the JL113 and DD-18s respectively that are always referenced in the commercial forum.

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post #6 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:24 AM
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You want it all on that budget? Go big and go ported. You like your 16-46 now? Just build a larger low tuned sub(s) using superior driver(s). I'd move up to the 15" TC-1000 since it is not much more and will move much more air. Two of those, with even something like the EP2500, in 280-320liters tuned to 13-14Hz, would be excellllllent.


jpmst3 alluded to it at the end of his last post. And go with a pro-amp for more power for your $$$.
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post #7 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL.....this is just an idea...

Another 16-46+ is going to run me about $900 out the door.

But if I had a simple DIY that would take little effort and less cash that could yield better results I'd do it...

A Sonotube is pretty in depth. I'd need a router and other tools I don't have in order to make it.

I was just wondering if there was a way to make something like the f113 for a fraction of the cost (an increase in size wouldn't bother me either)

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post #8 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

LOL.....this is just an idea...

Another 16-46+ is going to run me about $900 out the door.

But if I had a simple DIY that would take little effort and less cash that could yield better results I'd do it...

A Sonotube is pretty in depth. I'd need a router and other tools I don't have in order to make it.

I was just wondering if there was a way to make something like the f113 for a fraction of the cost (an increase in size wouldn't bother me either)

bg, you could do both. You don't need a router! You can use a jigsaw, you only need those tools if you want to make it really nice. Besides that with the money you can save a router will potentially be free! It is not hat bad, don't sell yourself short, you CAN do it.

You could also do JL type project. See my Simple 18" LMS-5400 project, very basic, very easy....

Or check out TJEli's dual 15" setup or cracky's array...

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post #9 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

LOL.....this is just an idea...

Another 16-46+ is going to run me about $900 out the door.

But if I had a simple DIY that would take little effort and less cash that could yield better results I'd do it...

A Sonotube is pretty in depth. I'd need a router and other tools I don't have in order to make it.

I was just wondering if there was a way to make something like the f113 for a fraction of the cost (an increase in size wouldn't bother me either)

Why do people want an F113 when you could have much better?!?

Sonotube sub is possibly the easiest thing to do. I don't doubt you can ask someone on these forums to do the endcaps for you if you ask them because that is the only thing you need to cut. Let the box size increase and so will the performance.
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post #10 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

You want it all on that budget? Go big and go ported. You like your 16-46 now? Just build a larger low tuned sub(s) using superior driver(s). I'd move up to the 15" TC-1000 since it is not much more and will move much more air. Two of those, with even something like the EP2500, in 280-320liters tuned to 13-14Hz, would be excellllllent.


jpmst3 alluded to it at the end of his last post. And go with a pro-amp for more power for your $$$.


Can you find a PREBUILT ported box that would suit them

The key is prebuilt....I dont mind putting everything together and doing all the wiring.....but the building part is just not something I want to tackle right now..

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post #11 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Can you find a PREBUILT ported box that would suit them

The key is prebuilt....I dont mind putting everything together and doing all the wiring.....but the building part is just not something I want to tackle right now..

All you need is the specs for size and port. You can always have your local car audio or cabinet shop build the box for you....

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post #12 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Can you find a PREBUILT ported box that would suit them

The key is prebuilt....I dont mind putting everything together and doing all the wiring.....but the building part is just not something I want to tackle right now..

No, sadly you can't. Your choices are A) Find a DIYer who would be willing to do a lot of the work for you for something (money, beer, whatever)

B) Pay a cabinet builder or a car audio shop build an enclosure for you.

If you lived anywhere near me, I'd totally hook you up since I have two extra sonotube pieces that would work great for this purpose.
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post #13 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

bg, you could do both. You don't need a router! You can use a jigsaw, you only need those tools if you want to make it really nice. Besides that with the money you can save a router will potentially be free! It is not hat bad, don't sell yourself short, you CAN do it.

You could also do JL type project. See my Simple 18" LMS-5400 project, very basic, very easy....

Or check out TJEli's dual 15" setup or cracky's array...

WOW...jpmst3 that is one nice homemade subwoofer

But I saw your tool list and $1600 price cost.



I could use a jigsaw and just cut out round end caps? Then Glue and screw them down?

To make a sonotube....how much would I be talking...

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post #14 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

WOW...jpmst3 that is one nice homemade subwoofer

But I saw your tool list and $1600 price cost.



I could use a jigsaw and just cut out round end caps? Then Glue and screw them down?

To make a sonotube....how much would I be talking...

Sonotube is CHEEEEP!

$600 with everything
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post #15 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

WOW...jpmst3 that is one nice homemade subwoofer

But I saw your tool list and $1600 price cost.



I could use a jigsaw and just cut out round end caps? Then Glue and screw them down?

To make a sonotube....how much would I be talking...

But, my point is you could have that type of cabinet built for you, not that costly either.

A piece of sonotube might run $50-$100 depending on diameter. One sheet of MDF is less than $20. Some other misc stuff, say $50.

Also, $1600 inlcudes everything, remember I am comparing that cost to JL113 and DD-18 which the LMS will potentially outperform them both...comparitively speaking it is cheap!

Yes, you could use a jigsaw and cut them out, you just need to be reasonably neat with the cutting. Sand a little to make them better and viola! Trust me, the SVS sonosubs are not rocket science. Ron and Tom got their start in DIY doing the same thing...

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post #16 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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So I could have a sonotube....Subwoofer and amp everything for $600...

hmmmmm

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post #17 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

So I could have a sonotube....Subwoofer and amp everything for $600...

hmmmmm

And you could up that budget by ~$150 and you can put in a massive 18" driver from FI car audio which is very similar to the avalanche series of drivers.
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post #18 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

So I could have a sonotube....Subwoofer and amp everything for $600...

hmmmmm

Potentially, sure.

IMO, it is easier to shoot for the same budget, but get twice the performance (or more). Don't misunderstand me, it is easy to save money in DIY. But, if you are prepared to spend $900 for a commercial sub, I would get the best driver an amp combo you can then decide on an enclosure. You could get a killer amp for around $300 and say $200-$350 for a great driver and another say $150 in enclosure and misc parts. It might come out to close to the same cost, but the performance will be in another realm.

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post #19 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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So what would be your optimal Tuned sonosub.

10hz? 12hz? 14hz? 16hz?

Or LOWER than 10hz??

(yes i'm playing with the calculator and looking up information....this might be doable...

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post #20 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:06 AM
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It depends on the driver and the enclosure. Very few are tuned below 12Hz. Most are seemingly tuned around 14-16Hz.

Ideally you could tune as low as possible but still have ample output in the mid-bass range, but that is hard to do without multiples or a really good driver.
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post #21 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

So what would be your optimal Tuned sonosub.

10hz? 12hz? 14hz? 16hz?

Or LOWER than 10hz??

(yes i'm playing with the calculator and looking up information....this might be doable...

I would go with a killer driver, even 18"er and tune to 15 hz and blow your SVS into the weeds (pardon the pun)!

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post #22 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I would go with a killer driver, even 18"er and tune to 15 hz and blow your SVS into the weeds (pardon the pun)!

Not to mention how he could now have the highest dB's in his listening test threads
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post #23 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Crackyflipside

Its not just about having the highest DB....I just want the cleanest sound I can get with the flattest response.

Ideally I'd like to have about 120db from 16hz to 80hz flat

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post #24 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Crackyflipside

Its not just about having the highest DB....I just want the cleanest sound I can get with the flattest response.

Ideally I'd like to have about 120db from 16hz to 80hz flat

Sell your current subs and up the budget then.
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post #25 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Crackyflipside

Its not just about having the highest DB....I just want the cleanest sound I can get with the flattest response.

Ideally I'd like to have about 120db from 16hz to 80hz flat

If you want the cleanest sound, sell your other 16-46 and build two.

More drivers, equals less distortion, although a good 18 would be equal to 2-4 of your 12" plus drivers...

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post #26 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

Crackyflipside

Its not just about having the highest DB....I just want the cleanest sound I can get with the flattest response.

Ideally I'd like to have about 120db from 16hz to 80hz flat

You're on the right track.

Two 15" TC-2000s, each in ~320liters tuned to 14-15Hz with enough power behind them should accomplish that in-room.
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post #27 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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So people really seem to think the TCsounds is the way to go ....

So why the 15inch TC-2000 over the 15inch TC-1000

$300 vs $180.....is it worth the extra cash?

Why not step up to the TC-3000...(47lbs monster)

Only $385...


Are there other DIY subs that are in that price range that are better, or bigger (18inch)....or is 15inch the way to go?

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post #28 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:55 AM
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You could also get a Sound Splinter 15d2 or d4. Get two of those. LLT them....and you're set!

Or you can get two SS 18's, like me and put em in >20ft^3 sonos!

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #29 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

So people really seem to think the TCsounds is the way to go ....

So why the 15inch TC-2000 over the 15inch TC-1000

$300 vs $180.....is it worth the extra cash?

Why not step up to the TC-3000...(47lbs monster)

Only $385...


Are there other DIY subs that are in that price range that are better, or bigger (18inch)....or is 15inch the way to go?

Certain drivers are better suited for ported or sealed designs. The 1000/2000 work better ported, the 3000s better sealed.

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post #30 of 81 Old 04-18-2007, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Scott now we are getting crazy. LOL If I do something it will be either a single 15inch SONO or an 18inch SONO...

Is this my cheapest, easiest, most effective option...or should I do a box?



Seriously though...what is LLT?

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